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Old 2011-01-01, 17:58   Link #2001
totoum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by achirist View Post
I don't care much for saints myself, but Megumi didn't kill Kaori's father, she gave him the chance for a new, longer life as a vampire; toshio and the villagers are the ones who actually killed him.
I'll play along,even if I were to agree she did him a service,was she really biting him with that intent in mind?

She probably didn't care if he were to rise or not,she clearly states that's she's not doing this as some kind of favor,but to hurt Kaori,and she's clearly enjoying it.
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Old 2011-01-01, 18:09   Link #2002
Razziell22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by achirist View Post
(and the goal was not kill people, but give them a new, longer life; the vampires didn't even kill people like natsuno, toshio, etc. early on when they got the chance; they were only trying to give them the gift of immortality and the chance to become jinrou)
Quote:
Originally Posted by achirist View Post
but Megumi didn't kill Kaori's father, she gave him the chance for a new, longer life as a vampire.
I don't think she bit him with that intentions, she wanted Kaori to suffer and the chances that he would become a Shiki are not 100%, he could of just died and never rise… and there is even a lesser chance of him becoming a jinrou...
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Old 2011-01-01, 18:09   Link #2003
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But then again, that was the point of the larger vampiric game, of which Megumi was only a pawn. So no, she wasn't terribly nice about it (especially when it brought up her unrequited love) but I still think she should have been able to go off towards a new life at the end--she still could have grown as a person if allowed to.
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Old 2011-01-01, 18:48   Link #2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by achirist View Post
but I still think she should have been able to go off towards a new life at the end--she still could have grown as a person if allowed to.
I can see where you're coming from,it kind of goes with this comment made earlier:

Quote:
I mean really, odds are any teen who gets their hands on something like that would go totally off their rocker, at least for a while.
If there's one thing I know,it's that some of the most cruel human behaviors I've observed are made between 15 year old teenage girls

So yes,if she were given the chance to grow older I think she'd mature a bit,but contrarly to your ordinary teenage girl,she might make quite a few casulties in the process before she gets there,so I'm not willing to give her that chance.

(And I know that to you , instead of making casulties she'd be giving them a new shot at life,but we'll just have to agree to disagree there )
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Old 2011-01-01, 19:02   Link #2005
AHH
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I can sympathize with just about all the characters in this show, including Megumi. Sympathizing doesn't necessarily mean you think they did the right thing, just that you understand why. Megumi wasn't any more mentally healthy than Seishin or Sunako anyway. Unless you think seriously stalking someone is something a "normal" person would do. In a way, though, Megumi was admirable. Once she had the power to, she did whatever she wanted and had absolutely zero regrets. Who doesn't want to live a life like that?

Really, though, telling people their "moral compass is off" is silly. Morals are hardly universal, as you should know well. Your morals aren't "right." The most commonly-held morals aren't "right." No set of morals is "right." Period.
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Old 2011-01-01, 19:31   Link #2006
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Originally Posted by karice67 View Post
Do remember that one of the reasons Sotoba was chosen is that they still BURY their dead. If people are cremated after their funerals (usually about 3 days after they die), then of course they're not going to rise up.
True, however, in the city, like what they did in the village, they could kidnap people or even attack a whole family at a time. Besides, there are a lot of university students or people living alone. All in all, with careful planning, they would have more success in a city.

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Originally Posted by Coco hime View Post
Sooo ya, I was just shocked and appalled when I saw so many comments bashing Megumi, Sunako, and Seishin. Can't you see at all that they just wanted a happy life?!? Somewhere they could feel like they belong?!?
So if you are allowed to murder and torment people's lives in order to be happy, it is okay, since your happiness is all that matters? So, for an example, a north Korean decides to nuke all of south Korea and wipe it off the face of this earth in order to feel happy, it is all fine and dandy?

Is it absolutely fine for you to destroy other people's happiness as long as you achieve yours?

Quote:
Originally Posted by achirist View Post
(and the goal was not kill people, but give them a new, longer life; the vampires didn't even kill people like natsuno, toshio, etc. early on when they got the chance; they were only trying to give them the gift of immortality and the chance to become jinrou)
Quote:
Originally Posted by achirist View Post
I don't care much for saints myself, but Megumi didn't kill Kaori's father, she gave him the chance for a new, longer life as a vampire; toshio and the villagers are the ones who actually killed him.
This issue is that only one in a few actually have longer life. Most others just die. So for the ones that die, are you saying too bad for them since they didn't have the power to survive? So the gift that the shiki gave to those that died is death itself?

