AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Ore no Imouto

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2013-06-13, 20:37   Link #3421
liemtodaisu
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Um, no - that really isn't how it works. Two entirely different situations. I suspect true polyamory might be easier to get in the docket. (the kind where no one is being dominated, sold, enslaved, etc.)
Humanity is reaching and going through many taboos atm and will continue to do so. Such as gay, incest, immortality, moving out into space, cloning. Things change through time, we still cannot tell .
liemtodaisu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-06-13, 20:39   Link #3422
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
Sigh ... it isn't a "taboo" issue, it's a genetics concern. Incest laws largely derive from concern about procreation risks (though those same laws are pretty poor in actually keeping up with the science).
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-06-13, 20:40   Link #3423
tommythecat
Contrarian S-class
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Who isn't okay with immortality?!? I'd kill someone to be immortal.
tommythecat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-06-13, 20:41   Link #3424
dragon1412
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: somewhere in Asia
I agree with that as well, things always change, it's just a matter of time. And Incest is actually on a much smaller scale than racism and slavery as they are represent an entire era, the things with it is simply a matter of perception, much like gay and lesbian. and if you talk about procreation, read a few pages back, i believed there was a discussion about this with actual percentage.
dragon1412 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-06-13, 20:42   Link #3425
liemtodaisu
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Sigh ... it isn't a "taboo" issue, it's a genetics concern. Incest laws largely derive from concern about procreation risks (though those same laws are pretty poor in actually keeping up with the science).
It will change who knows . Genetic risk might increase 2 times but still science will fix it through time. You know human beings are scary .
liemtodaisu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-06-13, 20:43   Link #3426
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
yeah, eventually incest, polyamory, even gay couples might be able to produce genetically a-ok offspring thanks to genetic tweaking. It usually takes the legal system longer to catch up with society/tech/science.


My issues with the tale that is apparently being told has to do with feeling like the author may have tripped while juggling. Waiting for the last full volume translation and the epilogue story before i make my call though.
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-06-13, 20:45   Link #3427
tommythecat
Contrarian S-class
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
My issues with the tale that is apparently being told has to do with feeling like the author may have tripped while juggling. Waiting for the last full volume translation and the epilogue story before i make my call though.
That or he likes money and picked the thing that'll make the most. And the 10 years later novel bundled with first volume to inflate sales haha good call, they know what they are doing over there at his publishing company.
tommythecat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-06-13, 20:54   Link #3428
s0beit
kiririn.me
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Sigh ... it isn't a "taboo" issue, it's a genetics concern. Incest laws largely derive from concern about procreation risks (though those same laws are pretty poor in actually keeping up with the science).
Incest laws were created and pretty much remain unchanged since prior to us having any advanced knowledge of genetics. It has always been a social taboo first, visceral negative reaction next, and concerns about relationship dynamics and genetics last.

If it was truly a genetics argument, we would have laws against people with huntingtons disease or other genetic defeats from breeding, but nobody makes those arguments because it's mean to pick on the disabled, even though in principal it is the exact same [eugenics] argument. It would not be hard at all to argue that people with far greater genetic risks are breeding like crazy.

There are some countries with some advancements against prohibitions and leaning more toward genetic risk management (mostly between cousins, though), but don't pretend that 'taboo' isn't the primary issue, it absolutely is. Ask anyone and they'll tell you how gross it is, and come up with justifications against it without any knowledge on the subject after the fact.
s0beit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-06-13, 20:57   Link #3429
Sakura_Tsuki
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: En un lugar llamado Tierra
Now i know why there are not so many people on this thread.

I can guess why! It has to do with Valvrave ahahahaha!

On topic: i don't mind the kiss and realtionship between kyousuke and kirino. I dont see them as an incest couple at all. I can't point it out why i think this. But when reading or watching Oreimo it doesn't have that incest vibe that other animes have when dealing with incest relationships.

But volume 12 makes it clear that kirino and kyousuke are more than only plain brother and sister, well there are great hints to think this. I think the writter did a good job on this novel. That is why for me it is the best of the best.
Sakura_Tsuki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-06-13, 21:09   Link #3430
tommythecat
Contrarian S-class
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
way off topic, it boggles my mind people actually like Valvrave and not in an ironic way.

on topic: the incest vibe was downplayed and almost satire so it's easy to assume it wouldn't end that way early on.
tommythecat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-06-13, 21:20   Link #3431
Sakura_Tsuki
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: En un lugar llamado Tierra
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommythecat View Post
way off topic, it boggles my mind people actually like Valvrave and not in an ironic way.

on topic: the incest vibe was downplayed and almost satire so it's easy to assume it wouldn't end that way early on.
Satire? i dont think so. It is like you are saying it is just a joke.

