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Old 2013-06-07, 04:08   Link #2421
shironeko8
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Yup, that's it. I don't know, i just found it to be something more of a flashback in dream form. But oh well, i'll probably just leave my assumptions to myself for now until the anime ends.
Anyways, those thoughts seems pretty much accurate, well most of them. It'd be natural if Kyou became a full blown otaku, after all that's happened, i'd be happy for Ruri if that what would happen to her, seeing as she would have been the most productive if that was the case and Ayase's part was, well, win. XD
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Old 2013-06-07, 04:27   Link #2422
relentlessflame
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
For me, the kiss or kisses (both) are to signify Kyousuke's "choice". It's a symbol that he chooses Kirino. The second kiss only underlines this choice - he still "loves" her. BUT. By "going back" or more correctly pretending to do so, the author dodges the bullet to explain how they're dealing with the problems - the stigmatization, the social backlash, their parents' reactions, all the likes. It reminds me of an old project manager joke for impossible tasks: You plan it all through, and then just add a step "here is where a miracle happens". Exactly THAT is the cop-out. The author capitulates and refuses to resolve the problems. That all "happens in-between and we don't see it".
Well, again, I think we need more information about what issues were and were not dealt with in the novel itself. Making these sorts of pronouncements based off of limited, brief "action summaries" (that may not be complete or fully accurate) is prone to jumping to conclusions. It may be that the person making the summary didn't consider things important that would better inform this discussion.

I understand the concept of what you're saying, anyway, even if I personally can be more lenient on this issue depending on the way it's handled. I do see some reasons why an ambiguous/not-fully-resolved ending may have been preferred in this case.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
Also, it just doesn't fit with my life experiences. That's not how romantic love works - especially not the self-centered kind that Kirino employs.
Keep in mind they're still awfully young. Teenagers in love do stupid things that adults wouldn't necessarily do, particularly when faced with all sorts of complications. Kirino's "selfishness" is also reflecting her lack of emotional maturity, and the rashness of Kyousuke's actions could be seen as the same.
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Old 2013-06-07, 05:15   Link #2423
Sakura_Tsuki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Honestly, next time people re-read the novels or re-watch the anime, there are basically three things to pay attention to:

a) Kirino's true feelings lurking beneath the surface (and the ways she tried to hide it)
b) Manami's true intentions lurking beneath the surface (and the ways she tried to hide it)
c) The way Kyousuke both falls-into and slips-away-from Manami's plans, and towards Kirino (often despite Kirino's brash/abrasive attitude).


And the key points to know are as follows:

Kirino:
1. Has been in love with Kyousuke since childhood
2. Became estranged from Kyousuke due to Manami's intervention
3. Is deeply resentful of both Kyousuke and Manami

Manami:
1. Has been in love with Kyousuke since childhood
2. Got closer to Kyousuke after she drove a wedge between him and Kirino
3. Doesn't want to lose Kyousuke to Kirino (and only Kirino) at any cost

Kyousuke:
1. Used to be a leader/go-getter
2. Settled on the boring life after Manami's intervention
3. Wants to win Kirino's affection back


Knowing all this now, I think a lot of things become a lot more clear.
??? i already know that. I mean something else with my reaction. I think you didnt understand me here. Sorry if i was not clear.
The points your are mentioning i have already conluded that a long time ago. So i am not surprised with anything that we know of volume 12 so far.

The comment that i made about Manami being a grandma etc is just a joke man.
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Old 2013-06-07, 05:37   Link #2424
Mentar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SigUp View Post
Just out of the back of my head:

Volume 8, when she does her best to comfort him, and goes to great lengths to try to bring Kuroneko back.
Volume 1, when she thanks him (and then blushes) after Kyousuke's confrontation with the father over her Otaku hobby.
Volume 4, at the maid-event.
Volume 8, when she gives Kuroneko permission to confess, tells Kyousuke that Kuroneko really likes him and forces herself to accept their relationship.
I'll give you Volume 8, even though I want to point out that Kirino never really managed to "accept their relationship". See what happened afterwards.

Volumes 1 and 4 are mere "thank you"s for a huge huge favor Kyousuke did for her.

All things considered, there is not even a remote semblance of a balance between Kirino's behavior towards Kyousuke and Kyousuke's constant pampering of Kirino. Kirino is consistently the spoiled and ungrateful princess that all other characters are revolving around, trying to blow sugar up her rear end. I had some remote hopes that the story would end on a message from Kyousuke to Kirino being "I love you, and I care for you, but this one time, in the end, I'm going to let my wishes take priority over yours".

Alas, it was not meant to be. All Kirino, eternally, forever.

Fine, then.

