AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Umineko

Notices

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 2011-12-25, 21:40   Link #5181
unsuspectingvisitor
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by UsagiTenpura View Post
Yeah that's also what I think.
Erika traps Battler with a ring./George traps Shannon with a ring.
And if you want speculation...
Battler fakes the first twilight./Beatrice fakes the fight twilight.
Erika really murders them./George really murders them.
Battler is stuck in a closed room and Erika is dangerously coming for him./Beatrice is stuck on Rokkenjima and George is dangerously coming for her.
The Shkanon trick is used to save Battler from Erika./The Shkanon trick is used to save Shannon from George.
Erika was trying to get the Gamemaster title and ring from Battler./George was trying to get the Ushiromiya heir title and ring from Shannon.
Battler kills Erika./Beatrice kills George.
SO does that mean George is the culprit?
unsuspectingvisitor is offline  
Old 2011-12-25, 22:30   Link #5182
AuraTwilight
The True Culprit
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The Golden Land
Send a message via AIM to AuraTwilight Send a message via MSN to AuraTwilight
It's possible.
__________________
When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4565173&postcount=531
AuraTwilight is offline  
Old 2011-12-26, 03:02   Link #5183
unsuspectingvisitor
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Battler said he was going to prove that he understood everything. Maybe he did that by telling us what the culprit is capable of without revealing his identity.
unsuspectingvisitor is offline  
Old 2011-12-26, 03:25   Link #5184
AuraTwilight
The True Culprit
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The Golden Land
Send a message via AIM to AuraTwilight Send a message via MSN to AuraTwilight
Possible, but since the wording is that he would prove he understood "Beato's game", I would say that he demonstrated this through performing and understanding Beatrice's magic, reviving her through deception and desperation.
__________________
When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4565173&postcount=531
AuraTwilight is offline  
Old 2011-12-26, 03:38   Link #5185
unsuspectingvisitor
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
You're right. Maybe he was only talking about "Beatrice's game" or should i say the "Epitaph murder game".
unsuspectingvisitor is offline  
Old 2011-12-26, 03:41   Link #5186
AuraTwilight
The True Culprit
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The Golden Land
Send a message via AIM to AuraTwilight Send a message via MSN to AuraTwilight
The context given was "Beatrice's Game" as in the gameboards. Anything like the "Epitaph murder game" isn't supported enough to be viable.
__________________
When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4565173&postcount=531
AuraTwilight is offline  
Old 2011-12-26, 03:56   Link #5187
unsuspectingvisitor
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
The context given was "Beatrice's Game" as in the gameboards. Anything like the "Epitaph murder game" isn't supported enough to be viable.
I not sure about that. Not every gameboard was Beatrice's game. Only 2 was confirm Ep1 and Ep2 gameboards.

But there's a hint that he was taking about the "Epitapt murder game". He showed us that the first twilight victim was faking their deaths and Ep6 gameboard was the only game that explicitly told us that the first twilight murder was fake.
unsuspectingvisitor is offline  
Old 2011-12-26, 04:00   Link #5188
AuraTwilight
The True Culprit
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The Golden Land
Send a message via AIM to AuraTwilight Send a message via MSN to AuraTwilight
Well, they're all "Beatrice's game" because she created the gameboard and the rules and the setting and the story. It's like how Dungeons and Dragons is "Gary Gygax's game" even though he doesn't personally run every game session played across the world.
__________________
When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4565173&postcount=531
AuraTwilight is offline  
Old 2011-12-26, 04:18   Link #5189
unsuspectingvisitor
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
Well, they're all "Beatrice's game" because she created the gameboard and the rules and the setting and the story. It's like how Dungeons and Dragons is "Gary Gygax's game" even though he doesn't personally run every game session played across the world.
But the whole focal point of every Game board was the "Everyone died" theme that caused by Beatrice and her "Epitapt murder game".

Wait.. i think were on the same page here.
unsuspectingvisitor is offline  
Old 2011-12-26, 04:23   Link #5190
AuraTwilight
The True Culprit
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The Golden Land
Send a message via AIM to AuraTwilight Send a message via MSN to AuraTwilight
IS it the focal point? We can't honestly say that for sure.

Anyway, the point isn't about the CONTENT so much about the construction and execution. Battler isn't demonstrating he knows the truth, here (how could he, when he's running a game with Erika in it?) he's running a game from Beatrice's point of view to demonstrate that he understands HER and how her game works. That's more important.
__________________
When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4565173&postcount=531
AuraTwilight is offline  
Old 2011-12-26, 04:37   Link #5191
unsuspectingvisitor
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Well you're right about that. I don't have any rebuttal for that so i'll stop now.

