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Old 2010-02-27, 20:57   Link #1001
irvinethearcher
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [thousandmaster] View Post
Well, If Priscilla does get attacked by the hellcats, she wouldn't have any problems catching up to Claire. She can travel a long distance in seconds.
There are still those meds, i wonder if clare, yuma and cynthia have taken some from those three claymores in the village.

@Joe_FH
i really am surprised that yagi used jean instead of rafaella.
By the way, the problem with those long post wars is that you not only have to read sometimes the post and the reply but also the last post. It is really a pain to follow something like that. therefore i personally will never really engage into something like that. It is hard enough to read all that stuff without misquoting someone, as i did a few pages before against ryus. Those post wars somehow are looking like a volley from raciella

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_FH
In fact yes. Children are gullible that’s why there are so many laws to protect them. Children trust people more easily than adults do and that’s a fact. Also Clare didn’t see all those people dying.
I’m not going to go into details on this but there are a lot of freaks and sick murders who would make a little girl smile and tap her on the head….
That’s the cruel reality. If you don’t believe a murderer is capable of that you should read some articles about it but I don’t really recommend it because it’s sick.
Also there are conditions like the Stockholm syndrome^^
But this was obviously not the case here because Theresa behaved polite to the villagers, protected clare like a raw egg and clare showed real concern about her. Theresa also spared and warned priscilla several times, called her a young lady and that the real world...., which implied that theresa, the older one, had experienced things priscilla couldn't learn on org hq. with a little thinking priscilla could conclude that theresa must have had a good reason for killing some people, if she was smart enough she even could easily deduce that theresa's killing was connected to the girl she had with her. But priscilla's senses were clouded by blind fanaticism implanted by the org.
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Old 2010-02-27, 21:43   Link #1002
Negativedark
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If Dietrich is still loyal to the Organization Yuma and Cynthia will still be in a lot of trouble even if she saves them.
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YUMA PUNCH! YUMA BARRIER! YUMA HEALING MAGIC! Yuma has a very diverse moveset.
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Old 2010-02-27, 21:46   Link #1003
Shiek927
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Quote:
i really am surprised that yagi used jean instead of rafaella.
We don't know yet :P

It does seem a bit, I don't know...in order, I felt the odds of those most likely affecting Claire were: Rafaela, Teresa, Irene, Jean, Ophelia.....so yeah, Jean's pretty down there on the list. Not that I don't like her, but it's not like she has had as big of a effect on her like some others. We know they were friends, but this far?
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Old 2010-02-27, 23:19   Link #1004
gxy1069
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i nvr rly thought of cynthia's and yuma's predicament this way...i only focused on the" danger of healing" part. thx for reminding me they are in a far more dangerous situation right now...not that i want them to be killed

p.s who wrote it? i dun even know...
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Old 2010-02-28, 01:58   Link #1005
Solace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiek927 View Post
We don't know yet :P

It does seem a bit, I don't know...in order, I felt the odds of those most likely affecting Claire were: Rafaela, Teresa, Irene, Jean, Ophelia.....so yeah, Jean's pretty down there on the list. Not that I don't like her, but it's not like she has had as big of a effect on her like some others. We know they were friends, but this far?
Without a credible (read - something that doesn't read like the author pulled it out of his ass) reason for Jean somehow having the foresight to "block" future awakenings in Clare, the spoiler just seems really strange. Jean always felt like a plot device rather than a character, sort of like the guy in the red shirt who motivates Kirk to save the day...no real importance except to die and make the main character look even better.
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Old 2010-02-28, 02:41   Link #1006
Slick_rick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
Without a credible (read - something that doesn't read like the author pulled it out of his ass) reason for Jean somehow having the foresight to "block" future awakenings in Clare, the spoiler just seems really strange. Jean always felt like a plot device rather than a character, sort of like the guy in the red shirt who motivates Kirk to save the day...no real importance except to die and make the main character look even better.
Jean did have her Yoki synchronized to Clare's when she died so its possible that's how she's "lived on" inside Clare. The fact we see her walking beside Clare before she talked to Rafaela in her subconscious could easily being foreshadowing to that fact. Also I think off all the people Jean was the most honorable and would be the one most likely to want to make sure Clare stayed human.

