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Old 2013-04-08, 17:07   Link #1601
finalfury
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Old 2013-04-10, 12:25   Link #1602
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Originally Posted by Mystic_Vegetto View Post
icebreaker, your Analysis is incomplete...because there's no Analysis of a Harem End!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but has anyone seen a work with harem ending from Dengeki Bunko?
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Old 2013-04-10, 12:35   Link #1603
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but has anyone seen a work with harem ending from Dengeki Bunko?
Depends on what you define as "harem end". Is an ending where multiple girls still actively vying for his affection a "harem end"? Or, is it only a harem end if he's in an actual "romantic relationship" with multiple girls at once? For the former, that's sort of not so unlike an "open ending" or "no ending", and I'm sure many have ended that way or similar. The latter, though, is probably more rare.
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Old 2013-04-10, 12:58   Link #1604
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I will be outraged if the publisher has any sort of influence over the ending of a LN (other than axing it).
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Old 2013-04-10, 13:10   Link #1605
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Originally Posted by Flying Dagger View Post
I will be outraged if the publisher has any sort of influence over the ending of a LN (other than axing it).
Eh, well of course they do have some influence in the form of the assigned editor. Anything that gets published at a company has to go through an editor. That doesn't mean that the editor is going to tell the author what to write or force him to change it, but they may still have conversations about the content with the author and the author may decide to tweak/change things based on that feedback. But this sort of collaboration happens all the time on pretty much every published work. And, to be honest, a lot of authors probably benefit from the help/advice, because they have a shared interest in the work's success.

But I don't think it's like, for example, the author decides the story should end with Kyousuke declaring his love to one girl, and "the publisher" comes in and is like (mob voice) "we really think you may want to, uh, re-consider this choice of ending, if you know what's best for you and your family"... and then suddenly Kyousuke falls in love with someone else in the final work. It's still the author's work at the end of the day. If he doesn't end it well, it's his own name on the cover of the book.
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Old 2013-04-10, 13:13   Link #1606
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Depends on what you define as "harem end". Is an ending where multiple girls still actively vying for his affection a "harem end"? Or, is it only a harem end if he's in an actual "romantic relationship" with multiple girls at once? For the former, that's sort of not so unlike an "open ending" or "no ending", and I'm sure many have ended that way or similar. The latter, though, is probably more rare.
Either, which work specifically?

EDIT :
From all the possible links in this page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dengeki_Bunko), I found 3 light novels with harem tags.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bludgeo...el_Dokuro-Chan
^ I tried reading the last volume of this series, which (if I'm not mistaken), is a clear Dokuro ending.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_Royale
^ This one is apparently not really a novel series, but a collection of short series in collaboration with readers of their manga.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ladies_versus_Butlers!
^ Well, I can't find anything past volume 8 translated or summarized for this, sorry.

Theory/Possible conclusion : I think there is an unwritten rule among Dengeki Bunko editors to not allow harem endings. Furthermore, most questionable "incest" works (Kono Naka ni Hitori, Imōto ga Iru!, Oniichan dakedo Ai sae Areba Kankeinai yo ne!) would normally go to MF Bunko J instead. If Fushimi wanted to write an "incest" novel from the start, his editor would have referred him to MF Bunko J instead. That's an external reason for me to believe that Oreimo would have a clear, non-harem, non-Kirino ending.

Last edited by icebreaker; 2013-04-10 at 14:09.
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Old 2013-04-10, 19:21   Link #1607
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^ On the Ladies versus Butlers! ending, I will let you decided:

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Alright, I check the Chinese source for an ending.
Spoiler:
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Old 2013-04-10, 19:58   Link #1608
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Originally Posted by icebreaker View Post
Theory/Possible conclusion : I think there is an unwritten rule among Dengeki Bunko editors to not allow harem endings. Furthermore, most questionable "incest" works (Kono Naka ni Hitori, Imōto ga Iru!, Oniichan dakedo Ai sae Areba Kankeinai yo ne!) would normally go to MF Bunko J instead. If Fushimi wanted to write an "incest" novel from the start, his editor would have referred him to MF Bunko J instead. That's an external reason for me to believe that Oreimo would have a clear, non-harem, non-Kirino ending.
I think that's a pretty major anecdotal oversimplification leading to a questionable conclusion. Keep in mind that the vast majority of the novels on that list you referenced don't have Wiki pages so were excluded from your genre and conclusion analysis. (And the genre itself doesn't really tell you the ending anyway.)

I don't think there's any rule whatsoever that a novel imprint determines the sort of ending the author may write. And besides, claiming that this isn't a "questionable incest work" is a bit silly -- it's a story about an imouto who plays incest-themed eroge, and her tsundere relationship with her big brother (and whose feelings for him, and vice-versa, have been a major theme of the work). You can't handwave the whole thing now and be like "oh, this isn't an incest novel or else it would have gone to a different publisher". What have we been reading then...?