*toss*
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Old 2013-06-07, 05:40   Link #2425
Sakura_Tsuki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
^ The part where Kirino is talking is the part where present!Kirino takes over past!Kirino in his dream.

By the way, someone posted on /a/ on his thoughts about "Ten Years After":
What is the base of his claims? Did he have any proof for this?

If really this is what is gonna happen then, it is better not to read the 10 years after. The writter is practically killing the whole story and giving it the worst possible ending.
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Old 2013-06-07, 05:45   Link #2426
Sakura_Tsuki
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found this on 4chan. And it is funny to read. It is a short summary on how people reacted before volume 12 was out and after volume 12 spoilers were known. It really gives a summary about what really is going on:

Before vol 12:
>this is a novel for childrens they can't turn it into incest
>it's too popular they won't turn it into incest
>author have no balls to make it incest
>publisher have no balls to let this ending with incest
>they will turns out to be not-blood-related
>tokyo ban

After vol 12:
>the spoilers are fake
>they broke up after wedding the kiss in the final page doesn't count
>you have no evidence for the kiss in the final page
>no matter what they say I know they are not blood-related
>Manami is my waifu ;_;

Conclusion much people are MAD!!!!! and wont accept it!!!
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Old 2013-06-07, 05:52   Link #2427
Wilshere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
I'll give you Volume 8, even though I want to point out that Kirino never really managed to "accept their relationship". See what happened afterwards.

Volumes 1 and 4 are mere "thank you"s for a huge huge favor Kyousuke did for her.

All things considered, there is not even a remote semblance of a balance between Kirino's behavior towards Kyousuke and Kyousuke's constant pampering of Kirino. Kirino is consistently the spoiled and ungrateful princess that all other characters are revolving around, trying to blow sugar up her rear end. I had some remote hopes that the story would end on a message from Kyousuke to Kirino being "I love you, and I care for you, but this one time, in the end, I'm going to let my wishes take priority over yours".

Alas, it was not meant to be. All Kirino, eternally, forever.

Fine, then.

*toss*
A mere Kirino hater??? If you arent satisfied you can always buy the game and choose your favorite heroine. This is how anime works,they want profits so they gave us the most satisfying ending(in my opinion)and if u arent ok with it you have to buy games etc.....
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Old 2013-06-07, 05:58   Link #2428
Lucarion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
I think I see now where our misunderstanding is coming from. I'll try to explain:

For me, the kiss or kisses (both) are to signify Kyousuke's "choice". It's a symbol that he chooses Kirino. The second kiss only underlines this choice - he still "loves" her. BUT. By "going back" or more correctly pretending to do so, the author dodges the bullet to explain how they're dealing with the problems - the stigmatization, the social backlash, their parents' reactions, all the likes. It reminds me of an old project manager joke for impossible tasks: You plan it all through, and then just add a step "here is where a miracle happens". Exactly THAT is the cop-out. The author capitulates and refuses to resolve the problems. That all "happens in-between and we don't see it".

Also, it just doesn't fit with my life experiences. That's not how romantic love works - especially not the self-centered kind that Kirino employs.



Oh, I read the novel translations, too. No substantial change in my eyes. Kirino's continuous abuse of Kyousuke rings very true here. I wonder how many times she called her so-called "love" "disgusting" or worse. Her treatment of him has been just the same: Kirino bossed him around to solve her own problems and gives him verbal and physical abuse as thanks. I'll easily concede that she did develop a certain form of "protectiveness" towards Kyousuke, but it smacked more of "possessiveness" to me.

Please answer me this: When did Kirino do something to help Kyousuke? When did she express genuine appreciation for his and his efforts? When did Kirino forgo a selfish wish of her own for the sake of Kyousuke? When did she even show any shred of interest in Kyousuke's wishes?



Yes, she grew irritable over the threatened loss of her possession (Kyousuke). Is that your idea of "love"?
First off, thank you for answering. Now for my reply...

One, her feelings are incestuous. It's very wrong, and she's very aware of this. It's a disgusting, shameful feeling that must be locked away and heavily guarded. It's only natural she'd get defensive over it and it also adds to the hypocritical humor since out of every one, since she's the one who adores playing imouto-ge, she's probably the one with the least amount of reason to make fun of Kyou for playing something she made him play. Now if you're referring to her calling Kyousuke gross, then Kyousuke does the same thing--again remember, they maybe incestuous, but their romantic feelings for each other doesn't drown out the fact that they are siblings--and will always be so. It's perfectly normal for sibs to act that way towards each other when they're pissed and usually have less restraint when doing so. Doesn't mean they love each other less. When the series first began the two didn't even speak to each other, and plainly said they hated each other; only now have we found the reasons why it led up to that, so I'm not bothered by how she treated Kyou. It's perfectly OK, and how do I know that? Because Kyousuke doesn't say otherwise; the guy is FINE no matter what you dish out on him. He's not being bullied; he's just letting her get away with it because she's his sister which I'm going to repeat again because I feel this is pretty critical to understanding their dynamic-- Kirino is allowed to treat Kyou that way because she is his SISTER. That fact alone excuses her for a lot, and Kyou knows that because he doesn't see what she asks him to do as a big deal.

