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Old 2010-01-12, 09:01   Link #781
MeoTwister5
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Short summary for today. I should have time for more summaries starting tomorrow.

Beato1 vs. Natsuhi Ushiromiya

Spoiler for Ep6 summaries:


This all makes me confused: Is the cloaked Battler who appears in the trial a sort of Piece Battler for the game or the actual Meta Battler? Frankly I find his change of heart a bit too sudden, plus it seems like he's having a direct hand on the game he made.

Also, the two demons say there are six lovers in this trial, which would relate to six sacrifices, and I assume Battler himself (cloaked Battler, whether he's a piece or Meta Battler) is the sixth person. I didn't include the part where Battler talks about his sacrfice because I wasn't sure of the translation:

Spoiler for spoiler?:
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Old 2010-01-12, 09:59   Link #782
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You are correct. Also, he did say

Spoiler for Ep 6:
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Old 2010-01-12, 13:14   Link #783
Antera Caramichael
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Hum, I just remembered... why did
Spoiler for Episode 6 spoiler:


The answer is:
Spoiler for Episode 6 spoiler:


Spoiler for Spoiler 1-6:
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Old 2010-01-12, 13:39   Link #784
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I really enjoyed episode 6. Imo, it is probably the best episode this far (yes, even better than banquet) on the meta part... Found it a little lacking on the game board though...

Spoiler for maybe spoilerish material, tagging for safety:
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Old 2010-01-12, 14:35   Link #785
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
Spoiler for Ep6 summaries:
Spoiler for Some possible corrections:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Antera Caramichael View Post
The answer is:
Spoiler for Episode 6 spoiler:
It wasn't about Battler not suspecting his family. Battler no longer has to suspect anyone, as he's already reached the truth. What Featherine said was that Battler wouldn't show that truth, because he doesn't want to make his family look like murderers.
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Old 2010-01-12, 19:03   Link #786
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Originally Posted by ~Pyro~ View Post
From what I understood, yes. But, then again, I am using Atlas and AGTH...
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Originally Posted by Smeckledorf View Post
The answer is yes.
Spoiler for game end - still noob comments:
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Old 2010-01-12, 19:10   Link #787
Marion
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Originally Posted by TsundereCake View Post
Spoiler for game end - still noob comments:
Battler does not decide to treat her as his daughter and they do marry.

The game says that the newBeato is similar to an amnesiac Beato. She can't remember anything about herself, nor about who she was. By the end of the game she is very much like our old Beato. Still I do agree with you. Even if the game says that she's an egg Beato, to me she feels like a complete replacement. It reminds me a lot of Kinzo's love - he loved her so much he always tried to revive her.

EP 6's romantic aspect when it comes to BatBeato is very much grimdark - its very depressing in a way. The ending of it all however feels too forced. "Hey we just beat the big bad, lets get married!" Ryukishi cannot write romances. He either goes too tragic or too sappy. There never seems to be any in between from what I've seen. If I had to pick an in between couple it would probably be Hideyoshi/Eva and Kyrie/Rudolf. Although the former does go a bit tragic when Eva goes pretty much nuts after George and Hideyoshi die, and we don't know enough about the latter's relationship from Rudolf's standpoint - so far we only have Kyrie's opinion and a bit of Battler's.
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Old 2010-01-12, 19:26   Link #788
TsundereCake
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Originally Posted by Marion View Post
Battler does not decide to treat her as his daughter and they do marry.

The game says that the newBeato is similar to an amnesiac Beato. She can't remember anything about herself, nor about who she was. By the end of the game she is very much like our old Beato. Still I do agree with you. Even if the game says that she's an egg Beato, to me she feels like a complete replacement. It reminds me a lot of Kinzo's love - he loved her so much he always tried to revive her.

