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Old 2013-06-15, 14:25   Link #3681
Thailog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icewolfnector View Post
You know what's funny about the Epilogue?
Kirino wanted Kyouske to buy a new ring for her hehe
Furthermore Kyouske used the same words as Kirino as a reason after he kissed her.
Exactly!

My impression is the same as yours, that they both want the relationship to continue despite their previous agreement. After buying the ring, Kyousuke took it a step further by initiating the kiss while Kirino reacted in her usual tsun way. Besides, after all they've been thorough, it's hard to imagine them going back to being just siblings again.
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Old 2013-06-15, 14:26   Link #3682
relentlessflame
 
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Originally Posted by finalfury View Post
tl;dr: Fear is the reaction she has due to the event becoming the precedent for future events that lead to a path of no return if not dealt with immediately.
I don't really buy "fear", and here's why: she doesn't really reject him. All she displays at first is shock, but then makes two gestures: 1) that they'll discuss this when they get home, and 2) to beckon him to keep following her. If she were really afraid, she would have run away, or it would have taken her a lot longer to recover.

Now maybe there's uncertainty/anxiety there, and I'm sure the concern about where all this could lead is in both of their minds (which is why they took this path in the first place), but I think it's not fear.

So I think there's truth in what you're saying (she is no doubt concerned about the repercussions, and would certainly be worried about taking another step), but I think she still chooses him anyway. And I would argue that's the key message of that final scene.
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Old 2013-06-15, 14:31   Link #3683
Ricadan
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Originally Posted by finalfury View Post
@SignUp and relentlessflame,
For Kirino's reaction to the second kiss, the interpretation I had was that the reaction was caused due to fear. Fear that if she let him get away with it, they would eventually go to a path of no return. For some couples and the like, sometimes one person will try to convince the other to do something that they initially do not want to do. That is probably why I think Kirino reacted the way she did, because regardless of how much goodwill Kyousuke has, there is no doubt in her mind that he will continue to influence her.
Ergo, preventing something big from happening by striking at the first attempt is her primary motivation for reacting in fear to his actions. I believe in this due to her radio recordings to her future self which shows how much she thinks of the future. This is all probably badly explained tho so please bear with me.
tl;dr: Fear is the reaction she has due to the event becoming the precedent for future events that lead to a path of no return if not dealt with immediately.
I don't think her reaction was completely fearful or completely tsundere-happiness, it was probably a bit of both. Like SigUp said, she definitely has a higher priority of internalizing their relationship and probably would have preferred to keep it that way, which would cause a fearful reaction. But when she calls out to Kyousuke in the end, I would interpret that as her starting to have second thoughts.

Edit: Welp, looks like I just posted the exact same thing as relentlessflame
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Old 2013-06-15, 15:21   Link #3684
Guy Incognito
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SigUp View Post
Epilogue

Spoiler for Epilogue:
this bin bugging me what does yare mean? and thanks for the spoilers.
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Old 2013-06-15, 15:26   Link #3685
Kakurin-san
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Originally Posted by Dovahkyon View Post
this bin bugging me what does yare mean? and thanks for the spoilers.
Yare is something similar to 'oy' or 'oh my' in English.
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Old 2013-06-15, 15:35   Link #3686
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Episode 11 was very funny xDD

It's a sausage! xDD
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Old 2013-06-15, 15:39   Link #3687
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
I don't really buy "fear", and here's why: she doesn't really reject him. All she displays at first is shock, but then makes two gestures: 1) that they'll discuss this when they get home, and 2) to beckon him to keep following her. If she were really afraid, she would have run away, or it would have taken her a lot longer to recover.

Now maybe there's uncertainty/anxiety there, and I'm sure the concern about where all this could lead is in both of their minds (which is why they took this path in the first place), but I think it's not fear.

So I think there's truth in what you're saying (she is no doubt concerned about the repercussions, and would certainly be worried about taking another step), but I think she still chooses him anyway. And I would argue that's the key message of that final scene.
My apologies, I used the wrong word to display my thoughts. After reading your post, I think a better term to describe what I thought was "cautiousness". Fear was just the first thing that came to my mind when I wrote the post but I believe cautiousness is the best term to use when describing how I interpreted her reaction. I think this term also can be applied to how you have interpreted the story since for the most part, I agree with the interpretations you made for the story.

I.E. being cautious about how to handle the relationship after the second kiss sounds more logical than being fearful of the second kiss based on the context of the story, which I thank you for helping me to figure out.

I firmly believe that companionship is what they both desire above all else, and that in itself, will not make them outcasts to society but they both realize(to different degrees) that they have to be careful of what they believe they are entitled to do because of this companionship they now share.