Now as for Kirino taking Kyousuke into consideration. Well, there's the Kuroneko incident, the time when Kyousuke was studying for the test, the time she gave Kyousuke a gift comes to mind. I think there more but I can't remember them, but at least its not nothing. Also, what exactly were Kyousuke's wishes? The guy had no ambitions prior to the series and wanted to live out his life in a mundane cycle of nothing.
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Old 2013-06-07, 06:04   Link #2429
Kakurin-san
ねぇ、無理は禁物よ?
 
 
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Following spoilers are based on a Chinese quick translation of chapter 1 (posted today, 18:07 Chinese time, so should be legit, but be warned, this is a quick translation of a quick translation ).

Spoiler for Chapter 1:


EDIT: Note, this is only one part of chapter 1. Others are following. The guy just posted another part.
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Old 2013-06-07, 06:12   Link #2430
Wilshere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SigUp View Post
Following spoilers are based on a Chinese quick translation of chapter 1 (posted today, 18:07 Chinese time, so should be legit, but be warned, this is a quick translation of a quick translation ).

Spoiler for Chapter 1:


EDIT: Note, this is only one part of chapter 1. Others are following. The guy just posted another part.
Lol looks like Kyousuke did his homework playing eroge and a very sharp move convincing her lol although she wanted to go out with him no hesitation. I think its legit but Kinda short but it will do. Thx mate

Oh so its only a part of it
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Old 2013-06-07, 06:15   Link #2431
Kakurin-san
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Yep, chapter one continues on Christmas eve. Will translate it later.
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Old 2013-06-07, 06:17   Link #2432
matapat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post

For me, the kiss or kisses (both) are to signify Kyousuke's "choice". It's a symbol that he chooses Kirino. The second kiss only underlines this choice - he still "loves" her. BUT. By "going back" or more correctly pretending to do so, the author dodges the bullet to explain how they're dealing with the problems - the stigmatization, the social backlash, their parents' reactions, all the likes. It reminds me of an old project manager joke for impossible tasks: You plan it all through, and then just add a step "here is where a miracle happens". Exactly THAT is the cop-out. The author capitulates and refuses to resolve the problems. That all "happens in-between and we don't see it".

Also, it just doesn't fit with my life experiences. That's not how romantic love works - especially not the self-centered kind that Kirino employs.

I kind of agree with Mentar here, but honestly, to me it feels like the author gave the series an oddly appropriate ending, unsatisfying as it was.

The whole way through it felt like Fushimi was writing the series in a "have your cake and eat it too" manner, trying to combine madcap comedy of traditional anime romcoms with an undercurrent of more serious examinations of incest like Koi Kaze. And in the end it wasn't a fully successful marriage. The comedy bits were entertaining enough with plenty of laugh-out-loud moments and poking fun at otaku culture, but the more serious bits played up the drama of the societal problems Kyosuke and Kirino would face, then throwing it all away at the end without fully resolving it.

It's like he was caught between the choices of a "screw it, let's end this as zany as possible" ending, a more realistic ending of them acknowledging their feelings and moving beyond them because the relationship wasn't possible, or a somber ending where they hook up despite everyone's protests and march onward to whatever the future holds. Instead he does the meet you halfway approach and delivers the half-assed "maybe ever after" ambiguity.

Hopefully that 10 year timeskip epilogue provides a more satisfying conclusion, because the one given seems decidedly
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Old 2013-06-07, 06:27   Link #2433
DevG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GVN.Chaos View Post
Actually, Volume 11 was done in 10 days. After seeing the sudden push from Vol 12, I decided to post everything I had online, despite that only the first four chapter had passed proofreader.
Anyway, with 392 pages, it would need at least 78 hours of working non--stop. While it's possible to finish in a week, don't set your hope too high.



Personally, I can go with this ending. This is as close as a Kirino-end that we could get without having to deal with the society pressure for a incest end. Of course, if Kirino just keep the ring it would be even better
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR HARD WORK ON VOLUME 11

After reading the spoilers for kirino x Kyosuke, I felt sad I spoiled it but I was litterly bursting with energy that I couldnt lay down anymore on my iphone, I grabbed my headphones and blasteted the main theme of oreimo, and did 50 pushups as fast as I could then 300 jumping jacks, 35 pushups then 200 jumping jacks thne 20 pushups and 100 jumping jacks!