Could we get a 101 chapter thread? This did come from a fairly reliable source. The usual D. gray-man spoiler giver who actually doesn't usually give for a Claymore spoiler.
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Old 2010-02-28, 05:16   Link #1007
gxy1069
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
Jean did have her Yoki synchronized to Clare's when she died so its possible that's how she's "lived on" inside Clare. The fact we see her walking beside Clare before she talked to Rafaela in her subconscious could easily being foreshadowing to that fact. Also I think off all the people Jean was the most honorable and would be the one most likely to want to make sure Clare stayed human.

Could we get a 101 chapter thread? This did come from a fairly reliable source. The usual D. gray-man spoiler giver who actually doesn't usually give for a Claymore spoiler.
instead of just one person influencing clare's ability to awaken(according to that theory), why not have everyone do so? if teresa, rafaela AND jean interfere, well, we can equally focus on those chracters, getting their closures done.
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Old 2010-02-28, 06:03   Link #1008
Gooral
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Spoiler for for a long response to Joe_fh:
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Old 2010-02-28, 06:07   Link #1009
haegar
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I'm not sure if I like this turn of events yet, but I would agree that it sounds possible that Jean and Clare did perform a soul-link and that that has consequences. In fact, might even be that they did so twice, once in Witches Maw when Clare saved Jean, and a second time in Pieta when Jean sacrificed herself, hence the connection could be pretty strong. So maybe the mistake Raph reffered to was Clare ignoring some remnant of Jean's prensence inside herself, and Raph was trying to point to that. It would be consistent with Jean's character that she tries to stop Clare from awakening for revenge.

However, despite the fact that Jean, Theresa and Raph might be messing with Clare from the inside, her inability to pull of a 4-limb awakening like in Pieta might have other reasons that are not connected to her mental passengers at all.

We learned from Prissy these last chapters that awakend beings CANNOT go without food - Prissy did so for seven years by sheer willpower, driven by an insatiable desire to reclaim her past, not because it was easily done.

We don't know exactly what half-awakening means for a Claymore's body yet. In the Slashers Arc when the fab four were discussing their half-awakend state something like "heightend hunger" was mentioned if memory serves right. Maybe a half-awakend Claymore cannot fight on half-awakend level indefinetly, maybe they are basically "burning down" their baseline yoki-reserves much quicker than normal Claymores.

If that were the case, surely Clare would be the first of the Fab Four to reach that point of depletion or entropy if you like, simply because she used her powers more fully and ruthlessly than the others. What if she reached that point just now and cannot pull of a 4-limb anymore unless she really, FULLY awakens so that she can feed and that way replenish her power?

Anyways...just some speculating...it's been some time since we got input on the state of half-awakening from Yagi... maybe he is preparing to build on this again...

As for the rest of the spoiler, agree on the opinions on Helen&Deneve, its hard to imagine them snatching Clare away from Prissy's grasp, it's also hard to imagine that Clare would let them do that. But since Clare seems somehow limited in her powers atm. they might be able to knock her out. And yes, the Hellcats or the Destroyer might run interference involuntatily and keep Prissy busy. While that's more or less logical I wouldn't like it since it sounds a bit too constructed... Just as Prissy has the three of them in the palm of her hand - enter the Hellcats, third volley. "rly. how convenient :/"

I'd like to see Dietrich again, but West and East seem somewhat upside down...

In any case, even if I might not like parts of it if it turns out to be solid... great spoiler... makes for nice speculating fodder
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Old 2010-02-28, 10:08   Link #1010
Ryus
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I need another spoiler asap... even if it's clearly fake. Since Joe and Gooral seem to have to much energy I'm nominating them to write it for the rest of us
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Old 2010-02-28, 10:28   Link #1011
gxy1069
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryus View Post
I need another spoiler asap... even if it's clearly fake. Since Joe and Gooral seem to have to much energy I'm nominating them to write it for the rest of us
haha...agreed. hang in there man, the next chapter is less than a wk away!!!
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Old 2010-02-28, 12:22   Link #1012
Joe_fh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irvinethearcher View Post
@Joe_FH
i really am surprised that yagi used jean instead of rafaella.
By the way, the problem with those long post wars is that you not only have to read sometimes the post and the reply but also the last post. It is really a pain to follow something like that. therefore i personally will never really engage into something like that. It is hard enough to read all that stuff without misquoting someone, as i did a few pages before against ryus. Those post wars somehow are looking like a volley from raciella
I wouldn’t classify it as “post wars” though. I know it’s a pain but you’ll be surprised what new things you might see by reading posts like that. I myself have read many interesting points and ideas about anime, manga and even books that I would probably never have figured out on my own.
So look forward to the Hellcats after the volley


