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Old 2010-07-07, 19:07   Link #861
DeadlySoldier37
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Finally had time to see the first episode, and I couldn't have asked for anything better I loved all of it from start to finish.

One of the selling points when I started reading the manga was when Takashi bitch-slapped Rei and I have to say I truly enjoyed it seeing it animated, that girl Rei could be a real bitch. Definitely looking forward to the next episode.
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Old 2010-07-07, 19:07   Link #862
gonzo562
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im only guessing and hypothesizing

maybe Hisashi the bitch here for seducing rei into dating him,
while he knew rei liked Takashi
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Old 2010-07-07, 19:09   Link #863
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo562 View Post
im only guessing and hypothesizing

maybe Hisashi the bitch here for seducing rei into dating him,
while he knew rei liked Takashi
lol... Divert the hatred toward the dead. They don't feel anything. Good call.
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Old 2010-07-07, 19:17   Link #864
Lumine
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Just picked up this anime.

-Archer in a Zombie Holocaust. WIN

-Rei is Annoying

-Fat guy looks like the fat guy in Green Green. Hope he's as awesome as people says

-lulz I will fight zombies with KARATE!

-them jiggling physics

-Did I say Rin is annoying?

-Ending is awesome

-Soundtrack from 28 days later. WIN
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Old 2010-07-07, 19:24   Link #865
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arturro View Post
With her problems she went to Hisashi, not to Takashi. Takashi is someone close and dear to her, but not on the lover of friend level.
There is nothing that support the fact she told Hisashi about her school issues whatsoever.

Furthermore, Takashi thought "-maybe- it is true". For all it is worth, Takashi smashed Hisashi's head (not killed, since he was already dead at this point) to protect their lives. There was no indication in the manga either that he had any ill will in doing so, but having his feelings being questioned by Rei, there was a doubt about that, nothing past this point.

Quote:
Because of this cliches Rei "must" be in "true love" with Takashi and her relation with Hisashi are considered as "betrayal" of "true love", a proof of her being a "slut".
Human heart cannot be defined as "sticking with the only one" regarding love and whatsoever. Regardless if the story will follow cliche or not, there is nothing that would guarantee that feelings won't fade over time or change due to specific cirmcunstances.
Or what, are you then claiming that every human having a shift of feelings are then "asshole/slut"?
Likewise, it isn't like people will remain on their feelings if it is "apparently" one sided.


I believe Slick Rick explained pretty well the situation in that triangle:
The anime was quite straightfoward and has shown circumstances of your usual couple that doesn't finalize into a real relationship because insecure feelings and indecisiveness. By extention, there is nothing that bond characters to stick with each other when things change.
It isn't like everyone is able to keep their feelings even if the situation calls for a break. While Takashi couldn't get over this fact, Rei probably had her feelings being discarded / diminished over time, then having Hisashi as a placeholder or something.
There is of course no reason to believe that Rei is completely in love with Takashi, due to the situation. However, it wouldn't be surprising if things go back like in the past, considering the bond they had before.
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Old 2010-07-07, 19:28   Link #866
Manji Midou
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Originally Posted by monir View Post
.Come on, you had to think of him as, "poor guy" more than once in the episode, right?

l felt sorry for him yet l don't hate Rei for her decision, l did dislike what she said to him even though l know it was in the heat of the moment and all shit has gone bad. ln the end l saw nothing pathetic lwith how he dealt with the rejection....people deal with it in many ways. l certainly don't consider Rei to be a bitch either or hold any hatred towards her for what went on in this episode.

Had it been me in that position and l been rejected l'd let her die with the rest of them.....
l'm joking......

waiting for episode 2 is a bitch...... l can't wait to see my goddess in action
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Old 2010-07-07, 19:30   Link #867
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I really don't get the whole "Rei was fed up with waiting argument" at all. If she really had feelings that were that strong for him and she was tired of waiting for him, why not confess herself? Nah, let's just go out with your former love interest's best friend instead.

