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View Poll Results: Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha The MOVIE 1st - rating
Perfect 10 59 44.03%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 39 29.10%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 12 8.96%
7 out of 10 : Good 17 12.69%
6 out of 10 : Average 2 1.49%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.75%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.75%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 3 2.24%
Voters: 134. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2010-02-11, 22:16   Link #421
Noe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
I'm sorry, you're expecting objective discussion in a place called "Fate Goddess Fanclub"? If anything, someone who has no personal favorite character would hold a more objective viewpoint, then people who are already predisposed to liking a certain character; and thus find any commentary which holds said character in a less-than positive light, to be near blasphemous.
I won't ever deny something like this. Fate elicits the strongest and most virtuous sentiments from me [and many others]. Then again, nobody's truly impartial when it comes to a matter other than it consisting of pragmatic information. Possibly the only types of discussions I would find objective would be on what actually occurred in the actual series, whether it be anime or manga.
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Old 2010-02-11, 22:20   Link #422
Kaijo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noe View Post
I won't ever deny something like this. Fate elicits the strongest and most virtuous sentiments from me [and many others]. Then again, nobody's truly impartial when it comes to a matter other than it consisting of pragmatic information. Possibly the only types of discussions I would find objective would be on what actually occurred in the actual series, whether it be anime or manga.
Actually, while you are partially correct that everyone is biased, there *are* people who can manage a decent objective discussion. I have no real personal favorite character in the show, as I like them all. It's one reason I wrote Crisis, so I could try to include as many of them as possible. And my future fics will incorporate even more of them.

So, really can't hide behind that card. You really like Fate, and hey, that's fine. Just realize that it doesn't make you as objective as someone with no personal favorite, since that shade will always color your viewpoint.

But to suggest someone come into your fanclub hideaway for a discussion? You and I both know what they would end up like; it's rather disingenuous.
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Old 2010-02-11, 22:28   Link #423
Demi.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
In one sense, you may be correct, but for the most part, the budget could have been better spent elsewhere. If this is all we could expect, I rather would have had some new material.

All we've been shuffled is season 1, with a bunch of stuff cut to make room to fit in 2 hours, and it's been prettied up. It's sorta like a Director's Cut, only they actually cut a ton more than they added.

It's a decent product, but it's just last year's model repackaged with a shiny new cover, which does attract those that are entranced by shiny objects.
Well, I don't mind other peoples opinion. When people start playing the "hating game," it's usually when I bother to comment.

Putting aside it being a retelling of the first season, I believe the enjoyment you receive from it while disregarding the fact it is a retelling(part AU)...Shows it's true quality. It may not be for you, but the idea of a movie existing for the first season which easily rivals the series. Imagine how much more easily people will find interest in the franchise. The original series detered a lot of people, but this movie seems to elicit entirely different emotions compared to the general opinion of the first season. And for that, it's a success. (excluding the fact of how well it did in the box office)

A complete AU wouldn't be able to stand together with A's. Because watching a complete AU movie and A's back-to-back would confuse people in a lot more ways than the fact the designs are different.
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Old 2010-02-11, 22:35   Link #424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demi. View Post
Well, I don't mind other peoples opinion. When people start playing the "hating game," it's usually when I bother to comment.

Putting aside it being a retelling of the first season, I believe the enjoyment you receive from it while disregarding the fact it is a retelling(part AU)...Shows it's true quality. It may not be for you, but the idea of a movie existing for the first season which easily rivals the series. Imagine how much more easily people will find interest in the franchise. The original series detered a lot of people, but this movie seems to elicit entirely different emotions compared to the general opinion of the first season. And for that, it's a success (excluding the fact of how well it did in the box office)
You have to learn to separate negative commentary from hate. People can point out why they disliked something, and it could be valid criticism. But choosing to label it as "hate" you are trying to belittle their opinion.

And there is valid negative criticism.

A lot of people feel cheated. A company makes something they like, and says they are spending a lot of time and money making something nice which gets you excited and your hopes up... and then they hand you what they've sold you before, but with a pretty and shiny bow on top.

The criticism is: They could have easily done so much better.

I suppose we'll see what their next animation project is, and if they do something better, then perhaps a lot of us will regain some faith. But if it's a movie 2nd where A's is condensed to 2 hours and a ton of stuff cut out, while keeping everything as close as it was before... well, it'll show that they are just repackaging things to milk the franchise.

Cue all the star wars special editions on DVD, BU-RAY, director's cuts, repackaging, etc.
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Old 2010-02-11, 22:44   Link #425
Demi.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
You have to learn to separate negative commentary from hate. People can point out why they disliked something, and it could be valid criticism. But choosing to label it as "hate" you are trying to belittle their opinion.
Your interpretation of hate and mine must be completely different.

