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Old 2010-01-08, 07:16   Link #21
felix
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Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
...that's because they're both designed to go in the water.
The point was, they both look the same even though they are light years away as far as technological advancement goes.
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Old 2010-01-08, 14:02   Link #22
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Technically though, the technology used in a WWI era Torpedo and a modern torpedo is relatively minimal, with improvements in guidance systems and engines. The shape itself however is, as mentioned, because the "teardrop" configuration is found to be one of the most efficient shapes in reducing drag in underwater travel (although this was only confirmed decades later by marine engineers when developing the US Navy's next generation nuclear submarines, leading to their characteristic "Albacore" shape). If it ain't broke, why fix it?

One can say that the technology in Leiji Matsumoto's stories is so advanced that they can design their machines to look like anything they wanted without sacrificing performance and safety (afterall, form follows function), still a space-faring vessel that is 90% physical identical to a water-faring battleship is still a big imaginative stretch, like space trains looking and acting like steam locomotives complete with belching out smoke, given that spacecraft and sea vessels have vastly different engineering requirements and considerations. That is the charm of Matsumoto's work though
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Old 2010-01-08, 15:42   Link #23
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^ supposedly its a ship because its designed to land on water (which is not a bad idea I guess, Bebop did it too).
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Old 2010-01-08, 15:55   Link #24
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Well, the Bebop didn't go so far as to actually look like a WWII battleship, it just had a boat-like hull to accomodate said function.
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Old 2010-02-10, 12:28   Link #25
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Takuya Kimura takes pay cut to fund 'Space Battleship Yamato' revisions

I don't know if I should be happy about this or not...
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Old 2010-02-10, 20:15   Link #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
Technically the warship of the era of when Yamato was made looked like this.


But hey, it's not like a space World war 2 battleship is inherently sillier than most of the other ship designs you see.

...that's because they're both designed to go in the water.
Uh not to be picky but that's an aircraft carrier.
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Old 2010-02-11, 00:01   Link #27
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Uh not to be picky but that's an aircraft carrier.
Don't you think he knows that? It's still considered a Warship.
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Old 2010-02-12, 09:47   Link #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
Technically the warship of the era of when Yamato was made looked like this.
Actually the Iowa class battleship were still in service at that time, since they were decommissioned only during the 90's, and were even used during the 1st Gulf War. Other major navies such as the French and British still had battleships during the 60's, so they weren't exactly a distant memory by the time the story was written.
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Old 2010-02-13, 13:44   Link #29
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Don't you think he knows that? It's still considered a Warship.
Yeah,but he's talking about a battleship! Which Aircraft Carriers ain't!! Never mind JMvS just mentioned the Iowa class,which were the Yamato's nemisis'.
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Old 2010-02-13, 17:05   Link #30
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Looks impressive. Hope this movie will be a succes and have some anime spin-offs. There are just not enough epic space-operas around anymore.
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Old 2010-03-27, 02:49   Link #31
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In America we have a miniature game for Yamato:


And some of us are crazy about having large fleet actions:

(This is but a tiny part of the battle: this is 5 battleships, 1 battlecruiser, 1 patrol cruiser, 4 destroyers, and most of 6 frigate...in a fleet of over 100 ships...and that was just one side of the fight.)

There I believe is a plan to get rights to at least make the ships of the new animated film as miniatures at some point...once the designer finished up stuff from the third Yamato season.
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Old 2010-03-27, 08:54   Link #32
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Originally Posted by felix View Post
The point was, they both look the same even though they are light years away as far as technological advancement goes.
Which is an irrelevant point. They're both designed to do the same thing, namely travel under water. No matter your tech level, there's only really a set number of shapes you can design that will efficiently be able to push through the water. Lots of the technology has changed, but the medium you have to push through remains the same. The reason that a modern day submarine retains the same shape as a WW1 submarine is because that shape is efficient for moving through the environment it operates in.

This geometric similarity wouldn't be coherent for a vehicle designed to operate in a different environment. Like on land. In the air. Or in space.
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Originally Posted by Lost Cause View Post
Uh not to be picky but that's an aircraft carrier.
I was addressing the fact about the Yamato design being influenced by the era in which the original show was created. I noted that this didn't quite make sense, cause while there were Battleships still around, aircraft carriers were considered the more dominant ocean going warships.
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Old 2010-03-27, 15:18   Link #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
Which is an irrelevant point. They're both designed to do the same thing, namely travel under water. No matter your tech level, there's only really a set number of shapes you can design that will efficiently be able to push through the water. Lots of the technology has changed, but the medium you have to push through remains the same. The reason that a modern day submarine retains the same shape as a WW1 submarine is because that shape is efficient for moving through the environment it operates in.
You have a point regarding on how shape is dictated. But personally, I won't say that submarines retained the same shape since WW1, as at that time, and until the end of WW2, they were more submersible boats in their conception than anything, cruising in surface, and thus were designed accordingly.
It was only at the end of WW2 that new technologies, and a better understanding of hydrodynamic, allowed for true submarines vessels (i.e. designed to cruise underwater) to be built.