Perhaps you could argue that by keeping quiet and moving on, she was trying to preserve their friendship. I don't really buy that though.

Take her failing a grade for example. If you interpret that as her failing to stay with him, why not confess and why give up so easily when you've gone to such extremes for your feelings? If she genuinely had issues that caused her to fail, why not confide in your childhood friend but instead tell him off by saying he wouldn't understand? >_<

Takashi may be brooding in this episode, but he's also surprisingly level headed. He goes straight to Rei to get her out of harm's way when he realizes something's wrong and overcomes the stress of the situation to go through with the two major kills this episode with the zombie that bit Hisashi and Hisashi himself.

Unfortunately, the only non profane initial impression I get out of Rei is selfishness. The love triangle situation, wanting to die, not wanting to be abandoned, not even acknowledging that hey, Takashi went right to protect me and saved my ass and damn I'm sorry for acting like a *****. I get this weird feeling that there's some type of subliminal weighing in Rei's mind here that given the fricking zombie apocalypse, she better cling to the best non zombified male in sight, previous rejection be damned I don't know, I just think Takashi can do a hell of alot better.
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Old 2010-07-07, 19:40   Link #868
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I always thought that *Bitch slap* was emergency matter
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Old 2010-07-07, 19:44   Link #869
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkard View Post
I really don't get the whole "Rei was fed up with waiting argument" at all. If she really had feelings that were that strong for him and she was tired of waiting for him, why not confess herself? Nah, let's just go out with your former love interest's best friend instead.
Things are absolutely not that simple. As much as the anime shows that Rei had feelings for him, so it did for Takashi about Rei.
The thing is that, not everyone is the same regarding how to keep/nurture a relationship into a next level or not.
And the confession is actually a dire step in any relationship. Being insecure or indecisive is always a problematic factor when it comes to engage the next step, and that's the real problem here.
Unless there is anything that prove otherwise, it seems Takashi and Rei were the only childhood friends. By default, they know each other very well for years. Because of that, having a change of relationship isn't exactly something you can imagine naturally. That is perhaps the reason why Rei tried to show some "flags", but Takashi was oblivious to them and didn't respond to her feelings.

Should she confess? Perhaps, but it requires courage but also certainty in their feelings. While she did admit she had feelings, there was nothing that demonstrate Takashi did in her mind (and frankly, they were really young when they did that pinky promise). Because of that, I can imagine a girl like Rei to be totally unsure in such adventure: if she confess, but get rejected, what now? Their relationship is shifted into some shaky grounds, and it is doubtful they can act as if "nothing happened". That is definitely different when you are trying to hook with someone you know from a much shorter period of time.
The first step isn't always made by the one who is loving the other. Depending of the situation, the person who is in love is actually waiting for the other to confess. With that in mind, that would simply confirm the relationship is definitely two sided and there is nothing to fear.
However, if both parties are thinking the same, it will just deteriorate at some point. In Rei's case, waiting was too much to bear, but overcoming the fear was perhaps too much as well. We don't know how she met Hisashi, nor how long it took for her to change her feelings.

Likewise, Takashi was "nostalgic" regarding the pinky promise, which means he took it seriously ever since. However, because it is a mere promise and the fact they were so young, perhaps it was the reason he didn't try anything either: it isn't like we are in Love Hina or anything, as such promise are easily forgotten or brushed as "well, it was just childish".

Quote:
Take her failing a grade for example. If you interpret that as her failing to stay with him, why not confess and why give up so easily when you've gone to such extremes for your feelings? If she genuinely had issues that caused her to fail, why not confide in your childhood friend but instead tell him off by saying he wouldn't understand? >_<
That would just make things worse: I doubt it would be all nice and dandy to explain that to the "source" of the problem.
True enough, if Takashi was really the origin of her grade drop, it would actually make the situation even more difficult.
If he rejects her, then what? if he accepts because of guilt, then what?

The situation doesn't call for a random relationship done in a rush. It is actually a wrong trigger for that.

