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Old 2013-06-10, 15:29   Link #3001
virox
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seangel92 View Post
Have you seen Toradora? Taiga leads the Top 1 of Tsunderes. Kirino or Taiga, I can't make a decision.
Shana is also waaaay up there.
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Old 2013-06-10, 15:30   Link #3002
ArturEngel
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Originally Posted by Tennedealer22 View Post
I have a question to all Kirino shippers...up to this point, why do you guys like Kirino, out of all other heroines?
Kirino is just special. There is nothing you can say about her that would completely discribe her indentity. Her expressions are so full of life and amusing, that i just can't resist her charisma.
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Old 2013-06-10, 15:33   Link #3003
s0beit
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
I actually have to twitch a bit at Kirino being compared to Taiga. Taiga evolves quite consistently through the series. Kirino, not so much til the end.
I would disagree there, a bunch actually, and I like them both.
Kirino evolves over time more than Taiga does, outwardly and inwardly. It's subtle, though.

Taiga changes over time too, but she still feels like the same person from beginning to end, with no major changes in character. She's always just been Taiga, just the focus of her affections shifts around the middle.
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Old 2013-06-10, 15:38   Link #3004
seangel92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by virox View Post
Shana is also waaaay up there.
Shana has no chance versus Taiga.

Quote:
Originally Posted by s0beit View Post
I would disagree there, a bunch actually, and I like them both.
Kirino evolves over time more than Taiga does, outwardly and inwardly. It's subtle, though.

Taiga changes over time too, but she still feels like the same person from beginning to end, with no major changes in character. She's always just been Taiga, just the focus of her affections shifts around the middle.
Toradora have a better ending in the light novels and Taiga evolves properly. She faces her problems and don't run away anymore. The true ending: http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/in...ume10_Epilogue

She evolves until the end and maintains it. The anime was a rush, the same for Oreimo.
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Old 2013-06-10, 15:39   Link #3005
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Originally Posted by SigUp View Post
Part 8 Chapter 3

Spoiler for Part 8 Chapter 3:
Gosh, I can't contain my tears anymore. Very good job on the translation though, can't wait for chapter 4.
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Old 2013-06-10, 15:40   Link #3006
Vexx
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Originally Posted by s0beit View Post
I would disagree there, a bunch actually, and I like them both.
Kirino evolves over time more than Taiga does, outwardly and inwardly. It's subtle, though.

Taiga changes over time too, but she still feels like the same person from beginning to end, with no major changes in character. She's always just been Taiga, just the focus of her affections shifts around the middle.
Well, I'll admit I'm having massive problems with the mechanics of the recent storyline constructions and even much of the dialog being handed to characters at the moment if the rough translations are accurate, so I'm trying to sit quietly until I see the entire volume.

So it may not be the character Kirino herself so much as the story she's in. Like I said, trying to sit quietly
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Old 2013-06-10, 15:43   Link #3007
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I actually wouldn't say Shana was a tsundere either. (And >>Taiga, at least for me.) Disregarding the anime which rather exaggerated things she initially didn't even know what love was, went through a bit of a phase then was perfectly straightforward with her feelings for the rest of the series. It was just beautiful to watch.

As for Kirino...well, to be perfectly honest I do believe both Kuroneko and Ayase have more good scenes. Compared to Kirino, many of whose scenes are just her being somewhat stuck up or dishonest, it's initially hard to compare. But the few good scenes she does get, such as in v8, are just so powerful they blow the rest out of the water. I think that's what comes through in the end, the realisation that the bond the two share is so much deeper than all the superficial things you see on the surface. For me anyway.
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Old 2013-06-10, 15:48   Link #3008
seangel92
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My Tsundere Top3:
1- Taiga
2- Kirino
3- Suzumiya Haruhi

For me.
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Old 2013-06-10, 15:51   Link #3009
kentasaiba
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1- Kotoko Takano
2 - Kirino Kousaka
3 - Reo Kawamura
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Old 2013-06-10, 15:51   Link #3010
virox
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seangel92 View Post
Shana has no chance versus Taiga.
I respectfully disagree. I really like them both.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seitsuki
I actually wouldn't say Shana was a tsundere either. (And >>Taiga, at least for me.) Disregarding the anime which rather exaggerated things she initially didn't even know what love was, went through a bit of a phase then was perfectly straightforward with her feelings for the rest of the series. It was just beautiful to watch.
That's true. We could still consider her acting towards Yuuji when she first noticed those unclear feelings as tsundere, by (nowaday's) definition. Whatever, I simply love her.

