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Old 2013-06-09, 19:42   Link #2861
mark1246
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That the ending is a incest ending, I mean I'm glad Kyosuke & Kirino are together, but I know deep down in the end I cant see the parents accepting this, and in reality............ it kind of sad when you think about it after reading the novel, Im not being a downer but it get of true, did anyone have this thoughts or complaints about the ending?
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Old 2013-06-09, 19:42   Link #2862
finalfury
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Originally Posted by sleepingleo View Post
Yep, it will continue until daddy police officer put Kyousuke's ass into jail. For life if possible.

Really after reading Kuroneko and Ayase's parts and the afterword of the author i changed my status from sad to enraged with the shitty god of this world, a.k.a, the author. Was it necessary for two good (fictional if you prefer) girls go through the pain of falling in love with a douche that ended telling them "Hmm yeah you know, i prefer to tap my sister". Say what?

This shitty author says:

"With that, I thought it really seemed as if the characters are actual people in real life."

No sir, goverment (from most countries in this real life) is there to prevent, or at least try to, from people from marrying their blood-related siblings.

For me this conclusion renders the volumes 5, 8, 10, and Kuroneko's spinoff manga meaningless and pointless. If he wanted pair siblings from the beggining I don't see the point in exploring other love interests, other than making likeable characters and milk money from that, which i'm sure was goal. If it was for a formless cheap reason like "character development" there were better ways without the need of explore alternative love interests.

Many people hate Manami for her hidden agenda, but is that really fair? Anyone has the right to try to monopolize their love interest, just as Kirino did. In other hand, Manami was also the voice of reason there, siblings must not be lovers, it's an axiom in society, doesn't need an explanation. If you remember Manami never interfered with Kuroneko and Kyousuke's relationship, and I'm sure she didn't lack drive to do it, but she didn't, she respected Kyousuke position. But when your love interest is going in direct collision to social and legal scorn, the least you can do is try to stop it. Sure she did have a dark side, but was that really so dark? Just by trying to drill Kirino a truth: "Siblings cannot be lovers, that's not normal". She tried to shape Kyosuke to fit her tastes, many people do, Kirino did the same, so what is wrong with that?

In the end, it's a matter of feelings, thus it's a subjective business. But the law is non-negotiable, parents feelings and other friends (Manami's and Kuronekos families) aren't either, and I'm sure everyone of those would appeal to common sense to disqualify Kirino and Kyousuke's realationship as immoral and abnormal.

I don't know if the author will suffer any retaliation from goverment for this controvertial incest ending, but I for one will do the most that reader can do: Never read any other of his work, never recommend any of his works and express my deep dissapointment in reviews.
Your opinion is fine and all, but the law isn't as rigid as stone and social stigmas don't last forever.
Same thing has been said and is still being said about homosexual relationships, but nowadays, people are trying to get rid of that social stigma and allow for same-sex marriages. The sheer flexibility of laws doesn't give it the rigidity to be enforced as I think you make it seem(giving false information to the IRS is illegal, yet people do it anyway). Society also has somewhat started to condemn Muslims due to the terrorist attacks while the Civil Rights Movement has shown that blind disregard for a specific group of people based on specific characteristics is not justifiable. Why blame an entire group of people for what a few did? I don't have a problem with your opinion, just with your view on the law. And Kyousuke's dad is probably the type who wouldn't give a damm about the law if it involved his daughter(If he did Mikagami in volume 7, he could have been tried for assault on a minor or sued at the very least). He also handed off his daughter to Kyousuke, in a manner of speaking and would trust her with him rather than a stranger and didn't believe that they were incestuously involved in volume 10 even though the evidence suggested otherwise.
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Old 2013-06-09, 19:44   Link #2863
sleepingleo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
...they kissed twice. They didn't have sex. Nothing illegal happened at all. It's not even "incest".
I only mentioned the retalition thing because a previous poster mentioned, i sure know it will not happen.

