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Old 2012-08-11, 09:52   Link #1141
bakAnki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VVolf View Post
And not me...? *sniff sniff*
Just kidding, I'll translate it now. You did a good job, btw. I can understand why you couldn't understand "お兄ちゃんっ子". It's a slang, and surprisingly, has nothing to do with "onii-chan" at all.
Sorry I forgot you XD And thanks so much for fixing my translation X3

It's not I'm doubting you and your teacher, but is it possibly that your teacher thought お兄ちゃんっ子 meant tomboy because she didn't know Kirino character? Up until now, from various media (LN, PSP game, anime commentary from DVD/Blu-Ray), Kirino character as well as the theme of this series, it's more likely that it means "girl who likes her big brother" than "tomboy."
And just like relentlessflame said, most (or maybe every) time I saw the slang, お兄ちゃんっ子 means the person is so/too attached/dependent to, or like/admire his/her big brother, just like "momma's boy" slang perhaps

But now you mention it, I can see it works too. Maybe Kirino back then was a tomboy and when Kyousuke spent more time with Manami, little Kirino thought because Manami is more girly than her thus she grew her hair and started to use make up and be more fashionable, even become a teen model ^^
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Old 2012-08-11, 10:20   Link #1142
karice67
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I'm inclined to agree with relentlessflame's interpretation too. Given that there is another term for tomboy (お転婆娘), the impression I get from the お兄ちゃんっ子 term as a way of saying "tomboy" contains the nuance of the girl in question acting as a 'big brother' to someone...which doesn't seem possible for Kirino at the time.
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Old 2012-08-11, 10:59   Link #1143
jandkas
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Just wondering, how are most people going to get their information of Volume 11 when it comes out?
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Old 2012-08-11, 21:09   Link #1144
VVolf
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Nah, it's alright if you guys don't agree. I was just giving my own interpretation, just like everyone else ^^

Quote:
And just like relentlessflame said, most (or maybe every) time I saw the slang, お兄ちゃんっ子 means the person is so/too attached/dependent to, or like/admire his/her big brother
I had the same thought at first too, and I do want to believe it is meant as so...heck, I still do! Now I wish I didn't know the darn language so well...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jandkas View Post
Just wondering, how are most people going to get their information of Volume 11 when it comes out?
For me, from the novel itself. I've already placed an order for it.
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Old 2012-08-11, 21:17   Link #1145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VVolf View Post
Nah, it's alright if you guys don't agree. I was just giving my own interpretation, just like everyone else ^^


I had the same thought at first too, and I do want to believe it is meant as so...heck, I still do! Now I wish I didn't know the darn language so well...
You know, it's one thing to say "I was just giving my own interpretation", but then to follow it up with (basically) "if only I weren't so damn smart", is a little bit defying the first point...

Since you do "know the darn language so well" (and I won't claim to), let's go with tomboy. But I think we are still to assume that the relationship between Kirino and Kyousuke was better in the past, and something happened to change that relationship, which seems to be the topic of the story. So even if she didn't "love" her brother in the past and all she's saying is that she used to be a tomboy, the overall meaning of the story doesn't really change either way, it just means they were using the line as a tease, and it's a throwaway.
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Old 2012-08-11, 23:35   Link #1146
VVolf
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Oh no no no. I didn't mean it like that. What I meant by "Now I wish I didn't know the darn language so well..." was then I would see "お兄ちゃんっ子" the same way as you guys do, that it does indeed mean she was attached to Kyousuke back then - something I would really want Kirino to say.

I apologize if that part sounded rude...><
I meant no offense.

The only reason why I'm sticking to the tomboy explanation is because that's how I interpret it, from the years I've learned the language. I'm not challenging anyone's view or anything, nor do I consider my own to be 100% correct, much less "superior" than everyone else's.
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Last edited by VVolf; 2012-08-11 at 23:51.
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Old 2012-08-12, 00:46   Link #1147
larethian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VVolf View Post
Although I can definitely see where you're coming from, I am sticking to my explanation.

First of all, I have just confirmed this with my Japanese teacher (Japanese native), and she agrees with my interpretation. And secondly, I'm having a hard time picturing Kirino saying something like that outright...

Again, I blame it on the author. Slangs are evil.

My guess is that he used "お兄ちゃんっ子" intentionally. You know, how a certain slang can be interpreted in various ways?
...Yeah, that sounds like Fushimi to me.
No offense to your sensei, but I think that's the wrong person to check with. Academic teachers are hardly acquainted with Gen Y and Net slangs. In fact, they, as well as other older people, don't get what the young people are talking about most of the time these days . It's better to check with someone who's a native Gen Y, or an Otaku. When it comes to such LNs, like Oreimo, Haganai, OreShura, Otaria, academic Japanese ability is really secondary to net exposure, imo.

That being said, I'm inclined to agree with relentlessflame's interpretation. What I've seen around the net pretty much uses お兄ちゃん子 (a short for お兄ちゃん大好きっ子) to describe little sisters who are brocon or tending towards that.

