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Old 2013-06-18, 11:59   Link #3841
kentasaiba
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Last episode-title:
Ore no Imouto to kanojo to yome to waifu to seishun-love ga Konna ni kawaii wake ga nai
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Old 2013-06-18, 12:03   Link #3842
Wilshere
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Originally Posted by kentasaiba View Post
Last episode-title:
Ore no Imouto to kanojo to yome to waifu to seishun-love ga Konna ni kawaii wake ga nai
Or simply ''Ore no Imouto ga konna ni kawaii wake ga nai'' for short.
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Old 2013-06-18, 12:27   Link #3843
jandkas
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I don't feel I like I could survive if 14-16 comes in an intervals of a month. I don't want 13 to be a cliff hanger but how likely is that possibility.
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Old 2013-06-18, 12:28   Link #3844
protheus
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Saw a few mentions of the Meruru ring at the ending, so I'm gonna stick my head in those conversations with my POV: this request from her was a reconfirmation of the marriage they have, one that she can finally show in public, since it's related to her hobby and noone can suspect it is something more than that.
Imagine this, a otaku style ring on someones finger, or a ring that shines bright, with real stones? Which one would you link to a marriage and which one would you leave it aside as a friendly gift?
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Old 2013-06-18, 12:34   Link #3845
Ricadan
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Soooooo, anyone who thinks their sister is cute has romantic feelings for her? Seriously, that's a terrible rationale. Logical fallacy. You're on better footing with the actual clues in the story. The title could just as easily, even more easily have non-romantic interpretations.

some cats are black things, some black things are televisions, some cats are televisions ... nope.

The author tried to "keep it a race" for as long as he could ... in doing so, he had to provide enough hints that any solution was possible for a large part of the tale.

Try this exercise - pretend Kuroneko (or Ayase) was the choice at the end and go through the series up to the point where Kyou suddenly makes his views clear and look for validation of why she was the obvious choice.
Sure, going solely off the title the logic is terrible, but the fact that in a romance novel the plot centers around the little sister, it's pretty obvious that she would have won (albeit the question of whether the author would follow through and what the publisher would allow)

And yeah, the main girl winning might be a cliche and generally those are frowned upon, but cliches exist for a reason.

Last edited by Ricadan; 2013-06-18 at 12:52. Reason: spelling... goddamn i'm tired today
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Old 2013-06-18, 13:00   Link #3846
Vexx
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Actually, you seem to be having a fit at anyone who isn't in lockstep with you - which is a large reason I was hesitant to even bother to post. I'm asking you to analyze the story framework and trying to show you why it might not have been adequately constructed to avoid the appearance of being jerked to a solution.

If you don't know how to do that, then we're done. Especially because even the simplest piece, like a book title, you're using as leading evidence that we should have expected the ending when it in no way does that.

Am I going to have to write a short story that shows a protagonist that is trying to repair his relationship with his sister while romancing her friends using the same title and the same characters to demonstrate?
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Old 2013-06-18, 13:03   Link #3847
Sakura_Tsuki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Actually, you seem to be having a fit at anyone who isn't in lockstep with you - which is a large reason I was hesitant to even bother to post. I'm asking you to analyze the story framework and trying to show you why it might not have been adequately constructed to avoid the appearance of being jerked to a solution.

If you don't know how to do that, then we're done. Especially because even the simplest piece, like a book title, you're using as leading evidence that we should have expected the ending when it in no way does that.
Oke sorry, that was a bit rude there of me. I apologize for that behavior. Let me explain it to you why i think it has a connection with the title.

EDIT:

This is the first time I mentioned the title of the book in connection with the story. Look at my posts so far. There is only one post that is talking about the title in connection with the story. My other post don't mention nothing about the title. So this is the first time I said this. My other opinions were based on other things. That came straight from the story.

The only connection I made with the story and title is: how the feelings of kyousuke changed through the whole story towards kirino (life counseling). Why did I think this:

Starting from the first novel (anime):

How was the situation at the beginning between the siblings:

He thought she hated him because of how she treated him.

Spoiler for Thoughts of kyousuke volume 1:


Later in the story his feelings towards kirino changed. Do you recall the episode in the first season. When the father found out about that DVD. And when kirino thanked kyousuke for solving that. 'my sister can't be this cute' was his reaction. I think this is a reaction of ' huh, didn't know she was like this at all'.

This lead me to think about that the title has a connection (but i would have never said it if we were still at volume 6 or 7. I am saying it only now after reading the end). With how Kyouske felt about his sister at first and how this changed later on. But if we have to think if this also explains the romantic part? No it doesn't. But for this we have to dig the hints that are given in the story like: life counseling etc.