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Originally Posted by finalfury View Post
Your opinion is fine and all, but the law isn't as rigid as stone and social stigmas don't last forever.
Same thing has been said and is still being said about homosexual relationships, but nowadays, people are trying to get rid of that social stigma and allow for same-sex marriages. The sheer flexibility of laws doesn't give it the rigidity to be enforced as I think you make it seem(giving false information to the IRS is illegal, yet people do it anyway). Society also has somewhat started to condemn Muslims due to the terrorist attacks while the Civil Rights Movement has shown that blind disregard for a specific group of people based on specific characteristics is not justifiable. Why blame an entire group of people for what a few did? I can search for more info if you want.
Well, for now I'm judging with my values, my country society values, and what from a non-japanese-japanese-society-observer values. Sure, things change, over time. But right here and now, that is unacceptable. In 100 years my post might be seen as ludicrous at best, who knows.

Last edited by sleepingleo; 2013-06-09 at 19:48. Reason: +
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Old 2013-06-09, 19:45   Link #2864
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Originally Posted by tommythecat View Post
Clearly there is something between them but it seems to me that at least Kirino isn't happy about Kyousuke's possible change of heart.
I still don't understand this view. After allllll that happened in this story, you think she's not happy that Kyousuke still returns her feelings? (How can you still believe her tsundere comments, even when she's been lying through her teeth from the get-go about her feelings?)

Well, I guess there's no point arguing. People will interpret it how they will at this point.
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Old 2013-06-09, 19:51   Link #2865
s0beit
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Originally Posted by sleepingleo View Post
words words words
Meanwhile I bought a copy of 9, 10, 11 and 12.

To each their own I guess.

EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark1246 View Post
That the ending is a incest ending, I mean I'm glad Kyosuke & Kirino are together, but I know deep down in the end I cant see the parents accepting this, and in reality............ it kind of sad when you think about it after reading the novel, Im not being a downer but it get of true, did anyone have this thoughts or complaints about the ending?
Personally, I don't see how their mom and dad knew absolutely nothing about it. By the way, didn't Dad say he'd talk to Kyousuke about Kirino later? What ever happened to that?
Then there's his telling words: I know about everything that happens in my house.

And such. Personally, between pictures going missing and all the other stuff, I think Dad had hints. How is it possible not to?
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Old 2013-06-09, 19:54   Link #2866
tommythecat
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
I still don't understand this view. After allllll that happened in this story, you think she's not happy that Kyousuke still returns her feelings? (How can you still believe her tsundere comments, even when she's been lying through her teeth from the get-go about her feelings?)

Well, I guess there's no point arguing. People will interpret it how they will at this point.
When did I say that? No offense but just because she's a tsundere doesn't make everything she says to Kyousuke a double meaning of how much she is hopelessly in love with him.

They both agreed it couldn't work and stopped. So Kyousuke decides not to, and she isn't thrilled about it. She knows it's wrong and no good will likely come of it. You said yourself in your own post "where it goes from here is anyone's guess" so how is my interpretation somehow wrong now? Seriously...
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Old 2013-06-09, 19:57   Link #2867
s0beit
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Originally Posted by tommythecat View Post
When did I say that? No offense but just because she's a tsundere doesn't make everything she says to Kyousuke a double meaning of how much she is hopelessly in love with him.

They both agreed it couldn't work and stopped. So Kyousuke decides not to, and she isn't thrilled about it. She knows it's wrong and no good will likely come of it. You said yourself in your own post "where it goes from here is anyone's guess" so how is my interpretation somehow wrong now? Seriously...
Even if your interpretation is that they went back to 'normal' out of obligation, do you think people really just fall out of love like that? Life must be easy for you...
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Old 2013-06-09, 20:00   Link #2868
tommythecat
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Originally Posted by s0beit View Post
Even if your interpretation is that they went back to 'normal' out of obligation, do you think people really just fall out of love like that? Life must be easy for you...
More people putting words in my mouth. THIS is exactly the reason she could want to do more counseling. Their feelings wont just disappear overnight so they need ground rules if they don't want to continue their relationship.