Quote:
Originally Posted by irvinethearcher View Post
But this was obviously not the case here because Theresa behaved polite to the villagers, protected clare like a raw egg and clare showed real concern about her. Theresa also spared and warned priscilla several times, called her a young lady and that the real world...., which implied that theresa, the older one, had experienced things priscilla couldn't learn on org hq. with a little thinking priscilla could conclude that theresa must have had a good reason for killing some people, if she was smart enough she even could easily deduce that theresa's killing was connected to the girl she had with her. But priscilla's senses were clouded by blind fanaticism implanted by the org.
Well that’s the way you see things. To be honest Teresa didn’t really protect Clare. She told her to step back so she doesn’t get caught in the “crossfire” but no one was really after her. I can’t argue that Clare showed concern for Teresa but as I said children are easily deceived. What I mean to say is that a child couln be connected to Teresa in many ways none of which actually matters.

As I said in my reply to Gooral below Prissy had a good enough reason to kill Teresa just because she left the organization and was technically are deserter (or defector since it’s a synonym and I think it’s more common). Throughout our history there are numerous examples that soldiers who do that get killed (not now but in the past and the society in Claymore is somewhat similar to ours in the past).
Also the organization manipulates the information it gives to its Claymores thus ensuring the job would be done with efficiency and without asking questions. I wouldn’t call it blind fanaticism but more of a brainwashing plus manipulating information and thus manipulating the people. And after all if it wasn't Prissy it would be someone else. All this doesn't make Prissy "evil" imo.

Sorry that was a bit long^^ but wait till you open the spoiler tag

Spoiler for reply to Gooral:
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Old 2010-02-28, 12:45   Link #1013
Ryus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryus View Post
I wonder who this enemy who shows up near Yuma and Cynthia is... A hellcat, an AB, a wondering AF, or maybe even Priscilla. Since I'd find it odd if Dietrich can take on a Hellcat by herself.
I just had a crazy thought... (Dumb Helen looking smile)

EDIT: The web site the smiles are from went down... sorry. Hopefully they'll be backup soon.














What if... ...this enemy that showed up near Yuma and Cynthia is a new enemy and not a known enemy, but one that's already been hinted at... ROD INFECTED VILLAGERS




























Confused? Then just think about... We could have rod infected chickens, goats, ducks, pig, cows, deer, gorillas, monkeys, and horses too! (Clare said all the rods needed was a life form... right? Though I think ants are too small... ) Maybe even dogs and cats... Just as long as the ghosts never run into a vicious bunnies everything will be fine

































This could also give standard Yoma a much needed power up


























I NEED A NEW SPOILER OR SOMETHING ASAFP!

Last edited by Ryus; 2010-02-28 at 13:32. Reason: I got bored...
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Old 2010-02-28, 13:17   Link #1014
Gooral
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
(...) Jean always felt like a plot device rather than a character, sort of like the guy in the red shirt who motivates Kirk to save the day...no real importance except to die and make the main character look even better.
I strongly disagree. Actually Jean is one of my favourite characters. Why do I like her? She's beautiful (if you don't believe I can provide some fanarts or specific pages of the manga), has impregnable spirit, penetrating glance which even Chuck N. would not be able to stand (v8 ch41 p51) but at the same time she's very womanly (just look at her with only a cloak on). In addition she's intelligent, has her own opinion unlike Yuma/Helen/Deneve/Tabitha (v. 9 p. 180), has a way with words (even though she rarely speaks) and doesn't let anyone to manipulate her (v. 8 p.125). What's interesting she went against organization even though she knew that she would be blacklisted all because of her sense of justice, morality and honour. Even Galatea wasn't like that at first. I would even say that it was thanks to Jean's attitude that something triggered in Galatea and she didn't execute MiB's orders. So Jean was also charismatic and influenced people surrounding her. The first thing Jean did after seeing Louvre was asking about Galatea !!! Do I need to comment that? That is not all however, you could say that she's more intelligent than Miria or that at least that she could analyse situation much quicker than her. Guess who noticed first that Riguald attacks only team leaders and warned others? Because of that Riguald went after her and lethally wounded her. She didn't cry like Deneve however. Even though she was greatly injured she still thought about others and not about what will happen to her. In a sense everyone survived thanks to her. The way Yagi got rid of her was the best in the whole manga IMO. Fitting end for one of the best characters there are in Claymore.
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Old 2010-02-28, 13:27   Link #1015
Ryus
The One Eyed King
 