I am not trying to convince anyone with my post. My apologies if you took it that why. But that was not my intention.

Last edited by Sakura_Tsuki; 2013-06-18 at 15:18.
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Old 2013-06-18, 13:08   Link #3848
Vexx
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It has a connection with the title ... but so do other possibilities, like the non-romantic one I just described. Someone picking up the book would not automatically assume it's about a romance with the protagonist's sister - only that he thinks she's cute. My cat is cute but it doesn't mean I want to marry him.
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Old 2013-06-18, 13:14   Link #3849
Wilshere
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
It has a connection with the title ... but so do other possibilities, like the non-romantic one I just described. Someone picking up the book would not automatically assume it's about a romance with the protagonist's sister - only that he thinks she's cute. My cat is cute but it doesn't mean I want to marry him.
Well, don't judge a book by its cover.
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Old 2013-06-18, 13:22   Link #3850
Rampant
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
My cat is cute but it doesn't mean I want to marry him.
You probably haven't spent any time thinking about how great your cat's ass is, either.

As others have said, I don't think the ending would ever have been in doubt if they hadn't been siblings. I know I was convinced that Fushimi would back down and try to play it off in the end. That sure didn't happen.
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Old 2013-06-18, 13:31   Link #3851
Ricadan
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Am I going to have to write a short story that shows a protagonist that is trying to repair his relationship with his sister while romancing her friends using the same title and the same characters to demonstrate?
But see, why have all that extra romance stuff in the first place?
If the plot focuses on repairing and developing the relationship with the sister, then switching/adding focus to the romance aspects would be unnecessary unless it was actually headed in the direction of the sister.
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Old 2013-06-18, 13:43   Link #3852
Solafighter
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Not completly sure, what you are discussing, whether there was romance involved, or not(Sry!).

Kirino loves Kyousuke as a men.
Kyousuke loves Kirino as a women.
They both love eachother in a special way, that can't be taken to lightly. It isn't just love between men and women, nor brother and sister. It is more than that. I have to recall again and again the last few rows of the final volume. In order to stay together, to see eachother, talk to eachother, they have to make a compromise. One day maybe, they will go further... One day, maybe.


To put the whole 12 volumes short: It is a story, that starts like any other. In the end, it will blow your mind.
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Old 2013-06-18, 14:34   Link #3853
seangel92
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Tomorrow is the released of BD S2 with the "Time Skip".
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Old 2013-06-18, 14:48   Link #3854
relentlessflame
 
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Try this exercise - pretend Kuroneko (or Ayase) was the choice at the end and go through the series up to the point where Kyou suddenly makes his views clear and look for validation of why she was the obvious choice.
I said this before the last volume was released, but I do still think the only way to do this after the way volumes 8-11 were written was still to acknowledge his more-than-normal-sibling feelings for Kirino. The evidence from that point on in particular was too overwhelming to handwave, in my view. The difference is only this: he would also have to decide that his feelings for another girl couldn't be forgotten, and so he'd have to kinda/sorta reject Kirino (in a sense) because he loves someone else too. I still say that Ayase is darn near impossible given the timing of her confession over the course of the story (because his feelings were already on a track; her confession was too little too late). Kuroneko is the only other path that I see as a realistic second option, and this was actually put forward in the narrative as a possibility (with her explicitly acknowledging Kirino's true feelings from the very start, well before it had been otherwise proven). (And indeed, even in Kuroneko's scene in Volume 12, Kyousuke acknowledged that he did still have feelings for her, so it wasn't very far off in this regard.)

I do understand your frustration with feeling like you were jerked around, due to the author's desire to keep the ending as secretive as possible, and your frustration with the insistence of certain people that there is no other possible direction for the story (or that it was completely obvious from the start) -- if that were the case, then there would not have been nearly as much suspense about how the story would end. But... at the same time, recognizing the reasons for what the author did (indeed, to build that suspense), I don't consider it as much of a "fault" but more of a "consequence". And given the "constraint" (even if we consider it self-imposed), I honestly do think that the dots are connected about as well as they can be.