Quote:
And there is valid negative criticism.

A lot of people feel cheated. A company makes something they like, and says they are spending a lot of time and money making something nice which gets you excited and your hopes up... and then they hand you what they've sold you before, but with a pretty and shiny bow on top.
I don't consider this a valid point. Their hopes should have never been higher than it being a "retelling" in the first place. That is originally what it was confirmed to be.

Quote:
The criticism is: They could have easily done so much better.
So even though if they perfected the original season, they could have done "so much better?" From a subjective viewpoint thats true, however, I don't see how that can be considered as criticism. A retelling is not a shortcoming is they make it substantially better than the original.

Quote:
I suppose we'll see what their next animation project is, and if they do something better, then perhaps a lot of us will regain some faith. But if it's a movie 2nd where A's is condensed to 2 hours and a ton of stuff cut out, while keeping everything as close as it was before... well, it'll show that they are just repackaging things to milk the franchise.

Cue all the star wars special editions on DVD, BU-RAY, director's cuts, repackaging, etc.
A's is far harder to top than the first season, so I don't know what they have planned. But we will see.

PS milking the franchise is the Fate/Stay night Ovas, not this movie which they took a long time to make and put much effort into making it more enjoyable.
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Old 2010-02-11, 22:52   Link #426
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It's still milking the franchise, just milking with high quality. Nothing really wrong with it until they do it badly.
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Old 2010-02-11, 22:56   Link #427
Demi.
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Milking with "high quality" - That is new to me.

My interpretation of milking was dishing something out with the sole purpose of profiting. Made possible because the fanbase is so devoted they're willing to purchase anything for the franchises cause. They could have taken a far quicker approach than a movie which took them around 1 1/2(probably longer) years to complete.

I feel the director genuinely cared for this movie, and tried his best to present it in the best possible way. Who knows, perhaps he was unhappy with how he made the original series, and wanted to amend for his past mistakes.
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Old 2010-02-11, 22:57   Link #428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demi. View Post
Your interpretation of hate and mine must be completely different.
Negative criticism is valid, and that's mainly what's been presented to your own opposing viewpoint. You'll just have to learn that most people consider it exactly that: negative criticism. It's only hate if you are really, really biased, which to be honest, you're coming across very strongly as biased.

It's okay, just admit your bias and we can move on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demi
I don't consider this a valid point. Their hopes should have never been higher than it being a "retelling" in the first place. That is originally what it was confirmed to be.
Yes and no. People are people, and even if someone is somewhat honest, there are ways in which they can come across as promising one thing, yet delivering another. It was a decent product, but it could have been much better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demi
So even though if they perfected the original season, they could have done "so much better?" From a subjective viewpoint thats true, however, I don't see how that can be considered as criticism. A retelling is not a shortcoming is they make it substantially better than the original.
Yes. A completely new story. I mean, the original series was fairly good. I don't think they "perfected" it at all with the movie, because they cut so much out. I liked the Takamachi family moments. I liked Arisa and Suzuka, and they got sidelined even more. There is so much more to the story, and it's all gone, in exchange for flashy fights.

Popcorn is good, but it's also just fluff; I need real meat and a full balanced meal to really satisfy me. Some people are satisfied being handed fluff, tho.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demi
PS milking the franchise is the Fate/Stay night Ovas, not this movie which they took a long time to make and put much effort into making it more enjoyable.
Your opinion. The fact remains that they could have made something new with the money, or made a real AU like the movie manga, instead of this. I would have loved a movie that showcased an event that happened in the 10 year time skip at least. So much material to address, and they poorly rehash what's been done already.
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Old 2010-02-11, 23:11   Link #429
Demi.
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Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
Negative criticism is valid, and that's mainly what's been presented to your own opposing viewpoint. You'll just have to learn that most people consider it exactly that: negative criticism. It's only hate if you are really, really biased, which to be honest, you're coming across very strongly as biased.
It looked like purely driven flaming to me, but whatever. And it's recurring. I've heard the same thing so many times my head spins from the thought.

Quote:
It's okay, just admit your bias and we can move on.
I admit everyone posting in this thread is biased. moving on.

Quote:
Yes and no. People are people, and even if someone is somewhat honest, there are ways in which they can come across as promising one thing, yet delivering another. It was a decent product, but it could have been much better.
They promised one thing, and delivered with the same thing they promised. And great now you're caling something "decent" that you havn't even watched yet. And even using past tense!

--And got tired before I could get to replying back to the rest. Which means, I'm done. Alas, this will all repeat itself some other day, it always does.
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Old 2010-02-11, 23:15   Link #430
Alavon
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You know...I don't effing care about all this crap; I was just happy that they made Nanoha into a movie and seeing some clips and what people had to say (who watched it) made me assume that the movie was a success. Remember, this movie was created for the Japanese audience so obviously what we see will not fill our expectations and never will.