 
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Originally Posted by Gooral View Post
I strongly disagree. Actually Jean is one of my favourite characters. Why do I like her? She's beautiful (if you don't believe I can provide some fanarts or specific pages of the manga), has impregnable spirit, penetrating glance which even Chuck N. would not be able to stand (v8 ch41 p51) but at the same time she's very womanly (just look at her with only a cloak on). In addition she's intelligent, has her own opinion unlike Yuma/Helen/Deneve/Tabitha (v. 9 p. 180), has a way with words (even though she rarely speaks) and doesn't let anyone to manipulate her (v. 8 p.125). What's interesting she went against organization even though she knew that she would be blacklisted all because of her sense of justice, morality and honour. Even Galatea wasn't like that at first. I would even say that it was thanks to Jean's attitude that something triggered in Galatea and she didn't execute MiB's orders. So Jean was also charismatic and influenced people surrounding her. The first thing Jean did after seeing Louvre was asking about Galatea !!! Do I need to comment that? That is not all however, you could say that she's more intelligent than Miria or that at least that she could analyse situation much quicker than her. Guess who noticed first that Riguald attacks only team leaders and warned others? Because of that Riguald went after her and lethally wounded her. She didn't cry like Deneve however. Even though she was greatly injured she still thought about others and not about what will happen to her. In a sense everyone survived thanks to her. The way Yagi got rid of her was the best in the whole manga IMO. Fitting end for one of the best characters there are in Claymore.
While I agree with much of that... uh... I think you misrepresented Deneve. She cried over her failure to help Undine (her death), not her wounds. Would Jean have cried if Clare died and she couldn't avenge her? She did cry over Katea's (forgive my spelling) awakening and death after all.
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Old 2010-02-28, 13:48   Link #1016
Gooral
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@Ryus
I didn't write that she cried because of her wounds, only that she cried. She was weeping and resting instead of regenerating her wounds and helping her comrades. It's true I've embellished this situation a bit (since Jean didn't do a thing until Clare had to be unawakened) and I did that intentionally :]. Nonetheless when Jean cried she wanted to kill Riful, not go into her room, close the door and weep into her pillow.
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Old 2010-02-28, 14:09   Link #1017
Ryus
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Originally Posted by Gooral View Post
Nonetheless when Jean cried she wanted to kill Riful, not go into her room, close the door and weep into her pillow.
I agree and just like Deneve she knew she couldn't do a thing against the one who killed her friend... hence why they both cried. Knowing your powerless against a murder sucks.

I understand the desire to embellish things but in a debate embellishing can easily back fire. Which is why I got so confused... I couldn't figure out if you meant it as a sing of her being weak against pain or where stretching the truth to make Jean look better, both I found wrong at the time. So I just had to speak my mind about the situation. Sorry . However Jean did cry exactly like Deneve did... and for the same reason (and a good and touching one at that).

Now I agree that even though Jean had a purpose (like Solace said) she still was a pretty complete character, like you do. She had clear motives and it was clear why she was fighting. She hated Yoma and wanted to protect everyone. Though we don't know her exact back story we know the common past all Claymores share and it's easy to draw a few conclusions based on that info. So I understand Solaces argument and your but I think the truth is since Yagi had a plan with her he tried to fill her out as a character before spending her. Which is why we love her so much... she died at the peak of her writing.
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Old 2010-02-28, 14:43   Link #1018
irvinethearcher
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Jean was after elena the only true friend clare had and the only one who could somehow get through to her i think. When clare lost her she was so full sadness that deneve had to kick her out of it.