Quote:
Unfortunately, the only non profane initial impression I get out of Rei is selfishness. The love triangle situation, wanting to die, not wanting to be abandoned, not even acknowledging that hey, Takashi went right to protect me and saved my ass and damn I'm sorry for acting like a *****. I get this weird feeling that there's some type of subliminal weighing in Rei's mind here that given the fricking zombie apocalypse, she better cling to the best non zombified male in sight, previous rejection be damned I don't know, I just think Takashi can do a hell of alot better.
There is a clear difference that Rei didn't have the time to think about that.
While Takashi did things with a clear mind, Rei wasn't prepared for that: she didn't even think about herself and Takashi being in danger. What was important at that given moment was Hisashi.
Because of that, she didn't have a calm mind and couldn't think straight. Now her boyfriend died in front of her, and her childhood friend smashed his head... who wouldn't be shocked?
Likewise, because the outbreak doesn't have a clear origin, whose fault it is? When a sudden / brutal death occurs, humans always try to lash out anger to the "cause" of death, if not, they will try to find a scapegoat... There is a lot of stages of "death denial" in human psychology, and while denying death is your main possibility, trying to bargain with death or changing the grief into violence are others.
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Old 2010-07-07, 19:45   Link #870
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When the separate forum is made...I think we'll need a topic about Rei & Takashi.

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Originally Posted by monir View Post
Come on, you had to think of him as, "poor guy" more than once in the episode, right?
I sure did. I also thought he was a fool with regards to Rei, but only slightly since I am sure he had his reasons.

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Originally Posted by Arturro View Post
Takashi doesn't want to be Rei friend - he loves her. Rei doesn't consider Takashi as her friend, but as her "childhood friend" - this is a difference. When you have a serious problems you goes to someone you trust - a friend, a lover or a family member. With her problems she went to Hisashi, not to Takashi. Takashi is someone close and dear to her, but not on the lover of friend level.

I hope comparing first episode of anime with first chapter of manga is not considered as spoilers, because differences between manga and anime are minimal. Just in case I put rest of this post in spoiler tags.
Spoiler:
Rei did tell Takashi that she had feelings for him in this episode.

Quote:
There is a cliche in shounen manga/anime about first girl winning and about "female childhood friend" being in love with male protagonist. Rei is both - first girl shown and his "childhood friend". Because of this cliches Rei "must" be in "true love" with Takashi and her relation with Hisashi are considered as "betrayal" of "true love", a proof of her being a "slut". So I'm not surprised there is so many "Rei haters". I'm sorry to disappoint "Rei haters", there is another cliche used, called "unlucky childhood friend" Takashi is the unlucky one.
You know, I think some people's feelings are negative from the start because of what she did to the Takashi. She did not act like the ideal girl so they automatically dislike her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
However, it wouldn't be surprising if things go back like in the past, considering the bond they had before.
I am really looking forward to see how their relationship progresses from her on in.
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Old 2010-07-07, 19:48   Link #871
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Originally Posted by Arkard View Post
I really don't get the whole "Rei was fed up with waiting argument" at all. If she really had feelings that were that strong for him and she was tired of waiting for him, why not confess herself? Nah, let's just go out with your former love interest's best friend instead.

Perhaps you could argue that by keeping quiet and moving on, she was trying to preserve their friendship. I don't really buy that though.

Take her failing a grade for example. If you interpret that as her failing to stay with him, why not confess and why give up so easily when you've gone to such extremes for your feelings? If she genuinely had issues that caused her to fail, why not confide in your childhood friend but instead tell him off by saying he wouldn't understand? >_<

Takashi may be brooding in this episode, but he's also surprisingly level headed. He goes straight to Rei to get her out of harm's way when he realizes something's wrong and overcomes the stress of the situation to go through with the two major kills this episode with the zombie that bit Hisashi and Hisashi himself.

