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Old 2012-12-23, 15:01   Link #1181
NoirX
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Watching the last episode of Total Eclipse made me also wonder on some things.
1. Are there any mention of them taking part in actual BETA fights?
2. If I recall the ending of TE's anime and LN is a little different?
3. How will the TE's game be?
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Old 2012-12-23, 16:43   Link #1182
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NoirX I'll Answer in best of my knowledge.
1)Pilots of Argos Flight are test pilots, as in they are not involved in combat missions. So no BETA fights.
2)LN are not finished. Anime has original ending.
3)Total Eclipse VN game will conclude the story with so call real end or true end, call it what you want. Basically, what game states in its story will be canon.
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Old 2012-12-23, 20:46   Link #1183
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During the last episode, I noticed bad-guy leader throwing a knife ominously at Japan...

....what's the date this story ends?? I know it's 2001, and IIRC the series started in September(?). I wonder if there's any connection between bad guy and what happens within the next couple of months in Japan. And I wonder if a certain bratty-savior is on the planet yet.
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Old 2012-12-24, 02:58   Link #1184
NoirX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by touge-n00b View Post
During the last episode, I noticed bad-guy leader throwing a knife ominously at Japan...

....what's the date this story ends?? I know it's 2001, and IIRC the series started in September(?). I wonder if there's any connection between bad guy and what happens within the next couple of months in Japan. And I wonder if a certain bratty-savior is on the planet yet.
TE should end right before Shirogane arrives at Yokohama base at 22nd of September. Btw the Allegiance leader kinda gives a feeling like he's Ikaruga.
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Old 2012-12-24, 03:47   Link #1185
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Originally Posted by NoirX View Post
TE should end right before Shirogane arrives at Yokohama base at 22nd of September. Btw the Allegiance leader kinda gives a feeling like he's Ikaruga.
Thats a bit off. Takeru arrives on the 22 of October, so there is one month in between at least.

That thrown knife? if you look at the upside down map, it is right on the area where Yokohama base is. And if you recall, there was an HSST incident that occured the month after...
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Old 2012-12-24, 04:07   Link #1186
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Originally Posted by grevierr View Post
Thats a bit off. Takeru arrives on the 22 of October, so there is one month in between at least.

That thrown knife? if you look at the upside down map, it is right on the area where Yokohama base is. And if you recall, there was an HSST incident that occured the month after...
That was the first thing that popped into my mind. I;d be very interested to see if there's an (obvious?) connection.

I was even thinking along the lines of the 12/5 incident, it seems kind of like a similar situation to this Yukon "terrorist" attack.
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Old 2012-12-24, 04:21   Link #1187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grevierr View Post
Thats a bit off. Takeru arrives on the 22 of October, so there is one month in between at least.

That thrown knife? if you look at the upside down map, it is right on the area where Yokohama base is. And if you recall, there was an HSST incident that occured the month after...
Yes, there is a gap of 1 month between TE and Alternative which probably would be covered by the TE VN

Quote:
Originally Posted by touge-n00b View Post
That was the first thing that popped into my mind. I;d be very interested to see if there's an (obvious?) connection.

I was even thinking along the lines of the 12/5 incident, it seems kind of like a similar situation to this Yukon "terrorist" attack.
12/5 incident was caused by Sagiri Naoya alone though and he's not on contact with the "shadowed guy" as far as it is shown.
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Old 2012-12-24, 04:37   Link #1188
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Originally Posted by NoirX View Post
Yes, there is a gap of 1 month between TE and Alternative which probably would be covered by the TE VN



12/5 incident was caused by Sagiri Naoya alone though and he's not on contact with the "shadowed guy" as far as it is shown.
But it was heavily implied that outside forces aided in spurring the 12/5 incident on. I remember explicitly that the CIA had a strong hand in it.

I really doubt this TE baddie had anything to do with it, but you never know. Just replace the RLF with Japanese Extremists and the setup is similar.
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Old 2012-12-24, 05:00   Link #1189
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Originally Posted by touge-n00b View Post
But it was heavily implied that outside forces aided in spurring the 12/5 incident on. I remember explicitly that the CIA had a strong hand in it.

