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Old 2013-07-01, 23:12   Link #4061
KronosPlasma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilshere View Post
Kirino being Manami's friend? She is her eternal enemy. Looking back at the novels and really reading through the lines and understanding every single word is important to get to this conclusion. If you look back at it, Kirino had the hardest way, she is his sister, she cant speak and convey her feelings freely. If anything, Manami is to blame for the current situation.
Well she starts off as a friend the show even points it out as well. An that's before everything falls apart between the three.
I never said shes not to blame just just the way thing have been reviled at the end seems nu-needed. Like I said the author was going for a happy ending for Kirino.
To me it's like his trying to push more hate on Manami. For nothing to come of the confrontation no social backlash or parents spiting them up or telling them no.
Well I guess it's a common ending in Japaneses incest stories. It's always just one person saying it's wrong and then happy ever after ending. Yosuga No Sora and Koi Kaze come to mine.

Spoiler for Comparison to Koi Kaze:

Last edited by relentlessflame; 2013-07-01 at 23:16. Reason: Using spoiler tag for comparison to to other work
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Old 2013-07-02, 08:51   Link #4062
Drakkar77
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Originally Posted by protheus View Post
Manami was the cause for everything that happened in the novels...how could she not be included in the end?
This...

I wish we could have seen a little be more of Ayase at the end too...I really like her character.

Mayid,

I really not trying to be an ass but I have to point out the misuse of their, there, and/or they're because it's a huge pet peeve of mine. ^^ ...even though there are different homonyms that nearly everyone gets wrong.

KronosPlasma,

I like your posts but some of the sentences hard to understand.

Last edited by Drakkar77; 2013-07-02 at 09:03.
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Old 2013-07-02, 09:20   Link #4063
Sakura_Tsuki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakkar77 View Post
This...

I wish we could have seen a little be more of Ayase at the end too...I really like her character.

Mayid,

I really not trying to be an ass but I have to point out the misuse of their, there, and/or they're because it's a huge pet peeve of mine. ^^ ...even though there are different homonyms that nearly everyone gets wrong.

KronosPlasma,

I like your posts but some of the sentences hard to understand.
Edit: I have edited my post. I understand what you mean. Thank you for pointing out my mistakes.

Last edited by Sakura_Tsuki; 2013-07-02 at 10:54.
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Old 2013-07-02, 09:54   Link #4064
Marcus H.
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All this to say, there is a lot of stuff going on just under the surface in that scene that provide important closure to all the characters and cap off some major character development for Kyousuke. And in the end, I honestly don't think people should look down on Manami as much as they do. As I said before, I don't necessarily agree with everything she did, but I don't think the books were truly making her into the enemy that people want to see her as. That's only how things look on the surface from one point of view.
I may not be that knowledgeable in the LN's, but I really don't like how Manami handles Kyousuke's problems or her concerns about him. She's not really a hands-on person when it comes to handling things, so she will come up as manipulative. There's also her "DAAAAAAME" said with a smiling face. That's not really something a normal girl would do; she should have gone for a more straight confrontation with a serious look. What she just did was pouring alcohol on Kirino's betrayed heart.
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Old 2013-07-02, 10:10   Link #4065
Wilshere
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The only thing that Kirino said back there is '' Give me back my brother''. How did it turn into an ''incest is wrong'' lecture? I mean, we don't know what did Kirino exactly say before. If someone can enlighten me please do.
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Old 2013-07-02, 10:34   Link #4066
Kakurin-san
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Originally Posted by Wilshere View Post
The only thing that Kirino said back there is '' Give me back my brother''. How did it turn into an ''incest is wrong'' lecture? I mean, we don't know what did Kirino exactly say before. If someone can enlighten me please do.
Kirino didn't engage Manami into such type of discussion. It was the other way round, Manami actively sought out that topic with Kirino.
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Old 2013-07-02, 10:46   Link #4067
kaigan
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i have the feeling that the anime showed us an abridged version of events. supposedly manami's brother's 'betrayal' made manami know about kiri's feelings towards kyou, right?
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Old 2013-07-02, 10:47   Link #4068
Wilshere
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Originally Posted by SigUp View Post
Kirino didn't engage Manami into such type of discussion. It was the other way round, Manami actively sought out that topic with Kirino.
Why did Manami open a sibling love affair discussion anyway?
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Old 2013-07-02, 11:05   Link #4069
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Anything new about this 10 year after? Job keeps me rollin' and can't find time on the ground to keep up in this thread.
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Old 2013-07-02, 11:13   Link #4070
Soverence
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Originally Posted by Solafighter View Post
Anything new about this 10 year after? Job keeps me rollin' and can't find time on the ground to keep up in this thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Apparently it's about chuunibyou Tamaki visits Kirino to watch a Meruru Remake 10 years after the end of the story (remember that Tamaki is a Meruru fan in present-day). Future Tamaki apparently looks just like Kuroneko does present-day. Kirino is apparently so beautiful for her age that chuuni-Tamaki considers her a modern-day witch. () Hinata also goes to see Kirino to ask for "life counselling" about her little sister. None of the other characters appear.