I'm not saying that there will or will not be a Kirino ending in the next novel (as we've already discussed in this thread), but the logic used doesn't really hold up to scrutiny. It's sort of like trying to find statistics that support the conclusion you want to believe.

(And besides, even if it were true that no novel ever published by that imprint had ever had a certain ending, there can always be a first...)
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Last edited by relentlessflame; 2013-04-10 at 20:19.
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Old 2013-04-10, 20:08   Link #1609
Flying Dagger
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...then in the epilogue, the author sends Kyousuke to a small village in Europe. We have Kyousuke sitting anxiously with Kuroneko the maid serving him some tea... then Ayase walks into the room with a new born baby and say "Congratulations, Kirino gave birth to a healthy sister to our child..."
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Old 2013-04-10, 20:36   Link #1610
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Originally Posted by Flying Dagger View Post
I will be outraged if the publisher has any sort of influence over the ending of a LN (other than axing it).
That's quite naive.
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Old 2013-04-10, 20:40   Link #1611
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Originally Posted by Flying Dagger View Post
I will be outraged if the publisher has 100% influence over the ending of a LN.
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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
That's quite correct.
Fixed for accuracy.
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Old 2013-04-10, 21:33   Link #1612
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And besides, claiming that this isn't a "questionable incest work" is a bit silly -- it's a story about an imouto who plays incest-themed eroge, and her tsundere relationship with her big brother (and whose feelings for him, and vice-versa, have been a major theme of the work). You can't handwave the whole thing now and be like "oh, this isn't an incest novel or else it would have gone to a different publisher". What have we been reading then...?
They would have panned out how does this series develop and lead to from the start whether they think it's acceptable or not. Well, for me, a novel about incest which didn't happen because it can't happen trying to teach people it's not allowed to happen is within the range of morally acceptable.

Well, that's that. Sorry if I went out of my way, that's just simply a theory I randomly came up with when I suddenly realized how few actual open endings I have seen in Dengeki Bunko.
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Old 2013-04-10, 21:39   Link #1613
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Fixed for accuracy.
Wrong. To be angry at such a thing shows just how naive that person is about the industry.
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Old 2013-04-10, 21:54   Link #1614
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Wrong. To be angry at such a thing shows just how naive that person is about the industry.
Fair enough. Does the publisher have full control over the control over the ending of a light novel, meaning that the author has no say in the matter, by any chance?
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Old 2013-04-10, 22:09   Link #1615
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Fair enough. Does the publisher have full control over the control over the ending of a light novel, meaning that the author has no say in the matter, by any chance?
Of course (usually) not. The point is that the publisher does have influence, which can change the direction of the story depending on the situation.
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Old 2013-04-10, 22:16   Link #1616
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Originally Posted by finalfury View Post
Fair enough. Does the publisher have full control over the control over the ending of a light novel, meaning that the author has no say in the matter, by any chance?
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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Of course (usually) not. The point is that the publisher does have influence, which can change the direction of the story depending on the situation.
Yes, and like I said before, the editor and the author are generally working together towards the same goal, so it's usually a collaborative process to perfect the work, not "publishers says no; change it". There are of course some cases where the author and editor/publisher are at odds over certain things (and those sometimes get publicity when they come into the public spotlight), but it's intended to be a partnership with the goal of making a better product. (A lot of authors will even admit that they shine thanks to their editors who help them out.)

But anyway, I don't really understand the concern. There's no reason to believe that the author is going to want to do some ending and the publisher would forbid him. If you get that sort of conspiracy theory in your head, then you'll second-guess whatever the author writes and think "is that really what he wanted to write?" and it's endless.
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Old 2013-04-10, 22:53   Link #1617
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Fair enough. Does the publisher have full control over the control over the ending of a light novel, meaning that the author has no say in the matter, by any chance?
It's very likely this was discussed before the first volume is even published - ie. the editor clearly stating which kind of development/ending is unacceptable. So if the author wanted it otherwise he would have looked for another publisher.

They won't let the author write halfway through and suddenly say "you aren't allowed to end it like this".
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Old 2013-04-10, 23:54   Link #1618
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Suggestions or 'pressure' is very different than 'demands' or 'orders'. Publishers use the former. The only risk is they may consider the author "difficult to work with" on future projects, I suppose.
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Old 2013-04-13, 22:50   Link #1619
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So after seeing episode 2 of the anime it look different than in the light novel. Do you think that the anime will have different ending than the light novel?
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Old 2013-04-13, 22:57   Link #1620
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So after seeing episode 2 of the anime it look different than in the light novel. Do you think that the anime will have different ending than the light novel?
Well, episode 2 was adapted from an audio drama, but I don't think it necessarily has any bearing on how they choose to adapt the rest of the novels. The only thing I can imagine them doing (maybe) is having an "alternate ending" as was proposed above, and then the "true ending" on the Blu-Ray again. But even then I think it's unlikely. I'd guess the endings will be essentially the same.
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