Let me say this. There is more to this story than plain imouto and sister realtionship.

But well everyone his own conclusion. So if you think that, i will respect it.
Sakura_Tsuki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-06-13, 21:38   Link #3432
Soverence
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Where the Sky Touches the Sea
Age: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by mayid View Post
Satire? i dont think so. It is like you are saying it is just a joke.

Let me say this. There is more to this story than plain imouto and sister realtionship.

But well everyone his own conclusion. So if you think that, i will respect it.
I can see where he is coming from though, for most of the early volumes of the novel I thought that there was no chance that they were taking a serious incest route with this story (although it never does get that serious if you ask me, it ends very light-hearted in this matter). Even with the Eroge as the motivating factor I believed it was going to be a out there sibling reconciling story. The idea that it was could possibly go a incest route didn't even enter my mind until around the last chapter of volume 8. Hell even up to the end of volume 11 I argued on here why the story wouldn't have a Kirino end from my personal interpretations (although I saw there were other interpretations which is why I am okay with this ending as well from a writing standpoint).
Soverence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-06-13, 22:04   Link #3433
bakAnki
あやせたんの剣
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: bakanki.blogspot.com
Chapter 5 was very hnnngh worthy. I guess it's right that the more tsun a character is, the deadlier they are when they become dere

Quote:
Originally Posted by kentasaiba View Post


The next generation:
Yuuno: Oi Aniki! Are you playing eroge again? Kimoi!
Kiro: oooiii! Yuuno-nee, out of my room! Thats just the imouto-eroge I got from mother the other day!
Why does the girl calls the boy 'aniki' and the boy call her with '-nee' honorific? Who is the younger sibling if they are both older ones?

They were the children of Kyousuke and Kirino on 'if universe' from the second PSP game if Kyousuke weren't Daisuke and Yoshino's son. Their names are Ryousuke (older son) and Yuuno (younger daughter).

Quote:
Originally Posted by virox View Post
[IMG]http://ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/61631U8fzrL._AA_.jpg[IMG]
I soooo want that Ayase end card
__________________
bakAnki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-06-13, 22:17   Link #3434
DevG
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
I wish I had an imouto like kirino, after watching this show. I would be much more optimistic, if I hadnt seen this then I would kill my imouto,
DevG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-06-13, 23:02   Link #3435
relentlessflame
 
*Administrator
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
My issues with the tale that is apparently being told has to do with feeling like the author may have tripped while juggling. Waiting for the last full volume translation and the epilogue story before i make my call though.
As more details of the final volume come out, the amount of evidence that was carefully placed in earlier volumes/chapters continues to increase, to the point where at least I can see pretty clearly the way the earlier volumes connect to this last volume. If there is a "fault", though, I would propose the main issue is the author's overarching desire to keep people guessing, which required an ever-increasing amount of distractors and potentially-misleading tangents. This is particularly the case given the author's propensity to make vague insinuations with double-meanings, and I think in a number of cases the translations that are out there (due in some cases to double-translation through Chinese as an intermediary) failed to communicate some of those subtleties. And it also doesn't help that the anime rushed through its material so quickly, so some of the layers of subtlety are similar lost, which spins the interpretation ever so slightly for people who watched the anime first (even if they did read the novel translations later).

(For example, the anime skipped a very important piece of information in terms of catching what happened with Kureneko. The actual sequence in the book was first an image of a person wailing, then Kirino and Kyousuke happy together, and then later revised to being the three of them together. She quickly glossed over the wailing scene as if it were something unrelated, but as it turns out that was foreshadowing the true sequence of events. But it was so easy to glance over that image at the time, and miss the importance of the sequence in the Destiny Record. If you just take the last image on its own as foreshadowing (as is implied in the anime), you're given an entirely different impression. It's written to be deliberately tricky; things you dismiss at first as trivial are actually foreshadowing, and things you think are clear actually have a double-meaning.)

