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View Poll Results: Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha The MOVIE 1st - rating
Perfect 10 60 43.80%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 41 29.93%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 12 8.76%
7 out of 10 : Good 17 12.41%
6 out of 10 : Average 2 1.46%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.73%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.73%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 3 2.19%
Voters: 137. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2010-12-07, 20:57   Link #2061
ChronoReverse
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Incidentally, Fate herself expected Nanoha to tank the Photon Lancer in the movie manga since she only thought that Nanoha wouldn't have enough energy to cast anymore! It ended up doing far more damage than the other two versions...

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I must have a thing for barrier breaking. Demonstrated how Fate was more experienced than Nanoha, too.
Ironically, the manga demonstrates this factor the least out of the three iterations IMO. After the FLASH IMPACT, Nanoha is immediately twice put on the defensive by Fate. The barrier break demonstrates this in the movie of course. In the manga, Nanoha sort of just keeps Fate on her heels (although Nanoha was "wasting" magic) the entire time to the point Fate would have lost sans-SLB without the letter read to her by Arf to calm her down.
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Old 2010-12-07, 21:05   Link #2062
Demi.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChronoReverse View Post
Ironically, the manga demonstrates this factor the least out of the three iterations IMO. After the FLASH IMPACT, Nanoha is immediately twice put on the defensive by Fate. The barrier break demonstrates this in the movie of course. In the manga, Nanoha sort of just keeps Fate on her heels (although Nanoha was "wasting" magic) the entire time to the point Fate would have lost sans-SLB without the letter read to her by Arf to calm her down.
Heh, the first few seconds of the movie manga final battle? There were other instances too. You have to consider in what terrible shape Nanoha was in after their battle. Nanoha's pink element really must be the element of love, 'cause it seems incapable of damaging...Unless she just didn't want to hurt Fate. Where-as, each direct hit by Fate, resulted in physical damage.

In the movie manga, I thought they were more or less fighting as equals -- with STB declaring the unavoidable victor.
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Old 2010-12-07, 23:11   Link #2063
ChronoReverse
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Yeah, the first attack worked. Nanoha restores her barrier jacket and device though and it ends up just a spoken "her magic levels must have taken a dip!" (it must be discouraging to fight Nanoha when she always shrugs off heavy blows).

After that, Fate failed a number of times to strike Nanoha with a larger attack and eats both a Divine Buster and a Strike Smasher in the face for her efforts. It was getting to the point where Fate would have fallen into Nanoha's trap when Linith's diary was read to her.

This was when they finally fought equally until the leadup to the Photon Lancer.
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Old 2010-12-07, 23:35   Link #2064
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I don't know. I don't remember the battle chapter by chapter. But I remember being happy that Fate was actually damaging Nanoha UNLIKE the movie or series. Plus I remember two separate occasions where Nanoha would have lost if not for superhuman regenerative abilities and the inability to feel pain.

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eats both a Divine Buster and a Strike Smasher
I remember the DB being fired, but I don't remember it landing? Or it was never shown to phase her.
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Old 2010-12-08, 00:04   Link #2065
ChronoReverse
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Fate tried to hit Nanoha from behind, gets Bardiche caught for the effort, ended up binded and was forced to block Divine Buster dead on. The impact still smashed her straight back into the ocean.

In the ensuing aerial battle, none of Fate's shots landed (dodged or were countered). Fate tries to attack from the blind spot again but this time Nanoha knocks her back using Strike Smasher.


It wasn't until the calming down when the two fought evenly and both had their barrier jackets shredded (mostly off-screen).
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Old 2010-12-08, 00:12   Link #2066
Demi.
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Maybe this is selective reading on my part, but I really don't remember it being as one-sided as you make it sound.
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Old 2010-12-08, 00:14   Link #2067
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Well, it's easily available for you to read in the usual places. I'm looking at the appropriate chapters right now just to verify my comments.
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Old 2010-12-08, 00:22   Link #2068
Demi.
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Just read them. I guess you're right in a sense. Though all of Fate's attacks that hit seem far more lethal and Nanoha recovers from them like nothing.

Still ended up 3 clear hits to 3. With STB ending it.

Better than the anime or movie, I say.
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Old 2010-12-08, 00:35   Link #2069
ChronoReverse
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First hit was still blocked (although not cleanly) as mentioned by Nanoha afterward. It cut right through RH and the front of her Barrier Jacket, but she didn't take damage.