EP 6's romantic aspect when it comes to BatBeato is very much grimdark - its very depressing in a way. The ending of it all however feels too forced. "Hey we just beat the big bad, lets get married!" Ryukishi cannot write romances. He either goes too tragic or too sappy. There never seems to be any in between from what I've seen. If I had to pick an in between couple it would probably be Hideyoshi/Eva and Kyrie/Rudolf. Although the former does go a bit tragic when Eva goes pretty much nuts after George and Hideyoshi die, and we don't know enough about the latter's relationship from Rudolf's standpoint - so far we only have Kyrie's opinion and a bit of Battler's.
*Phew* I'm glad that was fake

Leave it to a moe-lover to screw up romance
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Old 2010-01-12, 19:39   Link #789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marion View Post
Battler does not decide to treat her as his daughter and they do marry.

The game says that the newBeato is similar to an amnesiac Beato. She can't remember anything about herself, nor about who she was. By the end of the game she is very much like our old Beato. Still I do agree with you. Even if the game says that she's an egg Beato, to me she feels like a complete replacement. It reminds me a lot of Kinzo's love - he loved her so much he always tried to revive her.

EP 6's romantic aspect when it comes to BatBeato is very much grimdark - its very depressing in a way. The ending of it all however feels too forced. "Hey we just beat the big bad, lets get married!" Ryukishi cannot write romances. He either goes too tragic or too sappy. There never seems to be any in between from what I've seen. If I had to pick an in between couple it would probably be Hideyoshi/Eva and Kyrie/Rudolf. Although the former does go a bit tragic when Eva goes pretty much nuts after George and Hideyoshi die, and we don't know enough about the latter's relationship from Rudolf's standpoint - so far we only have Kyrie's opinion and a bit of Battler's.
I always felt that romance wasn't his strong point... I guess it's even more apparent in EP6 though since this game is basically based around it? O.o
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Old 2010-01-12, 19:58   Link #790
Marion
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Originally Posted by Maho Momo View Post
I always felt that romance wasn't his strong point... I guess it's even more apparent in EP6 though since this game is basically based around it? O.o
Romance is a major motif in the game (without love, etc etc). But I do think that it isn't his strong point. Since the game was going to focus on the story more I was anticipating major character and story development, but really didn't see that. The game cleared up minor things and we got a revival of Beatrice a game after she died. I would have waited until EP 7 to bring her back, even though she is a favorite character, because her entire death feels cheap. Not that Battler completely brought her back, but still.

Then again the two lover pairs get development from each other. If you notice Jessica is never properly developed without Kanon involved and the same goes for him. Shannon and George also have a similar issue with that, which is maybe why I don't like them as standalone characters.
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Old 2010-01-12, 20:03   Link #791
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marion View Post
Ryukishi cannot write romances. He either goes too tragic or too sappy. There never seems to be any in between from what I've seen. If I had to pick an in between couple it would probably be Hideyoshi/Eva and Kyrie/Rudolf. Although the former does go a bit tragic when Eva goes pretty much nuts after George and Hideyoshi die, and we don't know enough about the latter's relationship from Rudolf's standpoint - so far we only have Kyrie's opinion and a bit of Battler's.
I always figured that the young couples' romances were intentionally written bad and overly sappy, especially since the relationships between the adults are written so realistically.

As for Bat/Beato, I'll have to see for myself, but it doesn't sound that terrible.
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Old 2010-01-12, 20:13   Link #792
Marion
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
I always figured that the young couples' romances were intentionally written bad and overly sappy, especially since the relationships between the adults are written so realistically.

As for Bat/Beato, I'll have to see for myself, but it doesn't sound that terrible.
I don't see why he would intentionally write a couple badly, when he's obviously pushing it as their loves will last forever (well besides Kanon and Jessica, which this game sorta implies is due to fail by Shannon and George's victory)