(But, if Kirino is hanging out with Ruri's sisters, then it certainly suggests that the two families are still friends.)
I think this is like the 5th time this has been posted so I am not sure if I should post it again, but here it is anyway .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilshere View Post
Why did Manami open a sibling love affair discussion anyway?
That kind of bugged me as well, it just seems to come out of no where. I mean as light novel readers we get where it is all coming from, but from the context of the anime the only previous hints at all (chronologically) for Manami are the one time they are hanging out at her house and Kirino gets annoyed and when Kirino screamed to give her back her brother. Both of those things don't really scream "incest".
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Old 2013-07-02, 11:23   Link #4071
Wilshere
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Originally Posted by kaigan View Post
i have the feeling that the anime showed us an abridged version of events. supposedly manami's brother's 'betrayal' made manami know about kiri's feelings towards kyou, right?
I don't think Manami knew about it. Ironically, Rock asked to fight Kyousuke(back then,when he was angry that he thought Manami is being taken away) and now it's Manami and Kirino's turn to do it.

Edit: Rock also says that ''I will take this secret to the grave''. He was a sis-con back then, and Kirino's definiton of traitor is that he ''betrayed'' Manami.
Its the same with Kirino,well he grew out from it, as for Kirino she was told to bottle-up her feelings resulting in this brother complex.
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Old 2013-07-02, 17:40   Link #4072
KronosPlasma
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post

In a way, it's not so dissimilar to how Kyousuke took responsibility for Kirino's eroge at the beginning of the story, and the Dad still had to punch him even though he knew full well that Kyousuke was just lying to protect Kirino -- and after that, the Dad could willingly turn a blind eye to it. What Manami does here is pretty similar -- since they haven't told their parents,
Well compering it to what the dad did helps makes things clearer for me.
It still feels odd the way things go down though.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilshere View Post
I don't think Manami knew about it. Ironically, Rock asked to fight Kyousuke(back then,when he was angry that he thought Manami is being taken away) and now it's Manami and Kirino's turn to do it.

Edit: Rock also says that ''I will take this secret to the grave''. He was a sis-con back then, and Kirino's definiton of traitor is that he ''betrayed'' Manami.
Its the same with Kirino,well he grew out from it, as for Kirino she was told to bottle-up her feelings resulting in this brother complex.
She wasn't told to bottle it up her feelings. Simply put from what Manami said get over it. She could have talked to Kyousuke at the time. Not counting how the anime showed it. Kirino is a lot more forceful in the novel at that point. So getting him to pay attention doesn't seem to be an issue she's not all tsundere yet.

That aside were the hell is Rock in the story. For being the brother of one of the main character he's almost never brought up.
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Old 2013-07-02, 18:22   Link #4073
relentlessflame
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KronosPlasma View Post
She wasn't told to bottle it up her feelings. Simply put from what Manami said get over it. She could have talked to Kyousuke at the time.
No, I think it's pretty clear that she could not have talked to Kyousuke about it at the time. She was told by Manami that her feelings were abnormal and something she should never tell to anyone because they'd think it strange. So, in her mind, telling Kyousuke about her feelings risked ruining whatever chance she had of making things work -- because, given that he was already sort of in "alignment" with Manami about his behaviour, he could just similarly dismiss her feelings as abnormal and that'd be a barrier she could never cross again. So, instead, she did a sort of strategic retreat.

You may wish to re-read the scenes with Kirino's audio recordings to better understand her thinking here.
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Old 2013-07-02, 23:43   Link #4074
Drakkar77
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Regarding the discussion on this page, the posts are too numerous for me to attempt any quotes, so I'll just summarize my thoughts.

I don't know that it was stated directly in the LN but if it's true that Rock was a siscon at the three years previous to the beginning of the story, then the reason for Kirino calling him a traitor and him telling her to 'grow up already' are probably one and the same.

It seems to me that Rock and Kirino must have some how got into a discussion about having feels for each of their own siblings, and agreed that they would not tell anyone about that discussion. Rock being the siscon that he was and Manami's ability to read people she's close to, he must have confessed the discussion to Manami.