The second strike (which, as I mentioned, was after the calming) was fully guarded by Nanoha for no damage even though it was even faster than the first strike. It didn't even knock Nanoha backwards unlike the two heavy blows from Nanoha that knocked Fate around even though she fully guarded (in her thoughts).

The rest was trading blows shredding each other until Fate lands an attack on Nanoha trying to strike from a dead angle.


Up to this point, Fate never demonstrated any large edge over Nanoha besides the first strike. Nothing as clear as Fate easily breaking Nanoha's barrier in the movie or clearly pushing Nanoha to the edge with back-to-back attacks in S1. It was either dead-even or Nanoha even pushing Fate a bit.

Of course, we all know the ending of the final attacks...


In any case, I like the depiction in the movie manga, but one thing S1 and the movie does differently is the amount of edge Fate gets.

Last edited by ChronoReverse; 2010-12-08 at 00:48.
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Old 2010-12-08, 00:51   Link #2070
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChronoReverse View Post
First hit was blocked as mentioned by Nanoha afterwards. It cut right through RH and the front of her Barrier Jacket, but she didn't take damage.
Yeah, no. "raising her defenses" may of prevented KO, but it didn't null the damage. Blood does not lie.



And to be technical. Fate did not hit her once, but 2'ce.



Quote:
The second strike (which, as I mentioned, was after the calming) was fully guarded by Nanoha for no damage even though it was even faster than the first strike.
Again, how? She took a direct hit.



Quote:
Up to this point, Fate never demonstrated any edge over Nanoha besides the first strike.


We all know the ending of the final attacks...
I didn't say Fate had an edge. I don't see how Nanoha had one either, though. But Fate's attacks looked more lethal to Nanoha, so I'm not seeing how she blocked any of the ones that looked like direct hits.
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Old 2010-12-08, 01:10   Link #2071
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I dunno, that splatter looked like blood but the next image shows no blood and Nanoha declares that she got her guard up in time barely. The watchers of the battle also mention that Nanoha still used up a lot of magic power.

Later on, when Nanoha got massively injured by Photon Lancer Phalanx, the blood is properly shown on Nanoha herself. Since we know Nanoha doesn't have healing spells here, it seems that she didn't take real damage.

Still, the case that the physical damage was actually done is strong as well so I guess it's just my own divergent interpretation.



As for the second blow, I mean the one at the end of chapter 9 (in case we're not talking about the same one) since the first two blows were sort of a single combo. It seems Nanoha did take some superficial damage as opposed to no damage. Still, it's after Fate gets knocked about with two direct impacts and it was also after Linith's diary was read to her.




Quote:
I didn't say Fate had an edge. I don't see how Nanoha had one either, though. But Fate's attacks looked more lethal to Nanoha, so I'm not seeing how she blocked any of the ones that looked like direct hits.
First off, I've already repeated in each of my posts that Nanoha had the edge between The First Blow and The Calming Moment where Fate was unable to hit Nanoha in aerial combat and was instead blasted in the fact twice. This is despite the handicap Nanoha suffered from the initial surprise attack.

Second, I'm not saying this without basis because the TSAB crew mentions, in-universe, that Nanoha seems to have an edge except that she was burning magic rather quickly during this phase of the fight.

Third, Nanoha had a plan to end the conflict assuming Fate continued to fight the way she had been. It was The Calming Moment where Fate recollected herself and switched tactics where it became a free-for-all brawl ended with both contenders taking serious... clothing damage which lead into the final bout.

In any case, the whole thing sprung up when it was pointed out that Fate demonstrated better battle experience and skill in the movie and S1. I brought forth the idea that Fate didn't really show the fruits of her experience in the movie manga. Rather it feels to me that she simply beat out Nanoha in specs except for the Bind=>Photon Lancer combo.
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Old 2010-12-08, 01:21   Link #2072
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChronoReverse View Post
I dunno, that splatter looked like blood but the next image shows no blood and Nanoha declares that she got her guard up in time barely. The watchers of the battle also mention that Nanoha still used up a lot of magic power.
There is blood in the second page too. But unless the artist lost his mind on that first page, it's the one you should probably go with as far as damage count is concerned. Blood splattered. And then she repaired her BJ to look as if she took no damage.