Unfortunately, the only non profane initial impression I get out of Rei is selfishness. The love triangle situation, wanting to die, not wanting to be abandoned, not even acknowledging that hey, Takashi went right to protect me and saved my ass and damn I'm sorry for acting like a *****. I get this weird feeling that there's some type of subliminal weighing in Rei's mind here that given the fricking zombie apocalypse, she better cling to the best non zombified male in sight, previous rejection be damned I don't know, I just think Takashi can do a hell of alot better.
Thank you you sum up the problem I have with her in this ep. If she truely had problems and was getting tired of waiting why not tell him your feelings? Instead of going on with your "You don't understand my feelings!" ugh. Even if you two were close it doesn't mean he can truely understand you no one can he can't read your mind jeez. So instead of dealing with her issues with Takashi she ends up going out with he's best friend *facepalm*, it doesn't matter if she intended to hurt him or not either way it must have hurt him deeply. Assuming he's best friend knew that he liked Rei that was also pretty mess up for him to go out with her. Must be a Japan thing were girls can't deal with their relationship issues and not confess to the boy they like and instead must wait....
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Old 2010-07-07, 19:53   Link #872
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You've completely misunderstood my last post, maybe I was unclear, so I'll try to explain it again.

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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
There is nothing that support the fact she told Hisashi about her school issues whatsoever.
You're right, I've made just an assumption (well, not really... )

Quote:
Furthermore, Takashi thought "-maybe- it is true". For all it is worth, Takashi smashed Hisashi's head (not killed, since he was already dead at this point) to protect their lives. There was no indication in the manga either that he had any ill will in doing so, but having his feelings being questioned by Rei, there was a doubt about that, nothing past this point.
I didn't said he intentionally killed Hisashi and, as you pointed, Hisashi was already dead. I just wanted to point that in anime Rei is more bitchy than in manga, while Takashi is much less "honourable" in manga. In fact in manga both characters are a little more "grey" and interesting. I wonder if directors cut episode will show their relations in different way than first version.

Quote:
Human heart cannot be defined as "sticking with the only one" regarding love and whatsoever. Regardless if the story will follow cliche or not, there is nothing that would guarantee that feelings won't fade over time or change due to specific cirmcunstances.
Or what, are you then claiming that every human having a shift of feelings are then "asshole/slut"?
Likewise, it isn't like people will remain on their feelings if it is "apparently" one sided.
I was talking about cliche used in HotD and how part of fandom is reacting to any breach of "shounen rules". Cliche, by definition, doesn't have any relation with real life, nor realistic try to represent human emotions in works of fictions. Just read on TvTropes entries about "unlucky childhood friend", "first girl wins" and "childhood marriage proposal".
In other words I just wanted to show how stupid is bashing Rei just because she is not acting according to some old shounen anime cliche.


Quote:
I believe Slick Rick explained pretty well the situation in that triangle:
The anime was quite straightfoward and has shown circumstances of your usual couple that doesn't finalize into a real relationship because insecure feelings and indecisiveness. By extention, there is nothing that bond characters to stick with each other when things change.
It isn't like everyone is able to keep their feelings even if the situation calls for a break. While Takashi couldn't get over this fact, Rei probably had her feelings being discarded / diminished over time, then having Hisashi as a placeholder or something.
I'm sure I've said same thing. Rei was once in love (as a child) with Takashi, but she no longer is. Rei is in love with Hisashi now.

Quote:
There is of course no reason to believe that Rei is completely in love with Takashi, due to the situation. However, it wouldn't be surprising if things go back like in the past, considering the bond they had before.
What will happen in future only authors know. She might fall for him again, or she may not. IMO if she will her biggest problem will be to convince Takashi that she truly loves him.
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Old 2010-07-07, 19:55   Link #873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZODDGUTS View Post
Thank you you sum up the problem I have with her in this ep. If she truely had problems and was getting tired of waiting why not tell him your feelings? Instead of going on with your "You don't understand my feelings!" ugh. Even if you two were close it doesn't mean he can truely understand you no one can he can't read your mind jeez. So instead of dealing with her issues with Takashi she ends up going out with he's best friend *facepalm*, it doesn't matter if she intended to hurt him or not either way it must have hurt him deeply. Assuming he's best friend knew that he liked Rei that was also pretty mess up for him to go out with her. Must be a Japan thing were girls can't deal with their relationship issues and not confess to the boy they like and instead must wait....
Objection.
The fact she had trouble to deal with her feelings and her grades doesn't mean she found the solution and starts dating with Hisashi.
Actually, it is very likely that several weeks have passed between this, since she had to repeat a grade, and the flashbacks show Rei and Hisashi together only when Hisashi states they are again in the same class.