In the end, I think the author and editor biased the story a bit towards "creating an exciting piece of serialized fiction", which builds hype and drives sales, but sometimes leaves you feeling a little bit like you've been taken along for a ride. Mixed between the context-setting flashbacks and critical connecting pieces, the last volume in particular brings out all the fireworks to make for a rather spectacular show. But, at the same time, I can see where some people would say "if this is the story you wanted to tell all along, you didn't need to back-load it so much". In that sense, it's very true to its shounen romantic comedy roots.
__________________
[...]
relentlessflame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-06-13, 23:23   Link #3436
gogetassj7IW
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
many chapters are missing to complete the 12 volume?
gogetassj7IW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-06-13, 23:24   Link #3437
relentlessflame
 
*Administrator
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by gogetassj7IW View Post
many chapters are missing to complete the 12 volume?
There are 6 chapters in Volume 12, and an epilogue.
__________________
[...]
relentlessflame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-06-13, 23:26   Link #3438
gogetassj7IW
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
There are 6 chapters in Volume 12, and an epilogue.
OK, that makes me sad I don't want to end
gogetassj7IW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-06-13, 23:42   Link #3439
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
As more details of the final volume come out, the amount of evidence that was carefully placed in earlier volumes/chapters continues to increase, to the point where at least I can see pretty clearly the way the earlier volumes connect to this last volume. If there is a "fault", though, I would propose the main issue is the author's overarching desire to keep people guessing, which required an ever-increasing amount of distractors and potentially-misleading tangents. This is particularly the case given the author's propensity to make vague insinuations with double-meanings, and I think in a number of cases the translations that are out there (due in some cases to double-translation through Chinese as an intermediary) failed to communicate some of those subtleties. And it also doesn't help that the anime rushed through its material so quickly, so some of the layers of subtlety are similar lost, which spins the interpretation ever so slightly for people who watched the anime first (even if they did read the novel translations later).

(For example, the anime skipped a very important piece of information in terms of catching what happened with Kureneko. The actual sequence in the book was first an image of a person wailing, then Kirino and Kyousuke happy together, and then later revised to being the three of them together. She quickly glossed over the wailing scene as if it were something unrelated, but as it turns out that was foreshadowing the true sequence of events. But it was so easy to glance over that image at the time, and miss the importance of the sequence in the Destiny Record. If you just take the last image on its own as foreshadowing (as is implied in the anime), you're given an entirely different impression. It's written to be deliberately tricky; things you dismiss at first as trivial are actually foreshadowing, and things you think are clear actually have a double-meaning.)

In the end, I think the author and editor biased the story a bit towards "creating an exciting piece of serialized fiction", which builds hype and drives sales, but sometimes leaves you feeling a little bit like you've been taken along for a ride. Mixed between the context-setting flashbacks and critical connecting pieces, the last volume in particular brings out all the fireworks to make for a rather spectacular show. But, at the same time, I can see where some people would say "if this is the story you wanted to tell all along, you didn't need to back-load it so much". In that sense, it's very true to its shounen romantic comedy roots.
That's probably the best interpretation I've seen so far - that the "need" to run all the potentials out as long as possible may have been a bit harder to juggle than advertised. I am getting pretty tired of that horserace stuff, hence my growing preference for seinen and shoujo I suppose (or exceptions in the shounen realm like Toradora! and the like).

I haven't had a chance to read the exact dumpage scenes where Kuro and Ayase get dropkicked - that would feed my emotional opinion of the story and the protagonist himself (rather than the "did author execute well or not", which is an entirely different assessment).
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-06-14, 01:21   Link #3440
frivolity
My posts are frivolous
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
That's probably the best interpretation I've seen so far - that the "need" to run all the potentials out as long as possible may have been a bit harder to juggle than advertised. I am getting pretty tired of that horserace stuff, hence my growing preference for seinen and shoujo I suppose (or exceptions in the shounen realm like Toradora! and the like).

I haven't had a chance to read the exact dumpage scenes where Kuro and Ayase get dropkicked - that would feed my emotional opinion of the story and the protagonist himself (rather than the "did author execute well or not", which is an entirely different assessment).
That's the problem with many RomComs. The authors have to keep adding red herrings along the way in order to keep the readers guessing because once it becomes clear who wins in the end, there will be no more story left to tell! Often times it gets to the point where those red herrings overshadow the actual clues to such an extent that it starts to look like the red herrings are actual clues and vice versa. We only know which is which ex-post - after the story ends - which is generally bad writing.

In some stories, Ichigo 100% in particular, the authors opt to go with the flow and let the ending change accordingly. Many other stories involve the authors abruptly pulling the brakes and forcing the story back to the original ending, which tends to leave a bad taste in the readers' mouths. The latter, however, is sometimes done intentionally in order to let the NTR phenomenon kick in and induce readers to buy the game or manga in order to see their favoured outcome (examples include AkaSaka and KoiChoco).
__________________
frivolity is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
comedy, romance, shounen, siblings

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:22.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.