I really doubt this TE baddie had anything to do with it, but you never know. Just replace the RLF with Japanese Extremists and the setup is similar.
There are quite a number of differences if you want to put it that way. Firstly, the RLF attack is a terrorist attack while 12/5 is a coup d'etat. Next the RLF was being used by the "shadow guy" while Sagiri acted on his own accord. Lastly, the RLF motive was because the suppression on the refugee camps while 12/5 motive is because the Japanese had enough of UN interfering in their territories. It's a completely 2 different types of war, a terrorist attack and a civil war.
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Old 2012-12-24, 10:26   Link #1190
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Yes, there is a gap of 1 month between TE and Alternative which probably would be covered by the TE VN
Yup, even with the hardness of Yui's head (though her eyes are jelly), she still needs about a month to recover from a HS.

Don't forget the PV endings have her reporting in for Operation Ouka, which might mean she never got to return to Alaska in the meantime. (And if Kouki has his way, maybe never...)

Strongly suspect the Master is French or from the EU, from the way the map is positioned.
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Old 2012-12-24, 12:59   Link #1191
touge-n00b
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Originally Posted by NoirX View Post
There are quite a number of differences if you want to put it that way. Firstly, the RLF attack is a terrorist attack while 12/5 is a coup d'etat. Next the RLF was being used by the "shadow guy" while Sagiri acted on his own accord. Lastly, the RLF motive was because the suppression on the refugee camps while 12/5 motive is because the Japanese had enough of UN interfering in their territories. It's a completely 2 different types of war, a terrorist attack and a civil war.
Alright I admit I was probably stretching with the comparison between the two.

But again, I explicitly remember (whether it was mentioned the actual LN or in a side story) that while Sagiri was the important figure, he was not the ONLY reason it happened. Remember the rebel who began blindley shooting at the Imperial gurad in Tokyo, 2nd Lt. Thelseff firing during the ceasefire, and Walken vs Sagiri? There were bigger powers than Sagiri at work during the coup as well.

Although the more I think about it, the more my connection between the 12/5 incident and the Leader becomes moot, haha.
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Old 2012-12-24, 15:34   Link #1192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grevierr View Post
Yup, even with the hardness of Yui's head (though her eyes are jelly), she still needs about a month to recover from a HS.

Don't forget the PV endings have her reporting in for Operation Ouka, which might mean she never got to return to Alaska in the meantime. (And if Kouki has his way, maybe never...)

Strongly suspect the Master is French or from the EU, from the way the map is positioned.
Well ain't Yui got shot in the ending of the TE LN? that might be one of the reason she didn't come back. Also Master's artwork shows that his face isn't asian, most likely as you said en EU.

Quote:
Originally Posted by touge-n00b View Post
Alright I admit I was probably stretching with the comparison between the two.

But again, I explicitly remember (whether it was mentioned the actual LN or in a side story) that while Sagiri was the important figure, he was not the ONLY reason it happened. Remember the rebel who began blindley shooting at the Imperial gurad in Tokyo, 2nd Lt. Thelseff firing during the ceasefire, and Walken vs Sagiri? There were bigger powers than Sagiri at work during the coup as well.

Although the more I think about it, the more my connection between the 12/5 incident and the Leader becomes moot, haha.
Well yeah, the one who starting the coup and Thesleff opening fire at Sagiri is quite strange as when Walken tried to call to her to ask the reason for the shot, she ignored him. But that could also be linked with TDA where the Seattle border battle between US-JP vs Canada-French begin, someone unidentified from one of the two sides opens fire first which caused the war. And while TDA has Ikaruga as the bad guy, he could also be linked to the Master.
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Old 2012-12-24, 19:06   Link #1193
grevierr
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Ok guys, here you go, the full transcript of the story of MuvluvAlternative: Resurrection.

http://muvluv.wikia.com/wiki/Muv-Luv...s_Resurrection

Will be back when i wake up to upload the pics, all 180+ of them.
Been working on this for 18+ hrs at the comp straight for the past 4 days worth. Crashing now.
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Old 2012-12-24, 19:26   Link #1194
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I read a bit of it. Gripping stuff. I guess I'll read more some other time.

Thanks for your hard work! :>
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Old 2012-12-24, 22:46   Link #1195
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Originally Posted by grevierr View Post
Ok guys, here you go, the full transcript of the story of MuvluvAlternative: Resurrection.

http://muvluv.wikia.com/wiki/Muv-Luv...s_Resurrection

Will be back when i wake up to upload the pics, all 180+ of them.
Been working on this for 18+ hrs at the comp straight for the past 4 days worth. Crashing now.
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And here Resurrection gives the rationale behind Erma's actions during the 12/5 incident.
Spoiler for Brainwashing.:


Forget the BETA, I'm even more horrified of what happens after humanity kicks the BETA off their planet and turn back on each other.
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Old 2012-12-24, 22:56   Link #1196
wavehawk
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FYI This might fit more under a different thread, but...
No, this might actually be a hint to somehting---the BETA don't consider themselves to be livign things, right? Could it be that the "Creators" of the BETA might have actually used this ABS material to 'program' sentient organic lifeforms to think they weren't alive?
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Old 2012-12-25, 00:54   Link #1197
grevierr
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Ah you guys got it wrong.
It was never said the ABS was derived from BETA tech, only the virus.
If it can be mass produced so easily, by any country, it cannot be BETA tech.