IF I HADNT DONE THAT I WOULD STILL BE HYPER ALL MORNING LONG! THIS REALLY PUT SO MUCH ENERGY IN ME!


I only wish that feeling lasted even longer! If i read volume 12 to that point, I litterly could have run a marathon HAHA! I REALLY FEEL THIS WAY

CHAOS THANK YOU AGAIN, Please try your best to get volume 12 out asap If you need anything please ask me, ask me ask me!

IM SOO HAPPY THIS IS WHAT I WANTED FROM THE START Kirino X Kyosuke ftw!!!

Finally after 11 volumes the real romance came in, but the author NEEDS to follow up on this!!

GOOD LUCK CHAOSS I will ask arround for the raws so I Can give them to you, everyone help him! Ask all reviewers to get the raws to him!!!!
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Old 2013-06-07, 06:32   Link #2434
DevG
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OH YAH WHILE I WAIT FOR VOLUME 12 I have to re-read all the volumes I started oreimo light novels around volune 6 to contniune from the anime but since It has come to this, And I have to wait for volume 12, Re-reading them seems like a really nice idea Lets doo this -

Choas you have my 100% Support
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Old 2013-06-07, 06:33   Link #2435
sooj
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im pretty sure the way it ended was the best we could get giving the situation for a kirino/kyousuke ending
so im
kinda
really happy like this
also im
just
enjoying a whole lot the kirino haters' reaction
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Old 2013-06-07, 06:44   Link #2436
Kakurin-san
ねぇ、無理は禁物よ?
 
 
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Continuing the translation of the translation:

Spoiler for Continuation Chapter 1:
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Old 2013-06-07, 06:57   Link #2437
tommythecat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matapat View Post
I kind of agree with Mentar here, but honestly, to me it feels like the author gave the series an oddly appropriate ending, unsatisfying as it was.

The whole way through it felt like Fushimi was writing the series in a "have your cake and eat it too" manner, trying to combine madcap comedy of traditional anime romcoms with an undercurrent of more serious examinations of incest like Koi Kaze. And in the end it wasn't a fully successful marriage. The comedy bits were entertaining enough with plenty of laugh-out-loud moments and poking fun at otaku culture, but the more serious bits played up the drama of the societal problems Kyosuke and Kirino would face, then throwing it all away at the end without fully resolving it.

It's like he was caught between the choices of a "screw it, let's end this as zany as possible" ending, a more realistic ending of them acknowledging their feelings and moving beyond them because the relationship wasn't possible, or a somber ending where they hook up despite everyone's protests and march onward to whatever the future holds. Instead he does the meet you halfway approach and delivers the half-assed "maybe ever after" ambiguity.

Hopefully that 10 year timeskip epilogue provides a more satisfying conclusion, because the one given seems decidedly
I always thought of the series as toying with incest, sort of a parody or satire of it. I eventually could tell that Kirino indeed loved Kyousuke but the reverse still seems flimsy to me. Yeah hindsight of all his actions "prove" his feelings but this ending is far too abrupt in scope and I have no idea if there was resolution for any of the things that I think truly mattered yet. Well I guess I can assume one of them was resolved, they repaired their bond, they just repaired it a little too well and are lovers instead.
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Old 2013-06-07, 07:02   Link #2438
Wilshere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SigUp View Post
Continuing the translation of the translation:

Spoiler for Continuation Chapter 1:
So does chapter 1 end here or there is another continuation?
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Old 2013-06-07, 07:02   Link #2439
cheesie
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Incest end.

Did anyone really expect otherwise?

Their relationship was never a commentary on how sweet/fuzzy bros and sisters can be, as some would adamantly take it, and I'm glad this volume puts it to rest.

I mean, I would vomit in my brother's face if we were to go 10% of where Kyousuke/Kirino went in the entire novel series.

Cheers for KxK however, have always supported them.
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Old 2013-06-07, 07:04   Link #2440
larethian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SigUp View Post
Continuing the translation of the translation:

Spoiler for Continuation Chapter 1:
It feels so creepy (sending shivers) to me now that I'm not sure whether I can actually read the actual volume now. I don't know why, this never happened with my eroge, but in Oreimo, it feels creepy to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheesie View Post
Incest end.

Did anyone really expect otherwise?

Their relationship was never a commentary on how sweet/fuzzy bros and sisters can be, as some would adamantly take it, and I'm glad this volume puts it to rest.

I mean, I would vomit in my brother's face if we were to go 10% of where Kyousuke/Kirino went in the entire novel series.

Cheers for KxK however, have always supported them.
Probably not starting from the later volumes.
But if you are talking right from volume 1, then yes. You can read the first few pages of this thread to see.
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