Spoiler for Shana, duh:
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Old 2013-06-10, 15:54   Link #3011
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Shana is the best tsundere. For me, I like Kirino's character design and the fact that after reading "The Taming of the Shrew" these tsundere characters are really easy to handle.
Taiga was enjoyable but I didn't see much character development involving her, more like more relationship development I guess. :/
I'll admit that the drama towards the end of the series made me cringe.
Edit: Well I'll be, after reading the epilogue, now I need to go read Toradora light novels now. =/
Edit#2: I was an Ami shipper back then, so maybe that's why Taiga isn't as memorable to me. That and she has no memorable characteristics other than typical tsundere traits. At least Shana had her flame haze powers. :/
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Old 2013-06-10, 16:41   Link #3012
Phantom
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Why are you guys talking about Tsunderes all the sudden?

On the other hand, in the terms of Tsundere traits, Louise wins by a landslide.
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Old 2013-06-10, 16:55   Link #3013
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I really like the way they handled the end of Chapter 3, because it really puts a point on all of Kirino's behaviour throughout the story, and the internal conflict that drives so much of her actions. "Don't mix 2D and 3D" is something she kept trying to tell herself. Whenever she called him "disgusting" for his feelings for her, she was looking right in a mirror. And she "hated" him because she loved him, but he's the one person she isn't allowed to love in that way. So she had no choice but to hate him, because he could never return her feelings -- or so she thought.

Or in other words, from the supposed preface of the Reunion short story:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposedly-leaked Short Story Preface View Post
I have a "secret" that I can't tell anyone.
It's totally precious and beloved, but sometimes painful and annoying.
I've thought so many times of throwing it away... but I can't. I just can't discard it.
Every time I reach for it, it comforts me; it cheers me up; it makes me want to cry. It's that kind of secret.
It's something I just can't do anything about anymore.
Without throwing it away, but also without being a point of pride, it's something I can never tell anyone, and must keep hidden 'till the grave.
And I'm not making excuses...
But what else can I do?
Kirino's secret was never her hobby. Kirino's real secret was her deep-set feelings for Kyousuke. A secret she absolutely, positively, under any circumstance, could never tell to anyone.

And all of this crescendos in to a giant climax at the end of Chapter 3 as she finally has to come face-to-face with the very defence mechanism she's been using to try to hide and deflect her feelings all this time. "Don't mix 2D and 3D." "It's disgusting." "This isn't eroge." "I hate him." "It can never work out." Over and over and over. Until she finally lets go.

"Yes."


(Regardless of whatever ending I expected or whatever else, and despite the fact that the theatrics are dialed to 11, this stuff still renders me a complete pile of sobbing goo in the end. )
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Old 2013-06-10, 17:17   Link #3014
protheus
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
And she "hated" him because she loved him, but he's the one person she isn't allowed to love in that way.
I just registered to say this, it was obvious from start, that's why she pushed him away all the time, that's why she was concerned on his opinion about the DVD she lost, the hobby she has, if "he" finds her weird because of that, that was her first concern (notice she didn't ask at first how would people think, but what he thinks). The rest of the storyline was just a long and subtle, but continuous confirmation of this fact.

My opinion alone, but I like judging a book by it's starting point, and what I saw from the start was this.
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Old 2013-06-10, 17:24   Link #3015
seangel92
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Kirino's secret was never her hobby. Kirino's real secret was her deep-set feelings for Kyousuke. A secret she absolutely, positively, under any circumstance, could never tell to anyone.
I am completely agree with you. I hope that they can make emotive scenes with all this feels, that they can make us cry.
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Old 2013-06-10, 17:36   Link #3016
relentlessflame
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Originally Posted by protheus View Post
I just registered to say this, it was obvious from start, that's why she pushed him away all the time, that's why she was concerned on his opinion about the DVD she lost, the hobby she has, if "he" finds her weird because of that, that was her first concern (notice she didn't ask at first how would people think, but what he thinks). The rest of the storyline was just a long and subtle, but continuous confirmation of this fact.