Quote:
This geometric similarity wouldn't be coherent for a vehicle designed to operate in a different environment. Like on land. In the air. Or in space.
I was addressing the fact about the Yamato design being influenced by the era in which the original show was created. I noted that this didn't quite make sense, cause while there were Battleships still around, aircraft carriers were considered the more dominant ocean going warships.
Or it could simply be that in the kids mind of the grown up who designed those series, battleships were still the most powerful and charismatic vessel as a weapon. Interestingly, about a decade later, as another generation came in, we got MSG and Macross, which are all about fighter-like weapons and their carriers (which retain strong firepower, unlike real ones).
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Old 2010-03-27, 17:10   Link #34
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Hollywood is out to ruin EVERYTHING anime-based.

They already ruined Speed Racer and Dragon Ball, WHAT MORE DO THEY WANT!?!?!?!??
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Old 2010-03-27, 18:48   Link #35
Roger Rambo
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Hollywood is out to ruin EVERYTHING anime-based.

They already ruined Speed Racer and Dragon Ball, WHAT MORE DO THEY WANT!?!?!?!??
You do understand that this is a Japanese production?
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Old 2010-03-27, 19:35   Link #36
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You do understand that this is a Japanese production?
Oh it's not? Nevermind, then it might be good in that case.
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Old 2010-03-28, 12:08   Link #37
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Japanese Live productions...I wonder sometimes. Hopefully it won't seem cheesy. On the other hand I still need to see the new anime movie that came out in December.

However, if the live action movie gets a sequel that follows the anime pattern...we may end up seeing something like this....and it will be awesome:

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Old 2010-03-29, 00:09   Link #38
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Originally Posted by Lost Cause View Post
Yeah,but he's talking about a battleship! Which Aircraft Carriers ain't!! Never mind JMvS just mentioned the Iowa class,which were the Yamato's nemisis'.

...not really...

Iowa class battleships never fought any Japanese Battleships in World War II.

Thanks to this thing called Pearl Harbor...Battleships were deemed obsolete and were reassigned to fleet escort roles. They were primarily used to protect the new capitol ships: Aircraft Carriers.

The Yamato was sunk solely by aircraft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMvS View Post
Actually the Iowa class battleship were still in service at that time, since they were decommissioned only during the 90's, and were even used during the 1st Gulf War. Other major navies such as the French and British still had battleships during the 60's, so they weren't exactly a distant memory by the time the story was written.
technically you are correct....but the U.S. only had one battleship in the 90's. Just happened to be the U.S.S. Wisconsin. Primary use was again fleet escort, fire support, and shore bombardment.

....

speaking of battleships...I've found out how the world ends...
Battleship (2012)
Battleship (film)

...it is based off of the board game.
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Old 2010-03-29, 06:54   Link #39
Roger Rambo
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...not really...

Iowa class battleships never fought any Japanese Battleships in World War II.

Thanks to this thing called Pearl Harbor...Battleships were deemed obsolete and were reassigned to fleet escort roles. They were primarily used to protect the new capitol ships: Aircraft Carriers.

The Yamato was sunk solely by aircraft.
Yep. I don't recall Battleship having a much bigger role anywhere in WW2 other than offering their cannons in support of amphibious operations. Battleships in World War 2 naval engagements never were deciding factors.

Also, the notion that the naval battles in the pacific were a pair of nemesis's squaring off against eachother isn't the most accurate either. Lee Sandlin in his essay "losing the war" goes on to give a very different view of naval combat in that war at Midway.

Spoiler for Losing the War-Midway section:

Last edited by Roger Rambo; 2010-03-29 at 07:07.
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Old 2010-03-29, 11:30   Link #40
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Perhaps. But the threat of a Battleship was still considered in the Second World War. Enough that resources were dedicated to keep Yamato and her sister ship, Musashi, bottled up in Truk for a long time. Those two were more or less White Elephants of the Fleet after Guadacanal. The Japanese didn't want to risk lossing the pride of the navy (these where the Fleet Flagships) like they had lost other ships throughout 1942. The war became an air war in so many ways, both in the Pacific and in Europe that control of the air was usually the deciding factor.

However Japan's Battlecruisers did see intense surface actions in 1942 against American Battleships. Unfortunately, a 1914 era Battlecruiser (refitted to a moderately armored fast battleship in the 1930s) armed with 8 x 14" guns is not a match for two brand new Fast Battleships armed with 9 x 16" guns each. And these were not even the Iowas...where were the smaller South Dakota and North Carolina classes. The Kongo-class Battlecrusiers didn't stand much of a chance against that, though they did do their best.

Only one Japanese battleship (that was being used as a battleship) survived the war. Nagato survived and was later used as a target (along with dozens of American warships) at the Bikini Atomic bomb tests.

Yamato herself was used what is generally considered a suicide mission off Okinawa in 1945. Sent with minimal escort, no air cover, on a one way trip towards the massed American fleet. One assumes the actual orders were to beach the ship near the main beachhead the Americans were using and use the massive 18" guns to keep the Americans away from the island. She never got that far. Learning from the sinking of the Musashi in 1944, the Americans naval air wings focused on one side of the Battleship and sank her. Musashi took more hits and took longer to sink because she was torpedoed on both sides on the ship. Yamato's wreck has been found and she's in no shape to be rebuilt like in Space Battleship Yamato (she's in a few large pieces that are spread apart and twisted)...however they haven't found the wreck of Musashi, though the reported underwater explostions right after she sank don't leave as much hope that she is mostly intact. She sank more or less level and bow first. Yamato supposedly rolled over and exploded, leaving that rather famous mushroom cloud of black on the ocean.
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