Quote:
As I said in my reply to Gooral below Prissy had a good enough reason to kill Teresa just because she left the organization and was technically are deserter (or defector since it’s a synonym and I think it’s more common). Throughout our history there are numerous examples that soldiers who do that get killed (not now but in the past and the society in Claymore is somewhat similar to ours in the past).
Also the organization manipulates the information it gives to its Claymores thus ensuring the job would be done with efficiency and without asking questions. I wouldn’t call it blind fanaticism but more of a brainwashing plus manipulating information and thus manipulating the people. And after all if it wasn't Prissy it would be someone else. All this doesn't make Prissy "evil" imo.
So i would say that the yoma who killed her folks and the org made priscilla evil.
In austria was a case where a man captured a little girl and tried to make her his wife:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natascha_Kampusch

But theresa was a claymore, she was number one, she was famous and the finest of them all, she was experienced at least she was confronted with many different situations on the battlefield. Priscilla must have known that she not simply screwed up and broke the iron clad rule without having a profound reason. I think priscilla wasn't really interested in her true reasons. I think for priscilla reasons were irrelevant and nothing was more important than protecting humans from yoma. Something i can understand when i think about her past. The reason i hate priscilla was that despite she was overwhelmed by theresa, despite theresa spared and warned her and despite theresa had clare with her she killed her and became the thing she hated the most only for her desire to life.
But i think something like clare's revenge and if priscilla is good or evil is nothing which can be decided by logic. Everyone has his own opinion here.
I think that clare instead of priscilla would have given up and died as a human because there was nothing to win by fighting anymore and clare did never clinge to her life as priscilla did. Priscilla knew she was wrong and made a mistake and wanted to die but her fear of death was hindering her. That is for me one of the most important differences between those two.
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Old 2010-02-28, 15:05   Link #1019
Armored Knight
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Jean's nobility was her motive to fight. She had a unique character and I love her because of her nobility. Whether her existence was a "plot device" or not, I don't care. Jean's nobility in just unmatchable and that's what made her a character more than a plot device in my opinion. She is not one of my top favourites, but her existence had enough significance. I just don't like the way some of you criticize the characters as plot devices. Remember, this Claymore we are talking about, the existence of any Claymore makes sense according to the main story. And actually, sending Jean to Riful's castle (as a single digit and powerful warrior) couldn't be more convenient than what it actually was in accordance with the story. It is just like what DragonZERO said.

BTW, Jean's death was the most tear-jerking moment in the manga IMO, I almost ran out of tissues. It is not the most shocking though.
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Old 2010-02-28, 15:09   Link #1020
Arkham
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooral View Post
I strongly disagree. Actually Jean is one of my favourite characters. Why do I like her? She's beautiful (if you don't believe I can provide some fanarts or specific pages of the manga), has impregnable spirit, penetrating glance which even Chuck N. would not be able to stand (v8 ch41 p51) but at the same time she's very womanly (just look at her with only a cloak on). In addition she's intelligent, has her own opinion unlike Yuma/Helen/Deneve/Tabitha (v. 9 p. 180), has a way with words (even though she rarely speaks) and doesn't let anyone to manipulate her (v. 8 p.125). What's interesting she went against organization even though she knew that she would be blacklisted all because of her sense of justice, morality and honour. Even Galatea wasn't like that at first. I would even say that it was thanks to Jean's attitude that something triggered in Galatea and she didn't execute MiB's orders. So Jean was also charismatic and influenced people surrounding her. The first thing Jean did after seeing Louvre was asking about Galatea !!! Do I need to comment that? That is not all however, you could say that she's more intelligent than Miria or that at least that she could analyse situation much quicker than her. Guess who noticed first that Riguald attacks only team leaders and warned others? Because of that Riguald went after her and lethally wounded her. She didn't cry like Deneve however. Even though she was greatly injured she still thought about others and not about what will happen to her. In a sense everyone survived thanks to her. The way Yagi got rid of her was the best in the whole manga IMO. Fitting end for one of the best characters there are in Claymore.
As a proud member of "Jean la pet" I must give you a rep and I suggest that anyone who loves Jean should too!
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