Another reason I had for using fear was when I realized that Kyousuke was the one person who she would change her mind for when it came to big issues. During the fifth volume and 12th volume, it is Kyousuke who manages to convince Kirino to change her mind about important decisions that she made. Based on that line of reasoning, being fearful of him after the second kiss made sense since he was the only person who could convince her to change her mind on issues that others could not i.e. her best friends and even mother and father. I don't think that the momentary fear that she had was enough to counteract her desire to be with him though. :/
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Old 2013-06-15, 16:19   Link #3688
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For the returning to "normal siblings" thing, true they can never be normal as say most of use. After all they've gone though it's impossible, but as normal as they can be. so even if they love each other it's not hopeless for them per say to still moving on in life with a new person?

On the other hand (taking a more moral stand now) If they stay together their secret will most likely come out and all the things Manami say will start to show up. Shame and backlash my drive them apart. that or the pressure of keeping up the lie will get to them and brake them down. Making them come the the realization it's to big for them to handle.

Well not to say their love can't over come it all. I don't like looking at the negative but sometimes you have to. As to better round out ones thing the good and the bed as they say.

Well the ending has been talked about over and over.
All we can do is have the show the point to us now (if they do that) the author seems to like trolling
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Old 2013-06-15, 16:51   Link #3689
protheus
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Exactly the ending I was expecting for this novel from the first one printed and first episode made after it. Since it was made for a large public from start, the ending in a "take it as you like it" kind of way is the most perfect one to do it.

Btw, for me, the ending I took, is they are together (but not a physical relationship) in private.
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Old 2013-06-15, 17:00   Link #3690
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finalfury View Post
After reading your post, I think a better term to describe what I thought was "cautiousness".

[...]

I firmly believe that companionship is what they both desire above all else, and that in itself, will not make them outcasts to society but they both realize(to different degrees) that they have to be careful of what they believe they are entitled to do because of this companionship they now share.
Yeah, I see what you're saying now, and I agree. If what they want most is companionship (i.e. just to be together, and I agree), then the thing they fear most is anything that can break them apart. With the status quo, they can continue being together always. But if they risk too much, they can be separated. So in that sense, I see what you mean now when you said "fear" the first time -- it was a different sense than I was considering. This is sort of like "fear of the unknown" or "fear of change" -- it's rooted in not wanting to lose what you have.

And you're right when you go on to say that Kyousuke is the one who assuages her fears, and that -- in the end -- she trusts him. But at the same time, she doesn't want him to do "something stupid" if it risks what's really important to both of them.

Anyway, it was good to have this conversation -- I think I see where you're coming from now, and we actually weren't as far apart as I thought at first.



Quote:
Originally Posted by KronosPlasma View Post
On the other hand (taking a more moral stand now) If they stay together their secret will most likely come out and all the things Manami say will start to show up. Shame and backlash my drive them apart. that or the pressure of keeping up the lie will get to them and brake them down. Making them come the the realization it's to big for them to handle.

Well not to say their love can't over come it all. I don't like looking at the negative but sometimes you have to. As to better round out ones thing the good and the bed as they say.
Yeah, in the end I would just say that everything worthwhile in life has risks, and there's no such thing as a relationship that doesn't face challenges and crises. My own parents seemed to have a good relationship while I was growing up, but eventually they had a somewhat messy divorce. Obviously the challenges Kirino and Kyousuke face are not the same, and life will be hard, but after all they've already been through together (cut-off from their time growing up together), their bonds run pretty deep. They've probably got as good a shot as any at making it work, at least on a personal level. Dealing with the broader issues will be an every-day struggle they'll have to face together.
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Old 2013-06-15, 21:36   Link #3691
Sakura_Tsuki
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A nice love story. Incest is a big issue, and there are much problems to solve if you want to go this route in a story. Knowing that Oreimo is not a story that needs those sex/lust, breaking up with your family issues, run away with your lover etc to choose a full incest route.

Because if it had this setting. It would destroy this wonderful story for sure.

I think it has been given by the author the best possible ending possible. A ending that he planned from the start in detail. That is how i see it.

You can see it how you want but: they are still together at the end and in a romantically way. And hints are given for this clearly. I read the interview of the author a couple of pages back on this thread. he said 'this is the best possible ending that Kirino could get'. i Agree: If he went full on incest issue. It would get much more complicated and it will destroy the value of the story. Besides this is not some adult novel, but a pure love story. So this ending fits it the best. Kyosuke shutting down all possible paths. A kirino who only loves her brother very much and wants to be together with him forever. She cleary also doesn't want to date sombody else. This shuts down practically all other possible pairings. This hints towards how in love they really are. Even if they are siblings. There is something special between them.

My conclusion: a good love story with an ending that hints that it still not over.
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Old 2013-06-15, 23:33   Link #3692
YuzurihaAsuna
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... Haa.. I'm satisfied! Loved the ending!
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Old 2013-06-15, 23:56   Link #3693
jandkas
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So how many actually think the Epilogue would actually appear in the last 3 episodes?