I am finally done with EP6 and now on to the next EP.
unsuspectingvisitor is offline  
Old 2012-01-10, 19:08   Link #5192
Toku
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Would anyone be willing to share theories on the logic error? I'm stuck, I just don't see how it's even possible...
Toku is offline  
Old 2012-01-10, 19:14   Link #5193
AuraTwilight
The True Culprit
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The Golden Land
Send a message via AIM to AuraTwilight Send a message via MSN to AuraTwilight
What do you mean? There's a lot of parts to the Logic Error subject, what specifically is giving you trouble? Like, how Beatrice solved it?
__________________
When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4565173&postcount=531
AuraTwilight is offline  
Old 2012-01-10, 19:20   Link #5194
Toku
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Yeah. I understand the theory with the window, but Kanon wasn't even in that room. And despite that, Beatrice's logic not only allows Kanon to leave the room in the guesthouse, but to also free Battler and then escape himself, leaving no one in the room. The door must be used in some way, in order to escape. There should be no method of getting around that... And yet, the chain lock absolutely must be set, and it must be set from the inside. And there's no one in the room?

Are they busting holes in the walls, or what? Technically, I think that would bypass the duct tape seals, but...
Toku is offline  
Old 2012-01-10, 20:22   Link #5195
AuraTwilight
The True Culprit
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The Golden Land
Send a message via AIM to AuraTwilight Send a message via MSN to AuraTwilight
The trick is that Kanon WAS in the room with the window...by virtue of being Shannon. As 'Kanon', she runs and saves Battler, sets the chain, and hides. Then she becomes 'Shannon' so that 'Kanon does not exist in this room'.
__________________
When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4565173&postcount=531
AuraTwilight is offline  
Old 2012-01-10, 20:28   Link #5196
Toku
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
The trick is that Kanon WAS in the room with the window...by virtue of being Shannon. As 'Kanon', she runs and saves Battler, sets the chain, and hides. Then she becomes 'Shannon' so that 'Kanon does not exist in this room'.
It'd be nice if it was that easy. However, that window can't be used, right? Even if it's Shannon. At the time that Beato reconfigured the logic, the use of that window was still forbidden.
Toku is offline  
Old 2012-01-10, 20:34   Link #5197
LyricalAura
Dea ex Kakera
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toku View Post
It'd be nice if it was that easy. However, that window can't be used, right? Even if it's Shannon. At the time that Beato reconfigured the logic, the use of that window was still forbidden.
But the thing that was actually forbidden was "the use of blue truths involving the window." Beato cleverly got around it by creating a mystery to reverse the burden of proof, so that it became Erika's responsibility to create blue truths instead of hers.
__________________
"Something has fallen on us that falls very seldom on men; perhaps the worst thing that can fall on them. We have found the truth; and the truth makes no sense."
LyricalAura is offline  
Old 2012-01-10, 21:49   Link #5198
Toku
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
I could try and argue against this by saying that all people can only use their own names, but there's the possibility that "people" there doesn't refer to bodies but rather to personalities. At a glance, I don't think there's a red that denies that... And while I had thought that Beato actually denied the possibility of anyone being in the room after all is said and done, she only denied the possibility that Kanon is inside...

Not only that, but since it's a fact that Kanon went in, let Battler out, and set the chain lock behind him, he could not physically leave the room (the red that Beato used prevented anyone else from entering or leaving the room)... So it simply has to be referring to personalities, as far as I can tell.

And it wasn't said in red that Kanon is actually in the cousins' room in the guesthouse, only that "everyone else" is. How tricky.

...I had been hoping for a more satisfying answer, but this is acceptable.

One last thing though. The hint "without love, it cannot be seen" was supposed to refer to this solution, but how does that work? I don't see anything here that refers to love...
Toku is offline  
Old 2012-01-10, 21:53   Link #5199
AuraTwilight
The True Culprit
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The Golden Land
Send a message via AIM to AuraTwilight Send a message via MSN to AuraTwilight
Quote:
I could try and argue against this by saying that all people can only use their own names, but there's the possibility that "people" there doesn't refer to bodies but rather to personalities. At a glance, I don't think there's a red that denies that... And while I had thought that Beato actually denied the possibility of anyone being in the room after all is said and done, she only denied the possibility that Kanon is inside...
there's no problem with that because, being the same person, 'Sayo' (or whatever you want to call her) owns the names of Shannon AND Kanon.

Quote:
Not only that, but since it's a fact that Kanon went in, let Battler out, and set the chain lock behind him, he could not physically leave the room (the red that Beato used prevented anyone else from entering or leaving the room)... So it simply has to be referring to personalities, as far as I can tell.
It's also possible Kanon ceased existing in the room by dying, of course.

Quote:
One last thing though. The hint "without love, it cannot be seen" was supposed to refer to this solution, but how does that work? I don't see anything here that refers to love...
It requires understanding the true nature of Beatrice's heart. Namely, that she, Shannon, and Kanon are the same individual.
__________________
When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4565173&postcount=531
AuraTwilight is offline  
Old 2012-01-11, 07:10   Link #5200
Captain Bluebeard
Detective, Witch, Pirate.
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ruins of the Golden Land
Even more than that, it requires love to see magic. Without love, it's nothing more than a trick, it's just one person acting the parts of two, and that wouldn't work here, would it?
Captain Bluebeard is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 18:27.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.