And mind control is very widely present in the MLverse, since hypnosis is an everyday affair. Its just a matter of whether what degree that they want. The ABS is not needed for that, only drugs.
Otherwise, you would be saying the Twins had ABS in them during their berserk charge as well.

Also dont forget, plot mechanics wise, the ABS term is created years after MLA, and as an example of how to get around espers.
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Old 2012-12-25, 01:02   Link #1198
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So much for that theory. But I still don't believe the BETA creators were benignly assumign carbon life-forms could not exist.
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Old 2012-12-25, 02:23   Link #1199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grevierr View Post
Ok guys, here you go, the full transcript of the story of MuvluvAlternative: Resurrection.

http://muvluv.wikia.com/wiki/Muv-Luv...s_Resurrection

Will be back when i wake up to upload the pics, all 180+ of them.
Been working on this for 18+ hrs at the comp straight for the past 4 days worth. Crashing now.
Images
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?
Great,now Yuuko sensei is Tactical Genius

....
Deep within the wicked BETA Kashgar hive,the Superior strain,calling itself the "Superior Existence",assuming direct control other reactor strains that also burrowed themselves deep in their individual hive all over the surface of Earth to command the lower BETA strain and exterminate carbon based robot that called themselves "Human" in order to mine out the precious carbon element for the Creator.However,without warning,a humongous object that rivaled even the Fort-class in size came out of the tunnel and into the main hall where the Superior strain resided.Somehow,the gigantic flying fortress seemed to be able to evade the detection of BETA inner carbonic sensory capabilities.That when the Superior strain realized as the XG-70 charged its twin particle cannons that were concentrating with pure FUCK YOU.That magnificent bastard.That tactical geniu-

"KOUZUKI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

And then there is no more.The Superior strain,that called itself the "Superior Existence",is rendered non-existence.
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Old 2012-12-25, 03:14   Link #1200
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Originally Posted by grevierr View Post
Ah you guys got it wrong.
It was never said the ABS was derived from BETA tech, only the virus.
If it can be mass produced so easily, by any country, it cannot be BETA tech.

And mind control is very widely present in the MLverse, since hypnosis is an everyday affair. Its just a matter of whether what degree that they want. The ABS is not needed for that, only drugs.
Otherwise, you would be saying the Twins had ABS in them during their berserk charge as well.

Also dont forget, plot mechanics wise, the ABS term is created years after MLA, and as an example of how to get around espers.
Hmm, I suppose so, but while ABS was not directly mentioned to have been derived from BETA tech, there still exists the possibility that research into BETA played a important part in its development.

At the moment, all we know is what ABS and how it works; from what we know, it only exists in the Muvluv Unlimited/Alternative universe where there are BETA. There's still a possibility that it can be derived BETA tech (if it was developed as a countermeasure to Alt 3, it could have come about while they were making sure their psychics could connect with the BETA), unless Age was to specifically deny it. Ultimately, this is all conjecture, especially in relation to the BETA. We know more about the complex socio-political scheming and romantic relationships of Muv Luv, than the BETA or their creators.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wavehawk View Post
So much for that theory. But I still don't believe the BETA creators were benignly assumign carbon life-forms could not exist.
It could be possible they honestly believe that; my best hypothesis is that they program that into the BETA due to the fact that given what the BETA are, their entire civilization is supported by Carbon-based "bio" technology and their "technology" has developed to the point of true AIs. The rule that no Carbon-based lifeforms can exist may also be the rule that keeps those AIs from identifying themselves as living beings, and to keep them from rebelling. Going from that, identifying humanity as living beings would be directly contradicting what amounts to the creator's version of the Laws of Robotics.

If I know how Kouki's stories usually orient, I would bet on the latter. That would mean the creators may try to exterminate humanity as quickly as possible if they found out we existed. Of course, barring the possibility humanity destroys itself before then, more despair for the masses.
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