I was a bit confused thinking that the author did a cop out by suddenly pushing in a "wish" but recently watching the newest episode I understood where that wish came from.
Spoiler for Kyousuke's Request:

Last edited by relentlessflame; 2013-06-16 at 00:09. Reason: merge double-post
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Old 2013-06-16, 01:49   Link #3694
Anime299
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The reason they talk about going back to being normal siblings is pretty basic. They both like eroge, and brother-sister specific eroge at that. They have just worked their way through their own, real-life 3-D eroge, complete with alternate paths, choices to be made, and the final step in the 'game' is for the brother and sister to win through the choices and get married. And they did that. He had all type of girls he interacted with just like in a game, and she had choces to make as well. Once the wedding was over, so was the game, and they return to 'normal' life. Not so easy in 3-D though, they're finding out, but they finished the 'program', and now it's back to life.
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Old 2013-06-16, 02:08   Link #3695
Kakurin-san
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Originally Posted by Anime299 View Post
The reason they talk about going back to being normal siblings is pretty basic. They both like eroge, and brother-sister specific eroge at that. They have just worked their way through their own, real-life 3-D eroge, complete with alternate paths, choices to be made, and the final step in the 'game' is for the brother and sister to win through the choices and get married. And they did that. He had all type of girls he interacted with just like in a game, and she had choces to make as well. Once the wedding was over, so was the game, and they return to 'normal' life. Not so easy in 3-D though, they're finding out, but they finished the 'program', and now it's back to life.
I respectfully disagree, to compare that, look at my past on the previous page. Kirino's hope was to forever be together with the one she loves the most (Kyousuke). And Kyousuke said about the 'let's get married' that this is something only to be said once in a lifetime, furthermore he decides that he will not date anybody anymore. Their thoughts and ideas stand in direct contrast to what you allude to in your post. To them, this was never a 3D eroge. As for why they talk about going back? It's because they are internalising their feelings, they go back to being normal siblings in front of society (a point that Kirino seemingly stresses more than Kyousuke), but in their hearts, they very much consider themselves a couple. I am too lazy to write my entire post again, so here's the link
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...postcount=3675

EDIT: Furthermore your interpretation does not take into account why Kirino started to play imouto-type eroge in the first place: To look for ways of consultation to reach her dreams as laid out at the end of Chapter 5.
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Old 2013-06-16, 02:10   Link #3696
relentlessflame
 
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Not so easy in 3-D though, they're finding out, but they finished the 'program', and now it's back to life.
The difference is basically that, in a game, once it's finished the story is over. But once their "game scenario" ends, their story together goes on. So now they have to figure out for themselves what happens after that, hence the life consultations continue.
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Old 2013-06-16, 02:17   Link #3697
kazzuya13
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Because of the end. I don't think Kirino will have much of a social life. There will be awkwardness by Ruri and Ayase towards Kirino and Kyousuke's relationship.
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Old 2013-06-16, 02:24   Link #3698
Kakurin-san
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Originally Posted by kazzuya13 View Post
Because of the end. I don't think Kirino will have much of a social life. There will be awkwardness by Ruri and Ayase towards Kirino and Kyousuke's relationship.
Hmm, at least in regards to Kuroneko I doubt it. Because Kuroneko always knew about their mutual tendencies and this end was not very unexpected to her. In Vol.10 (or episode 11) she says she doesn't mind if Kyousuke was an incest loving bastard and that she is Kirino's true friend. Now, of course you can say that she only said this because of the confrontation with Ayase, but on the other hand, her initial drawing in the Destiny Record was of Kirino and Kyousuke living a happy life. Furthermore she helped them one last time (though it on the surface didn't look like that) when she cut off the bridge behind Kyousuke.

As for her social life, I mean Kirino is a hugely popular girl, and as long as her friends who know, don't blurt out their relationship (which they in all likelihood won't), then she continues to be popular (which may be one reason, why she is more keen on internalising the relationship with Kyousuke, than Kyousuke).
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Old 2013-06-16, 02:40   Link #3699
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Because of the end. I don't think Kirino will have much of a social life. There will be awkwardness by Ruri and Ayase towards Kirino and Kyousuke's relationship.
I disagree because in the end the went to an offline meeting, both kirino and kyousuke were invited and since kuroneko is part of there group it shouldn't be awkward also even Kuroneko said she doesn't mind even if kirino had sex with Kyousuke albeit a bit rashly but still. However for Ayase there might be a degree of getting used to the fact that kirino dated her brother also her reaction was never shown but still she got used to the fact kirino was a otaku with the hobby of collecting eroge.
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Old 2013-06-16, 02:46   Link #3700
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However for Ayase there might be a degree of getting used to the fact that kirino dated her brother also her reaction was never shown but still she got used to the fact kirino was a otaku with the hobby of collecting eroge.
Well, with Ayase, I assume the main thing is that she's going to want some time to get over the loss of her first crush. After some time has passed, maybe she'll be able look back on the whole thing and smile, but I assume that she's going to want some space from Kyousuke for the time being, no matter who he decided to start going out with. The fact that he's chose her best friend and his sister makes it extra painful.

As you said, Kuroneko at least had a clearer picture of Kirino's feelings, and had somewhat prepared herself even if that didn't take the pain away. So she's had a lot more time to process it than Ayase did, even if it still hurt like hell when it actually happened.
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