This isn't some insane concept here.
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Old 2013-06-09, 20:02   Link #2869
dragon1412
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well i don't think he is forcing his opinion on you, it's more like he just making an argument with his own interpretation, as you said, this is your own interpretation and he is just didn't agree with it. There is no right or wrong, if you don't agree just speak out your mind. We all have diffirent culture, sense of value, for some people like s0beit value emotion over society common sense and there are guys who value society value over feeling likes you, don't say that people put word in your mouth if you don't try to understand them 1st.
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Old 2013-06-09, 20:04   Link #2870
seangel92
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Originally Posted by tommythecat View Post
More people putting words in my mouth. THIS is exactly the reason she could want to do more counseling. Their feelings wont just disappear overnight so they need ground rules if they don't want to continue their relationship.

This isn't some insane concept here.
This is fiction, you don't know if they gonna be together or not, don't search logic in fiction. Only the "10 years later" could make us close the ending.
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Old 2013-06-09, 20:05   Link #2871
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^ Dude, that's the WEAKEST argument I have seen when it comes to pointing out logical flaws in written stories.
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Old 2013-06-09, 20:06   Link #2872
finalfury
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Originally Posted by sleepingleo View Post
Well, for now I'm judging with my values, my country society values, and what from a non-japanese-japanese-society-observer values. Sure, things change, over time. But right here and now, that is unacceptable. In 100 years my post might be seen as ludicrous at best, who knows.
As long as you judge with your own values on what you believe to be right or wrong, then that is fine. I've seen people mindlessly follow the rules without considering the consequences of their actions, so I responded due to the paranoia developed as a result of dealing with those types of people. For that, I apologize for my behavior towards you.
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Old 2013-06-09, 20:07   Link #2873
tommythecat
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Originally Posted by dragon1412 View Post
well i don't think he is forcing his opinion on you, it's more like he just making an argument with his own interpretation, as you said, this is your own interpretation and he is just didn't agree with it. There is no right or wrong, if you don't agree just speak out your mind. We all have diffirent culture, sense of value, for some people like s0beit value emotion over society common sense and there are guys who value society value over feeling likes you, don't say that people put word in your mouth if you don't try to understand them 1st.
Yeah he seems to be real sweet saying life must be easy for me, diminishing my opinion as some child-like fantasy. I'm defending my thoughts on the matter plain and simple.
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Old 2013-06-09, 20:12   Link #2874
dragon1412
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Originally Posted by tommythecat View Post
Yeah he seems to be real sweet saying life must be easy for me, diminishing my opinion as some child-like fantasy. I'm defending my thoughts on the matter plain and simple.
And again as i said, diffirent sense of value, you value society image while he value emotion. He said life must be easy for you because he think if he can be like you then life is easy, same thing to you because you think that's he is diminishing your opinion as child-like fantasy.In the end, it's just you who interpret his word like that, if you don't like the way he put it, just confirmed it 1st before fanning the flame, look at how leo does it.
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Old 2013-06-09, 20:16   Link #2875
finalfury
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And again as i said, diffirent sense of value, you value society image while he value emotion. He said life must be easy for you because he think if he can be like you then life is easy, same thing to you because you think that's he is diminishing your opinion as child-like fantasy.In the end, it's just you who interpret his word like that, if you don't like the way he put it, just confirmed it 1st before fanning the flame, look at how leo does it.
Basically said it much better than I ever could.
Edit: Differences and disagreements over opinions, ideals, beliefs etc. is what leads to wars and other events which can negatively impact the world.
Edit#2: Confused you with someone else. My mistake.
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Old 2013-06-09, 20:18   Link #2876
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Originally Posted by tommythecat View Post
No offense but just because she's a tsundere doesn't make everything she says to Kyousuke a double meaning of how much she is hopelessly in love with him.
Sorry, I'm not trying to be snarky, but... it doesn't?