Ergo, the turmoil between their romance kept going and at some point during the next year, she was dating Hisashi.

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Originally Posted by Arturro View Post
In other words I just wanted to show how stupid is bashing Rei just because she is not acting according to some old shounen anime cliche.
I was actually supplementing your answer, not arguing against it. I noticed the point about cliché you see.

Quote:
What will happen in future only authors know. She might fall for him again, or she may not. IMO if she will her biggest problem will be to convince Takashi that she truly loves him.
That's actually the best point in that kind of romance: the fact how a relationship will progress properly, with one party proving the other isn't a placeholder or anything.

Last edited by Klashikari; 2010-07-07 at 20:25.
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Old 2010-07-07, 20:04   Link #874
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Originally Posted by Arturro View Post
You've completely misunderstood my last post, maybe I was unclear, so I'll try to explain it again.



You're right, I've made just an assumption (well, not really... )


I didn't said he intentionally killed Hisashi and, as you pointed, Hisashi was already dead. I just wanted to point that in anime Rei is more bitchy than in manga, while Takashi is much less "honourable" in manga. In fact in manga both characters are a little more "grey" and interesting. I wonder if directors cut episode will show their relations in different way than first version.


I was talking about cliche used in HotD and how part of fandom is reacting to any breach of "shounen rules". Cliche, by definition, doesn't have any relation with real life, nor realistic try to represent human emotions in works of fictions. Just read on TvTropes entries about "unlucky childhood friend", "first girl wins" and "childhood marriage proposal".
In other words I just wanted to show how stupid is bashing Rei just because she is not acting according to some old shounen anime cliche.



I'm sure I've said same thing. Rei was once in love (as a child) with Takashi, but she no longer is. Rei is in love with Hisashi now.



What will happen in future only authors know. She might fall for him again, or she may not. IMO if she will her biggest problem will be to convince Takashi that she truly loves him.
This time you are much more clear and I agree with all of your reasoning. The one thing the show has already impressed upon that it might not shy away from bringing some of the real life dilemma any budding romantic relationship may go through before fruition. Two people really need to invest on each other with all their faults and merits before something positive can come out of it. Even then it is difficult to sustain the same amount of feelings for each other at a consistent basis during the course of the relationship.

I know it's hard to conceive, but girls are people too. Rei is a perfect example. She makes sense to some of us. She knew what she wanted and mustered the courage to follow up on it. Obviously Takashi came out the loser and since we have watched the first episode from his perspective as far as Rei was concerned and the event surrounding her, the sympathy factor generally went against her. At the same, credit to the storytelling, it hasn't shied away from exposing Takashi. I don't know how far the show will push for the realism factor in terms of romance, but it already made a positive impression on the subject as far as myself is concerned. I am also happy to see I'm not the only one in the matter because few others have also enjoyed Rei's character in the episode.

Looking forward to episode 2.
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Old 2010-07-07, 20:08   Link #875
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Originally Posted by Arturro View Post

I'm sure I've said same thing. Rei was once in love (as a child) with Takashi, but she no longer is. Rei is in love with Hisashi now.


What will happen in future only authors know. She might fall for him again, or she may not. IMO if she will her biggest problem will be to convince Takashi that she truly loves him.
Was she in love with him with a clear conscience though?

Her rejection of Takashi wasn't exactly a straight forward no you had your chance but waited to long. It sounded like there was hesitation/remorse when she had to say it.