EDIT: I want the movie to be on DVD now! TT^TT
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Old 2010-02-11, 23:19   Link #431
Andy00
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Wow, chapter 5 of the "The Movie The Comics 1st" (entitled "Raising Heart") is really, really dark. http://www.mangafox.com/manga/mahou_...e_comics/c005/

Spoiler:


...is this what happens in the movie? Or is it an AU of an AU?
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Old 2010-02-11, 23:21   Link #432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy00 View Post
Wow, chapter 5 of the "The Movie The Comics 1st" (entitled "Raising Heart") is really, really dark. http://www.mangafox.com/manga/mahou_...e_comics/c005/

Spoiler:


...is this what happens in the movie? Or is it an AU of an AU?
AU of an AU as was earlier discussed in the manga thread, the movie is apparently much much more true to the original series.
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Old 2010-02-11, 23:22   Link #433
Alavon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy00 View Post
Wow, chapter 5 of the "The Movie The Comics 1st" (entitled "Raising Heart") is really, really dark. http://www.mangafox.com/manga/mahou_...e_comics/c005/

Spoiler:


...is this what happens in the movie? Or is it an AU of an AU?
Hmm...

Spoiler for My response:
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Old 2010-02-12, 02:17   Link #434
Sheba
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Originally Posted by Demi. View Post
Milking with "high quality" - That is new to me.
It's nothing new.

Gainax had done that with Evangelion, Kyoto Animation and Kadokawa IS doing it with Haruhi. And know what? The qualities of the Eva movies and the Disappearance movie are not to be denied in despite of their obvious primary goal that is *GASP* making money from fans!

Quote:
My interpretation of milking was dishing something out with the sole purpose of profiting. Made possible because the fanbase is so devoted they're willing to purchase anything for the franchises cause.
You mean something like releasing sound stages, churning out THREE different manga if not more and making a movie? *GASP*
Quote:
I feel the director genuinely cared for this movie, and tried his best to present it in the best possible way. Who knows, perhaps he was unhappy with how he made the original series, and wanted to amend for his past mistakes.


What's so hard to suddenly realize that 7Arcs have seen they are sitting on a cash cow? Are you feeling so hurt when confronting that possible truth that you could feel like dying? What do you call giving film strips after a certain number of viewing if not a way to make some money? 7Arcs is not some company, sparkling like Edward Cullen, who descended from heaven in the middle of a choir of angels to give you Nanoha out of disinterested love for the humanity (take note that many Haruhi fans had done that mistake, until the three years trolling by Kadokawa stretched their patience thin, then Endless Eight drove the nail in the coffin). They are humans like you and me, they needs to pay rents and eat; and for that, they have to make money. As soon as you'll realize that, you can TAKE IT EASY!

WELCOME TO CAPITALISM!

PS: There is nothing wrong with making money. However, there are making it right with full love and dedicated work that end up pleasing the intended public, like the console release of BlazBlue; and making it wrong with half-assed work that end up pissing off even the extreme fanboys, like King of Figters XII by SNK.

Last edited by Sheba; 2010-02-12 at 02:59.
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Old 2010-02-12, 02:59   Link #435
Kikaifan
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...nice analogy in the postscript, Sheba XD
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Old 2010-02-12, 03:07   Link #436
Sheba
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Originally Posted by Kikaifan View Post
...nice analogy in the postscript, Sheba XD
I can't think of another VG example that have drawn as much rage from the fans, even as a former SNK fanboy I can only shake my head at SNK.
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Old 2010-02-12, 04:06   Link #437
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Originally Posted by Demi. View Post
I admit everyone posting in this thread is biased. moving on.
Hey! I, personally, do my best at remaining impartial at all times. It's why my avvy is incredibly lame, and will never change. I don't want to get myself stuck on one series, or for that matter, one character. So while, yes, I'll admit Fate is my favorite character, I wouldn't say I'm biased.

I gotta agree with Kaijo on, well, most things.
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Old 2010-02-12, 04:15   Link #438
Takamura Mamoru
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WHY DOES THE MOVIE ADAPTION OF THE FIRST SEASON FOLLOW THE PLOT OF THE FIRST SEASON?
Radiant Beam logic > X
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Old 2010-02-12, 06:40   Link #439
Sheba
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So apparently I am accused of fueling the fire (like, I am a troll). What's hurting you so much? That Nanoha is an intellectual property that ought to make money like Gundam, Eva and Haruhi? But hey, denial and pink-tinted glasses are such convenient and wonderful things when it comes to things that someone loves, right?
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Old 2010-02-12, 10:01   Link #440
leodamine
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it's like a freakin battlefield in here. Let's agree to disagree and make good buddies =D
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