Furthermore, Megumi had no intention of giving Kaori's father longer life. She just wanted to kill him to torment Kaori and couldn't care less if the father survived.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AHH View Post
Once she had the power to, she did whatever she wanted and had absolutely zero regrets. Who doesn't want to live a life like that?
Ever heard of "absolute power corrupts absolutely"? "With greater power comes greater responsibility"?

Everyone has the power to go out and murder people they don't like. The thing is, most people don't do so. It is the choice that one makes that allows you to agree with them or not. Megumi chosed to abuse her bloodlust, which caused a lot people to disagree with her. Ritsuko was her opposite, which is the reason why people agree with her.

Edit additonal
Quote:
Originally Posted by achirist View Post
I don't think Megumi is to blame for taunting Kaori in the series, either; she and her little brother should have minded their own buisness.
When your neighbors and friends start dying off, it is now your business. You and your family could be next. In this case, it was exactly what happened. Also, Megumi didn't exactly mind her own business when she took Tooru away from Natsuno.
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Old 2011-01-01, 19:49   Link #2007
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Once she had the power to, she did whatever she wanted and had absolutely zero regrets. Who doesn't want to live a life like that?
But that sounds like the most generic and boring villains in stories.
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Old 2011-01-01, 20:40   Link #2008
Kaoru Chujo
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Originally Posted by Manic View Post
...also yeah ur not the only one who that it was cheap he became a werewolf. When nats was being turned he was so weak he couldnt even move, but the monk was rambo in disguise. He can be half dead and carry heavy luggage around, be hacked open, drive, carry said luggage after being hacked, and still hurry to sunoko's location after reviving.
1. I must have missed something, but how do we actually know Seishin became a werewolf? Because of his powers of recuperation? Or his eyes?

2. I didn't think what he did was all that extreme. He staggered and stumbled up the mountain. He lay as dead for a long time, after having had a long period of weakness at the mansion. He would quite naturally seek Sunako in the abandoned church where they had met so often. He would know where the knives were kept. In the flames and chaos he could sneak up on the old man. It didn't seem like a deus ex machina to me, more like the natural evolution of the situation. He had to show up there sometime. Fortunately he showed up just in time, which is the only thing that might have less than 50% probability.

I felt his killing the old man was an important point: he transgressed his previous principles, putting himself on the same moral plane as everyone else.
___

3. All the analysis of the story based on morality seems quite beside the point, to me. I really don't judge characters based on whether I think they have done the right thing or not, but on my feeling of their character and humanity. I feel pity for both Megumi and Sunako, despite their many crimes. And for Seishin, despite his decision to side with the monsters. There was just more there there than in the normal human characters. I even found them more interesting as people than Toshio or Natsuno.
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Old 2011-01-01, 21:57   Link #2009
fukarming
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
1. I must have missed something, but how do we actually know Seishin became a werewolf? Because of his powers of recuperation? Or his eyes?

2. I didn't think what he did was all that extreme. He staggered and stumbled up the mountain. He lay as dead for a long time, after having had a long period of weakness at the mansion. He would quite naturally seek Sunako in the abandoned church where they had met so often. He would know where the knives were kept. In the flames and chaos he could sneak up on the old man. It didn't seem like a deus ex machina to me, more like the natural evolution of the situation. He had to show up there sometime. Fortunately he showed up just in time, which is the only thing that might have less than 50% probability.

I felt his killing the old man was an important point: he transgressed his previous principles, putting himself on the same moral plane as everyone else.
___

3. All the analysis of the story based on morality seems quite beside the point, to me. I really don't judge characters based on whether I think they have done the right thing or not, but on my feeling of their character and humanity. I feel pity for both Megumi and Sunako, despite their many crimes. And for Seishin, despite his decision to side with the monsters. There was just more there there than in the normal human characters. I even found them more interesting as people than Toshio or Natsuno.
Regular Shiki requires the dead person to stay dead for a couple of days, Werewolf turned when the human just about to die. Senshin is never "dead"
Besides, Senshin is driving at the end in the dawn while Sunako stay in the baggage.
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Old 2011-01-01, 22:01   Link #2010
Master_Yoma
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Poor Megumi she didnt need to die that way

But at less that ass Tomio Ookawa got what was coming to him
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Old 2011-01-01, 23:28   Link #2011
Kaoru Chujo
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Originally Posted by fukarming View Post
Regular Shiki requires the dead person to stay dead for a couple of days, Werewolf turned when the human just about to die. Senshin is never "dead." Besides, Senshin is driving at the end in the dawn while Sunako stay in the baggage.
Thanks. However, my ignorance is deeper than that: I was wondering if he was still human.