It's not that it's evil to use slangs (perhaps, it is evil in mainstream literature though). It's Fushimi trying to portray the characters, especially Kirino, as belonging to the group of Gen Y people who uses such slangs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jandkas View Post
Just wondering, how are most people going to get their information of Volume 11 when it comes out?
You just need to look up 2ch summary sites regularly. Or visit 2ch itself. Or English Otaku news sites that get the info from them. Or buy the book itself and read it.


From the summary, I'm guessing that this is going to end at volume 12 or 13.
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Old 2012-08-12, 00:57   Link #1148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VVolf View Post
The only reason why I'm sticking to the tomboy explanation is because that's how I interpret it, from the years I've learned the language.
If it's indeed a double-entendre, it wasn't written that way so that foreigners would get tripped up by it. It has to be a line that even native speakers would see can be interpreted both ways. So, in that sense, I'm not sure if your years of experience are all that helpful; they could, in fact, be misleading.

Incidentally, a Google search for the term also seems to support that the other use is more common vernacular on the Net. Again, not that it matter if he's being tricky and just using slang to mislead (which I totally think is possible; I just think it's also possible that he isn't).

Well, the teaser did what it was supposed to do and get us talking about the volume, so mission accomplished on that front.
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Old 2012-08-12, 01:27   Link #1149
VVolf
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Haha, I gotta admit you guys do make a good point about it being a net slang. I'll admit I didn't learn my Japanese (my fourth language in fact) through the net or anything anime-related. I gotta say the more I see it, the more I think your translation is more likely now. I got stubborn when I saw it only as a single word, not as a short form for something else.

So, I believe a formal apology is in order. Sorry if I sounded cocky or misled anyone.
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Old 2012-08-18, 21:48   Link #1150
Syokool
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That is a pretty tricky slang told be true. In Internet has a meaning, and in RL has another.

I think here it means both, "tomboy-ish" and "being too attached to the elder brother".

Reasons:
1) We know Kousaka sibiling got along in the past.
2) Kirino was practicing sports since grade school IIRC
3) She changed her looks and became a model.
4) The way she speaks to Kyousuke...

Then, Fusimi sensei is just using a "word" that makes us wonder what's the real thing, and discuss like the earlier posts
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Old 2012-08-18, 22:58   Link #1151
relentlessflame
 
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Actually, now that I rethink this whole thing again, there is another angle to all this.

If you take "Onii-chan-kko" literally, you might read that it's "an older-brother-like girl". In all of the eroge she plays, she does play the older brother character. In an odd sort of way, it's the very definition of being an "onii-chan-kko" (in the other meaning). Even though on the outside she's become fashionable and "girl-like" (in the stereotypical sense), her inner self is still an "onii-chan-kko" in that meaning. Her specific tastes with her hobby are more traditionally male. So perhaps even "tomboy" isn't a very good translation of the term, but a more literal meaning is more to the point -- her "inner self" is a siscon Onii-chan.

But, I still don't think that explanation alone is sufficient to explain whatever went on in the past, so there's surely more to the story.
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Old 2012-08-18, 23:08   Link #1152
Sumeragi
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My view: お兄ちゃんっ子 means "Onii-chan-con".
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Old 2012-08-19, 08:52   Link #1153
Syokool
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
My view: お兄ちゃんっ子 means "Onii-chan-con".
That's what came to my mind first, but the other meaning is valid to me also.

Now I see, your comment is funny with that otouto harem signature of yours
Maybe, u have the last word here.
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Old 2012-08-19, 12:33   Link #1154
kirino@love
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I can not wait to see the new hairstyle Kirino not you?
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Old 2012-08-20, 12:44   Link #1155
Rainb1
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Is it me or kyousuke is slowly building up a harem... xD
As for LN chapter 11 is the release date announced?
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Old 2012-08-20, 13:03   Link #1156
kirino@love
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some say they will release September 10
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Old 2012-08-23, 09:22   Link #1157
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainb1 View Post
Is it me or kyousuke is slowly building up a harem... xD
As for LN chapter 11 is the release date announced?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirino@love View Post
some say they will release September 10
Confirmed for September 10th, in other words 3 more weeks.
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Old 2012-08-27, 21:42   Link #1158
Aogami
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Regarding the previous issue: first forget about it meaning "tomboy" because that isn't even remotely close.

The use of っ子 is when something has characteristics of or actually is that, in other words in this case お兄ちゃん and お兄ちゃんっ子 is the same thing it's just that the っ子 is used more when refering to a child.
And no this is not slang
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Old 2012-08-27, 22:57   Link #1159
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aogami View Post
Regarding the previous issue: first forget about it meaning "tomboy" because that isn't even remotely close.

The use of っ子 is when something has characteristics of or actually is that, in other words in this case お兄ちゃん and お兄ちゃんっ子 is the same thing it's just that the っ子 is used more when refering to a child.
And no this is not slang
Um, great, welcome to the forums, etc, but some of the folks here have a fair grasp of the language, too (some native speakers, translators, etc). Sometimes there's more than one or two usages so got any examples, cites, etc for that?
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Old 2012-09-07, 06:07   Link #1160
mastakilla88
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What is happening there?

http://yaraon.blog109.fc2.com/blog-entry-11699.html
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