If she were really mad, she could have just walked off to her gathering alone and left Kyousuke to stew about what he did, and scold him when she gets home. But to them "life counselling" has a very special meaning. She recorded all of them and kept them along with her precious album of him. It's the thing that started their rekindled relationship, and now she's starting it again. And despite running off initially, she still calls out to him and waits for him to catch up. So why run off in the first place? I would assume that it's because she's embarrassed, not mad.

Again, this is just my interpretation. Of course everyone is allowed to have their own interpretation, but I think there is some burden to justify your interpretation using the evidence of the character's past behaviour in the story. So, to me anyway, your interpretation of Kirino "not being happy" about Kyousuke's confirmation of his feelings seems out of character, hence I doubt it. I've tried to provide the rationale for my belief and doubt. You can certainly doubt me too, but I am just seeking the evidence that supports your belief, because I just don't see it. I apologize if this ever came across as if I was attacking you.


Edit: I would also like to submit as anecdotal evidence the lyrics to the Anime's Second Season OP theme, that will almost certainly be played during the last scene of the anime. Particularly the bridge to the ending; it's strikingly appropriate.
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Old 2013-06-09, 20:18   Link #2877
tommythecat
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Originally Posted by dragon1412 View Post
And again as i said, diffirent sense of value, you value society image while he value emotion. He said life must be easy for you because he think if he can be like you then life is easy, same thing to you because you think that's he is diminishing your opinion as child-like fantasy.In the end, it's just you who interpret his word like that, if you don't like the way he put it, just confirmed it 1st before fanning the flame, look at how leo does it.
My opinions have nothing to do with societal values, don't really know how that got started. My opinion is of the characters and I interpret them, to Kirino societal pressures are probably a real concern so perhaps that's why this somehow morphed into my values.

Anyway, sure next time I'll be less argumentative. I just don't like people diminishing my opinion as though I'm too "stupid" to see the proof all around me. Proof is something indisputable, Kirino and Kyousukes relationship is not quite that cut and dry.

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Sorry, I'm not trying to be snarky, but... it doesn't?

If she were really mad, she could have just walked off to her gathering alone and left Kyousuke to stew about what he did, and scold him when she gets home. But to them "life counselling" has a very special meaning. She recorded all of them and kept them along with her precious album of him. It's the thing that started their rekindled relationship, and now she's starting it again. And despite running off initially, she still calls out to him and waits for him to catch up. So why run off in the first place? I would assume that it's because she's embarrassed, not mad.

Again, this is just my interpretation. Of course everyone is allowed to have their own interpretation, but I think there is some burden to justify your interpretation using the evidence of the character's past behaviour in the story. So, to me anyway, your interpretation of Kirino "not being happy" about Kyousuke's confirmation of his feelings seems out of character, hence I doubt it. I've tried to provide the rationale for my belief and doubt. You can certainly doubt me too, but I am just seeking the evidence that supports your belief, because I just don't see it. I apologize if this ever came across as if I was attacking you.
She's not happy because he broke their promise. You can cherry pick all sorts of things to reaffirm your position and I can disagree with how you interpret events and things. I'm not trying to be a dick or argumentative but when you make your point you make it sound as though if you haven't arrived at this conclusion you are an idiot. As more information has come out I've changed my position I'm not infallible but right now my position is not a huge stretch even when considering Kirino and Kyousuke's personalities.

The life counselling started because Kirino had a problem and thus a new round of sessions will be for a new problem. That problem is them still caring for each other and working it out, whether that means fuck the world and lets be together or time to set ground rules so we can't be inapproiate anymore is anyone's guess. Unless you can think of an actual other reason for them to be holding the counselling.
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Old 2013-06-09, 20:26   Link #2878
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in short, how long do you think it takes to be animated the whole story?, months, years?
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Old 2013-06-09, 20:28   Link #2879
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in short, how long do you think it takes to be animated the whole story?, months, years?
The last three episodes should appear within a few months of the end of the TV episode airing (so probably late-Summer/early-Fall?), and the Blu-Rays/DVDs come out in December and January respectively.
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Old 2013-06-09, 20:28   Link #2880
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in short, how long do you think it takes to be animated the whole story?, months, years?
A few months.
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