After the eventual confrontation of Manami to Kirino about the latter's feelings for her older brother, Kirino would have known immediately that it was Rock that betrayed her. Thus the reason for what they said to each other when Rock and Kirino met before the meeting to help Manami and Kirino improve their relationaship in volume 11, chapter 1 at the Tamura home becomes clear.

Quote:
Rock was very surprised. Seeing Rock, Kirino said in a blank tone.

"Ah, traitor."

"——"

After he recovered (which took a while), Rock timidly asked:

"…Could it be… you still do it…?"
Rock's meaning, "you still pine for your brother?"

Quote:
"Hmm, it doesn't matter anyway."

Kirino… Did she just call Rock a 'traitor?'

I didn't understand the situation, but Rock muttered:

"…Isn't it better to say it out loud… Really...? Ah… really…"
Rock's meaning, "why don't you just tell him already?"

Quote:
Rock sighed… and then he spoke as if he was talking to a kid.

"That… It has been a long time already. We are both in middle school now, right?"

I couldn't believe my ears… Rock was treating Kirino like a kid.

Rock told Kirino to hurry and grow up…
The point about Rock taking some information to his grave must have been this very secret.

Quote:
"………"

Kirino didn't reply, her was expression blank. I sighed and asked Rock:

"What happened between you two?"

"Ah, that was! We —"

" — Try saying it."

Kirino interrupted.

"Ugh!"

Interrupted, Rock turned to Manami —

"A a a a a a a a! I can't!"

He screamed. I was even more puzzled than before.

"Hey, what is going on?"

"Sorry Kyou-chan! Please release me! I will take this secret with me to the grave!"
What could be so important that he'd take it to his grave? Until now I didn't know.

I didn't understand all this at the time but after reading this page's discussion it seems clear to me now that this must have been the reasoning behind those exchanges between Rock, Kirino, Manami and Kyousuke.

It's my firm belief now that this is how Manami knew about Kirino's true feelings for Kyousuke, and thus why Manami counseled Kyousuke to change his behavior after the whole Sakurai incident. Thus resulting in the cold war and the beginning of the story. Manami, albeit wrongly, thought that separating the siblings might be the best way to cool Kirino's feelings. I could be wrong, it's really hard to tell if Manami was planning that far ahead or was just trying to stop Kyousuke from being the reckless superhero he tended to play at the time. It could have also been for both reasons, this story is full of double reasons/meanings like that.

Edit: Maybe I'm just showing how dumb or how much or an inexperienced read I am but Hiro Kanzaki seems to have a lot of material that requires a thorough examination in order to truly understand/appreciate everything within the story. Honestly you don't see much writing like this anymore in novels. I know it's kinda cliche to say but a lot stuff nowadays is really to watered/dumbed down. It's very refreshing to see novels with this level of complexity still being created today!

Last edited by Drakkar77; 2013-07-03 at 05:53.
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Old 2013-07-03, 02:43   Link #4075
Wilshere
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^ I think I summarized it in 2 sentences but with these citations it makes them more clear.
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Old 2013-07-03, 04:24   Link #4076
Drakkar77
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Originally Posted by Wilshere View Post
^ I think I summarized it in 2 sentences but with these citations it makes them more clear.
Ah, I didn't realize sorry.^^ I guess I read through your post too quickly to understand what you meant...

Edit: After read it again, I can see what you meant. I guess I was just trying to clarify it for myself. Thanks
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Old 2013-07-03, 11:22   Link #4077
jasonhan416
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10 years after was disappointing...
Seriously disappointing.... Sigh
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Old 2013-07-03, 14:42   Link #4078
relentlessflame
 
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10 years after was disappointing...
Seriously disappointing.... Sigh
I think it's just that people over-hyped it. It's a short story that comes with the first volume of the anime, so it was not going to contain spoilers for things that anime-only viewers hadn't seen yet. But people got excited by the title and the fact that one of the early summaries implied that the short story would somehow continue the story, but that was just something the summary writer guessed/made-up (the novel never said implied anything about it).

For what it is, I'd say it seems pretty fun (though I won't receive my copy for a little bit yet).
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Old 2013-07-03, 14:46   Link #4079
Sakura_Tsuki
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10 years after was disappointing...
Seriously disappointing.... Sigh
Didn't expect anything from it anyway. This story can't be considered canon at all.
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Old 2013-07-03, 16:28   Link #4080
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Didn't expect anything from it anyway. This story can't be considered canon at all.
Why wouldn't it be considered canon, even if it's a side-story? It's written by the original author and published as part of official OreImo merchandise. There's nothing in it that contradicts anything canonical. Personally, I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be "canon", even though it doesn't directly relate to the rest of the plot points of Vol. 12.
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