I think the author was basically playing the audiences biases against them, since no matter how much he built up Kirino and Kyousuke's feelings for each other, there was always a "way out". And the natural inclination was to assume that they would take a way out given that it was an option. Although Kyousuke was slowly changing over the course of the narrative, it wasn't until the end that we see the impact of that change in terms of what he was willing to do. The Kyousuke at the start of the narrative would never have done what the Kyousuke at the end of the narrative did, but that's because the Kyousuke at the start of the narrative wasn't actually his full, true self (though this too was subtly foreshadowed). It's certainly a tricky way of writing things.
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Last edited by relentlessflame; 2013-06-18 at 15:06.
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Old 2013-06-18, 16:07   Link #3855
Vexx
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Originally Posted by Ricadan View Post
But see, why have all that extra romance stuff in the first place?
If the plot focuses on repairing and developing the relationship with the sister, then switching/adding focus to the romance aspects would be unnecessary unless it was actually headed in the direction of the sister.
Ah heh. I guess I'm just okay with more complicated plot lines. If part of the repair involves the resurrection of Kyou's social life that would fit right in.

Mayid and I talked and made up offline - we're not so far apart as it might appear, at least in recognizing some of the fragmentary elements of the story development.

Ah well. I don't *hate* the story. I like the character designs (personalities, etc), I wasn't hating the barrel of red herring elements. It's rare I don't have critical thoughts about stories - even ones I love dearly (listen to me rant about Tolkien or Arthur C. Clarke sometime).

Quote:
(And indeed, even in Kuroneko's scene in Volume 12, Kyousuke acknowledged that he did still have feelings for her, so it wasn't very far off in this regard.)
That actually repaired the situation a little for me, at least in the matter of Kuroneko, because I wasn't really finding a Kyou that brutally dumped all his friends and said out loud he was going to commit a "crime" to them very believable. The case for such a radical turn in him hadn't really been well made.

It also may be that I'm fundamentally getting tired of 'horserace' young shounen stories and find more satisfaction in seinen/shoujo stories (even triangle+plus ones). That's a very drippy brush to use though since some of my favorites have been shounen published.
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Old 2013-06-18, 16:31   Link #3856
Kakurin-san
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Vexx, your ideas and opinions are very interesting to read. I guess the reason some people may view your criticism in a negative light could be because it sounds partly too negative. Most people here are not authors like you and confronted with your points, they may find it too complicating, or as nitpicking on a high level. As for your thoughts on this 'horserace' stuff, I can understand that sentiment, especially if one has seen a lot of them (as you seem to have). I personally think it can be funny if done correctly. What annoys me would be the series which run too long and drag this 'horserace' into a marathon. In my opinion this 'horserace' stuff in Oreimo was in a acceptable range, as in my view it always came down to the question of Kuroneko or Kirino as love interests. I never gave Ayase or Manami (and Kanako doesn't even need to get mentioned) a real shot, as I thought their actual interaction with Kyousuke was not enough and the clues not strong enough.
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Old 2013-06-18, 17:09   Link #3857
levelminded
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everyone is trying to interpret the meaning of the series while i'm just here imagining the new members of the otaka club. i would imagine two members that are twins. one of them is a girl who's into a lot of shounem and enjoys mecha anime to the point she has a fetish for robot sex. the other twin is actually a guy who heard about this club from his sister and wanted to join. but due to him being a guy he ends up cross dressing and tries convince himself that this would increase his espers powers due to the cosmic world teling him it would allow him to predict peoples mind. he takes this so seriously that he says outrages claims about people that are not true through his observation. one observation he makes is that kirino and kyosuke are dating.
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Old 2013-06-18, 17:14   Link #3858
Wilshere
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everyone is trying to interpret the meaning of the series while i'm just here imagining the new members of the otaka club. i would imagine two members that are twins. one of them is a girl who's into a lot of shounem and enjoys mecha anime to the point she has a fetish for robot sex. the other twin is actually a guy who heard about this club from his sister and wanted to join. but due to him being a guy he ends up cross dressing and tries convince himself that this would increase his espers powers due to the cosmic world teling him it would allow him to predict peoples mind. he takes this so seriously that he says outrages claims about people that are not true through his observation. one observation he makes is that kirino and kyosuke are dating.
Thats one hell of an imagination tho. Twins,robot sex fetish,cross dresser,LOL mate you made my night.
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Old 2013-06-18, 17:58   Link #3859
KronosPlasma
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I'd like to know what was Kyousuke planes for his future?
We get a lot of info on the other characters. From them saying what they would like
or Kyousuke saying how skilled they are like Manami is with cooking.
With Kyousuke nothing was it in the being and I missed it or is it never brought up.
Other then going to school did he have a dream other then hooking up with a underclassman and his sister
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Old 2013-06-18, 18:39   Link #3860
levelminded
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Thats one hell of an imagination tho. Twins,robot sex fetish,cross dresser,LOL mate you made my night.
lol yea. i just did not want it to end without going into details what their new life will lead to. also the fact that the bonus novel is 10 years later and would most likely be short.
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