Don't get me wrong, I love the pairing. It's just too grimdark.
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Old 2010-01-12, 20:19   Link #793
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by Marion View Post
I don't see why he would intentionally write a couple badly, when he's obviously pushing it as their loves will last forever (well besides Kanon and Jessica, which this game sorta implies is due to fail by Shannon and George's victory)
I've always interpreted those two relationships as only existing in fake/magic scenes... George and Shannon are far, far too perfect, and from what I've heard of the Kanon/Jessica relationship this episode, it's painfully unrealistic and saccharine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marion View Post
Don't get me wrong, I love the pairing. It's just too grimdark.
I don't mind this at all.
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Old 2010-01-12, 20:26   Link #794
Raiza Sunozaki
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I agree with Kaisos on this point. Whenever I read the George/Shannon scenes, the fanboy side of me was in constant "awwwww" but the sensible, logical half wouldn't shut up on how cheesy it was. It was about the same with Jessica/Kanon, but you have to condescend that it is really, really hard to write a teenage romance that does not sound sappy.
On the other hand, the interactions between couples like Rudolf and Kyrie felt really well-done to me. Here's a man who like to go off and frolic, and the one woman who can "handle his reins." The interactions between the two always feel fitting and mature (as mature as you can get with Rudolf's childishness).
So I've got to agree that the sappy scenes with the teens are intentional by Ryuukishi. So I've got a feeling that the coupling of Egg-Beato and Battler will work well.
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Old 2010-01-12, 21:31   Link #795
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TsundereCake View Post
Spoiler for game end - still noob comments:
I pretty much agree.
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Old 2010-01-12, 21:39   Link #796
Raiza Sunozaki
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Originally Posted by TsundereCake View Post
Spoiler for game end - still noob comments:
You have to consider what it means to be revived. Beato, as the specific existence that Battler fought against in 1-4 and for in 5, is dead. Completely, utterly dead. And no matter how hard he tries, Battler will never be able to revive that specific existence. But if the Egg-Beato he created grows up with exactly the same one thousand years of experiences the original Beato did, she will become exactly like her.
It's not perfect, but I find it a satisfying alternative.
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Old 2010-01-12, 21:59   Link #797
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Could someone explain what's the logic error thing?
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Old 2010-01-12, 22:06   Link #798
Marion
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Could someone explain what's the logic error thing?
If you're asking then I'm guessing you didn't play the game I'm sure Klash said before this was a discussion thread, not a spoiler thread.
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Old 2010-01-12, 22:12   Link #799
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Indeed, sorry for asking.
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Old 2010-01-12, 22:27   Link #800
ameskitty
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Sappiness in the relationships as an intentional plot point? I've always believed that the Shannon/George sappiness was intentional. That's why I don't have a lot of trouble accepting Shannontrice. I never saw any substance at all in their relationship at all minus them both wanting a family . No couple can love each other that much, at least in my opinion, and that's why I've always felt that it was a lie. And if they do they need a significant background, which I don't think they've had. As far as we know they don't do "loving couple-y" things like hugging or kissing, either.

Jessica and Kanon...hrm. I agree - first love stories tend to be sappy no matter who writes them. Anyways, I've always seen substance in those two - to spare a wall of text I'll say it mostly has to do with how they're very similar characters in dissimilar ways. Which also gives them a reason to get the bulk of their development through each other, since without those similar traits Kanon's just an emo servant kid and Jessica's just an infatuated adolescent. They've also had clashes with their personalities/duties in the past and given their natures will probably will have them in the future - a healthy relationship always faces these conflicts, and whether or not it survives depends on how the conflicts are resolved. I even saw hints of what probably would've been an argument before Kanon brought out the brooch (mostly in Jessica's insistence that their being together should make Kanon's furniture issues just "go away"). I've never got any sort of feeling like that from George and Shannon - heck, in the scene where I think there should've been some sort of argument between them (particularly when George hinted that Shannon didn't seem as happy as she was 6 years ago), Shannon was all smiles. That's just suspicious to me, which is why I didn't roll my eyes as much as I could have.

Anyways...tldr I think in their case there's at least a bit of substance and most of the sappiness there is due to their ages and weak writing. I mean I like the pairing and all but the whole sun thing took it a little too far .

And if GeorgexShannon doesn't turn out to be fake I think I'll have to have a trashcan nearby when I reread all of their "deep love" scenes . Because then it really would be bad writing.
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