Also why was she looking uncomfortable with the shot of them across the trail tracks? Was it because we were looking through Takashi's eyes at that moment and she noticed him? Or was he not even there and she felt uncomfortable with the situation anyways?

Of course proving that she still has feelings for him, and has come to love him (possibly later on) may be a task to big for her to fill. Although he said he loves her, he seemed pretty pissed off about her breaking that pinky promise(I still don't know why it's considered such a huge deal though, culture thing maybe?) So it seems she has a lot of trust she needs to gain back.
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Old 2010-07-07, 20:12   Link #876
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@Klashikari - Rei didn't confessed to Takashi and rejected when he did. Rei was the one who confessed to Hasashi (it's manga only, but episode 1 and chapter 1 are so close so we might assume it's same story and characters, just different medium). Rei, Takashi and Hasashi knows each other at least since middle school. Hasashi was not just Takashi best friend and Rei boyfriend, he was their childhood friend as well. Rei was brave enough to confess to one of her childhood friends but not to the other?
So, you're suggesting Rei repeated a grade just to be with Takashi, yet she rejected him when he confessed? It doesn't make sense. Rei life is not turning around Takashi.
I couldn't understand why some people, when female protagonist of shounen anime doesn't respond to male protagonist feelings, immediately assume she is either a "betraying bitch" or at least "she is not with him because of stupid misunderstanding". Is it too hard to imagine that she might have fallen for other guy than male protagonist? She is not betraying, nor stupid, just love someone else.
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Old 2010-07-07, 20:21   Link #877
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arturro View Post
@Klashikari - Rei didn't confessed to Takashi and rejected when he did. Rei was the one who confessed to Hasashi (it's manga only, but episode 1 and chapter 1 are so close so we might assume it's same story and characters, just different medium). Rei, Takashi and Hasashi knows each other at least since middle school. Hasashi was not just Takashi best friend and Rei boyfriend, he was their childhood friend as well. Rei was brave enough to confess to one of her childhood friends but not to the other?
I don't think middle school would be comparable to a childhood friend. As much as the "we are again in the same class" certainly implies that the two boys know each other from the 3rd year of middle school, it doesn't make Hisashi on even footing with Takashi. Heck, it doesn't even pin point when Rei and Hisashi know each other. We just know they started dating each other during spring.
Quote:
So, you're suggesting Rei repeated a grade just to be with Takashi, yet she rejected him when he confessed? It doesn't make sense. Rei life is not turning around Takashi.
I never suggested that one bit. What I said is that there is no reason to assume that Rei went to see Hisashi immediately after her grade issue.
For all it is worth, few days/weeks have passed between that issue and her starting to date Hisashi.
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Old 2010-07-07, 20:25   Link #878
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It looked like to me that the confession and dating was a relatively recent occurrence. At least it seems to have been after they started the new school semester and Takagi said that the semester had just started recently.
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Old 2010-07-07, 20:27   Link #879
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
I don't think middle school would be comparable to a childhood friend. As much as the "we are again in the same class" certainly implies that the two boys know each other from the 3rd year of middle school, it doesn't make Hisashi on even footing with Takashi. Heck, it doesn't even pin point when Rei and Hisashi know each other. We just know they started dating each other during spring.
I never suggested that one bit. What I said is that there is no reason to assume that Rei went to see Hisashi after her grade issue.

Wouldn't that quote of them being in the same class only be directed at Takashi? They are second years correct?

So if Rei got held back that means she was never in the same class as the two boys to begin with until this year.

Unless we are assuming multiple time skips in which she got held back when they entered first year was in their class and now its second yea and the 3 are in the same class again. Which I think is just taking it way to far.
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Old 2010-07-07, 20:32   Link #880
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I thought Rei and Takashi were now supposed to be second years but Rei got held back. And Hisashi was one year younger along with Takagi and Hirano since they were in that class too. Unless there is some other possiblity since I don't know Japanese school system that well.
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