Quote:
Later on, when Nanoha got massively injured by Photon Lancer Phalanx, the blood is properly shown on Nanoha herself. Since we know Nanoha doesn't have healing spells here, it seems that she didn't take real damage.
Nanoha is just really, really, REALLY durable in this installment. That's the only way to explain it.




Quote:
First off, I've already repeated in each of my posts that Nanoha had the edge between The First Blow and The Calming Moment where Fate was unable to hit Nanoha in aerial combat and was instead blasted in the fact twice. This is despite the handicap Nanoha suffered from the initial surprise attack.

Second, I'm not saying this without basis because the TSAB crew mentions, in-universe, that Nanoha seems to have an edge except that she was burning magic rather quickly during this phase of the fight.

Third, Nanoha had a plan to end the conflict assuming Fate continued to fight the way she had been. It was The Calming Moment where Fate recollected herself and switched tactics where it became a free-for-all brawl ended with both contenders taking serious... clothing damage which lead into the final bout.

The series showed an instance where it looked like Nanoha had an advantage as well. I don't consider the movie manga any different. I think it just better represents damage taken, compared to the other installments where Nanoha is pretty much untouched with clothes in-tact.

The movie does show Fate having the largest advantage over Nanoha, compared to the other two installments. It's just that the final two attacks made so little sense. ;-;
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Old 2010-12-08, 03:19   Link #2073
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it's hard to do both flashy & CMoA AND combine it with 'this makes reasonable sense'

I think anyway .. they usually take the first route
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Old 2010-12-08, 09:08   Link #2074
Takamura Mamoru
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Regarding the manga, Nanoha was pushing herself. She was hurt under the barrier jacket.

She said if her Starlight Breaker failed, she wouldn't be able to continue fighting. In other words, had Fate somehow survived the SLB, Nanoha would have been the K.O.'d one. I guess you could say she took down Fate just barely before she broke down herself.

Now it also makes more sense why Nanoha fell off that building in the next chapter.

Regarding Fate hurting Nanoha, this one was forgotten:

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Old 2010-12-09, 08:08   Link #2075
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Good thing they DIDN'T fight Precia. According to the booklet in the Bluray box, she was rank SS.
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Old 2010-12-09, 09:32   Link #2076
Takamura Mamoru
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Wouldn't have been surprised if she was higher than SS.

I mean not everyone can throw CROSS DIMENSIONAL THUNDERBOLTS that severely cripple goddamn TSAB warships.

Or summon dozens of fighting mechas that give powerful mages trouble.
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Old 2010-12-09, 10:12   Link #2077
Akiyoshi
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Maybe is synthetic SS like Hayate? you know, able to cast large and goddamn powerful spells but lacks hability to cast minor ones efficiently(still arguably because of her fight with Arf, but also can be because of Arf's mistake of leave Precia's hands unwatched at that very close range and gets blasted as a result).

No wonder why Scaglietti made the wisefull decision of just collaborate with her xD.
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Old 2010-12-09, 10:16   Link #2078
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Hayate is synthetic? I do assume that the only reason she gets bumped to SS is because the Book is tied to her intrinsically and artificially magnifies her power. Otherwise without the Book she's more or less a A+-S+ like Fate and Nanoha.
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Old 2010-12-09, 10:25   Link #2079
Akiyoshi
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I still don get quite clearly how ranks work but from what i've readed, "synthetic" is a type of composite rank, marking you excelence in a set of specific areas. So, Hayate is Synthetic SS because of her monstrous supply of mana and capability to cast near-nuclear spells and powerfull "Area of Effect" spells(a.lso for possesing the Tome of The Night Sky), however, she lacks eficiency in other areas, she isn't a good fighter(long live to PSP Hayate! xD), her aerial mage capabilities are simply OK(apparently) and we don't know much about her defensive powers other than having the goddamn Wolkenritter as personal bodyguards(but they don't count into her rank sadly xDU). So if you lack well-rounded abilities but you're unveliebable powerfull or skilled in one specific area you can receive a synthetic high rank

Like i said, i'm not totally sure so feel free to correct me xD.
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Old 2010-12-09, 10:26   Link #2080
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Hayate is definitely synthetic; see StrikerS manga chapter 10, page 17. IIRC one of the more recent supplementary materials stated that Precia was also a synthetic SS, but I can't remember where.
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