By the way, I just switched over to a new avatar/sig for the new season: the excellent Hikasa Youko.
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Old 2011-01-01, 23:43   Link #2012
karice67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
Thanks. However, my ignorance is deeper than that: I was wondering if he was still human.
Check ~5:25 and ~13:30 of episode 22. Seishin has the same vision as Sunako - he can see in the dark.
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Old 2011-01-02, 00:51   Link #2013
henwy
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Originally Posted by achirist View Post
No one says they are wrong, yet beautiful, sacred vampires are thrown stones at from pathetic christian morality.
I sincerely hope you are a troll. The alternative doesn't bear imagining.

This entire argument reminds me of those crazy serial killers who claim they went around murdering people because they were 'freeing' them and 'sending them to heaven'. I never expected anyone to actually think that was anything more than self-justifying claptrap but if we're to take these comments at face value the murder victims should have thanked their killers.
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Old 2011-01-02, 08:25   Link #2014
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Whoa. I just finished the series marathon style, and I think it is really good, 9/10 perhaps?

I like what Sunako said, about how death is equal to everyone. While I hate what the Shiki's did, it is sad to watch them get killed(Masao aside, he's an ass). It was painful to watch the Shikis die, especially Chizuru.

The first half of the whole season did not let me sleep, as I have windows in my room...
Really thought provoking to me in some ways, reminds me of school.

I'm sorry if this was asked, but how did Megumi get into Tooru's house?
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Old 2011-01-02, 09:28   Link #2015
thundrakkon
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I'm sorry if this was asked, but how did Megumi get into Tooru's house?
When Sheishiro and Chizuru came walking by during a party, Tooru's parents invited them to come inside, if I recalled correctly. That meant an open invitation for them to come at a later date, which Megumi did.
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Old 2011-01-02, 09:31   Link #2016
karice67
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Actually, Tohru was the one who invited Tatsumi (and a friend) in, when he met him at the vending machine.
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Old 2011-01-02, 09:32   Link #2017
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a nice ending, with Sunako survived (hinted at least) means this is not the end to everything, even Natsuno is not shown actually dead

as expected, Akira was saved by Natsuno

in the end, i guess everyone will leave the village, nobody wins or loses

at the start, i had problems with the character designs and thought about dropping it but the suspense is too strong, in the end everything connected and this turned out to be one of the best series in 2010

Last edited by klare; 2011-01-02 at 09:34. Reason: typos...
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Old 2011-01-02, 12:11   Link #2018
orion
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Originally Posted by klare View Post
a nice ending, with Sunako survived (hinted at least) means this is not the end to everything, even Natsuno is not shown actually dead

as expected, Akira was saved by Natsuno

in the end, i guess everyone will leave the village, nobody wins or loses

at the start, i had problems with the character designs and thought about dropping it but the suspense is too strong, in the end everything connected and this turned out to be one of the best series in 2010
Not everyone left the village. That's why the bus stop remains active in the epilogue with people getting on the bus.
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Old 2011-01-02, 12:26   Link #2019
pmarco
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For those interested in reading the Shiki novel, the prologue and the first part of chapter one can be found translated here: http://community.livejournal.com/tdx_manga/3245.html
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Old 2011-01-02, 14:09   Link #2020
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The first thing I thought after the final episode was 'well, that was kind of pointless'.

I mean, there is usually a lesson to be learned in these "us vs. the 'monsters' "- stories, that's what makes them interesting. Watching Megumi's skull being crushed by a tractor was certainly entertaining but since there was no moral ambiguity about anything in this show, it just doesn't seem like a story worth telling. Monsters arrive in village, many people die, remaining villagers become aware of the danger and fight back. That's all there is to it, really.

And I can't be the only one who had some trouble following the monk's trail of thought. At first it seemed like he was going to be the doctor's level-headed counterpart but all his character amounted to was "fuck this shit imma' gonna hang out with the loli of death doing absolutely nothing". Which brings me back to: well, that was kinda pointless.
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