My opinion alone, but I like judging a book by it's starting point, and what I saw from the start was this.
Honestly... this is what I personally felt instinctively from the start as well (my comments from the time are still around...), but it wasn't something that could be proven beyond just a "feeling". And it turns out that she did have reasons for being estranged for her brother that weren't simply her being "tsundere", and she really did have legitimate cause for concern about her hobbies being exposed (and it sure did cause a mess when they were). So there was definitely enough else going on there that, even if you felt like "where there's smoke, there's fire", it was obscured well enough. The hints were actually there (like the album), but it was definitely played in an incredibly sly way by the author. As I said before, though, I think this is the sort of series where knowing the ending clarifies the way everything before should be interpreted. But I won't go so far as to say it was "obvious"; it was done such that, with a little slight-of-hand, it could all be dismissed as "we'll never know for sure". So in that sense, I consider it "well-played".
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Old 2013-06-10, 18:23   Link #3017
GVN.Chaos
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Originally Posted by Tennedealer22 View Post
I have a question to all Kirino shippers...up to this point, why do you guys like Kirino, out of all other heroines?
Aside from her funny tsuntsun moment, I like the way she gave everything her all. Looking back at the first season, I already like her when she showed the huge eroge stash with a smile on her face. I like the way she doesn't deny her hobby, her interest (most of them anyway)
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Old 2013-06-10, 18:23   Link #3018
protheus
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
... I consider it "well-played".
My mistake, obvious is a bit over the top. But you are right, it was incredibly well played from start. If someone re-reads / re-watches the entire series now with what we know of the possible ending, all the signs passed over at first glance will appear. This author really knew what he was doing and what he wanted even before the starting line of it's novel race.


PS: Sorry for cutting short the quotes, but I hate it when a page gets full of only duplicate posts.
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Old 2013-06-10, 20:02   Link #3019
Sakura_Tsuki
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Finally i have catched up with reading. My eyes are tired...........

Damn as a Kirino shipper chapter 3 was great with the confession. Can't wait for chapter 4 with the bitch manami.

The part of kuroneko and ayase was very sad. I liked the chapter with ayase the most. When there was a flashback. When they were together in the appartment and ayase taking care of him. Damn, i cant explain it but it gave me a warm feeling when reading it. The ending was sad. Maybe as a kirino lover i also liked ayase a bit.

Reading the last part of chapter 3. It became clear to me that Kyousuke really loved kirino even if they have the fake wedding in chapter 4. The love between them is Mutual indeed. Kirino is a tsundere. That it is why she reacts that way. It is pretty clear. Beside him refusing all girls makes it pretty clear to me that this writter didnt want to go a harem route. So calling it a open ending is out of the question here.

I see the girls now more as characters who helped Kyousuke to realize his true feelings. And they knew from the start that he liked his sister. But he wasn't aware of it. And as for Kirino her feelings. it is pretty clear that she loves him but because the big tsundere she is. It is always the same reaction. YOU ARE STUPID? but her feelings are clear.

Looking on what we have now on rough translations and the ending words etc i can conclude the following things:

For me i interpet the ending as following:

Kirino loves kyousuke and kyousuke loves her. Reading everything till now how can there be a doubt that the love is not Mutual. You dont go reject everyone and face the final boss so that you will go back to being siblings? doesnt make sense to me. And on the part of Kirino. All that time she played eroge with Kyousuke. And the imouto type of games it made it clear to me that she loved him.

In the ending part he kisses her, she reacts the usual tsundere way (so she is not honest with her feelings, so you cant say that she didnt like it) and says he needs a live counseling. Live counseling from the start is something special for them. And they start it again.

So the conclusion is.: To me it is clear that it is a 100% kirino route ending.
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Old 2013-06-10, 20:31   Link #3020
tommythecat
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God it's really hard to try and read comments at this point, everyone's talking about details in the summaries and I'm just waiting for the full translation so I don't want to spoil every detail.
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