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View Poll Results: How annoying?
After a few minutes of that sort of thing I want to NUKE THEM TO HELL. 167 30.31%
It's only annoying when it's really excessive. 247 44.83%
It's interesting, like a sort of anime slang, but I wouldn't say it myself. 44 7.99%
Using Nihongo in my sentences is cooool ^____^ You are a chibi baka! 42 7.62%
おばけアメリカンのだ、日本語わかれない 51 9.26%
Voters: 551. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-12-11, 03:20   Link #461
npcomplete
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.. so here's my take on this off-topic topic

I think a blanket rule of "translating everything" and nothing more, can lead to a very lossy transmission. I use that term because I believe that translation should strive to be about transmitting thoughts, rather than be purely about transforming words and grammar from one language to another. The process of communicating ideas across could involve the education of the listener or an expansion of the destination language.

By listener education I mean to actually translate the source in its entirety as best as possible then supplement the translation with a written or verbal explanation. One an example is when one person uses some very formal keigo unexpectedly, and another person responds jokingly, "so you're a samurai now?" likewise for words like "boku", "ore" -- they should simply be translated as "I" without further explanation, IF used in the expected context. However, if used in a peculiar manner, such as by a girl instead.. then it should still be left as "I" but accompanied with an explanation.

As for expanding the language, why translate "shinigami" or "ayakashi" when we already leave "samurai", "shogun", "karate", "katana", etc. in tact? IMHO, English would be further enriched by importing those words.

and it isn't just Japanese, there are many examples from other languages as well: "phoenix", "griffin", "seraphim", "nephalim", "sphinx" and so on.. and those are the more simpler words that have pretty concise definitions in English. But there are others that don't have any concrete definitions in English at all like "chakra", "prana", "shakti". Just as Eskimos have many different ways of describing ice and snow, there are over 20 words in Sanskrit that could only map to "mind" or "consciousness" in English for example, when each of those original words carry unique meanings.

I'm also glad for the converse, where other languages import English and other foreign words. Imagine instead of simply saying "computer", they decided to form a native word that combined 'electric' + 'thinking' + 'machine'. Heck, I can't imagine what more esoteric western words like "dopamine", "tryptophan" and recent english words like "ansible" would be like in other languages if they were to follow the translate-not-import route.
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Old 2008-12-11, 03:36   Link #462
Vexx
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oooh, I like npcomplete. Welcome to the forums.
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Old 2008-12-11, 03:48   Link #463
othera
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When someone is talking HALF ENGLISH HALF JAPANESE i get the urge to slap them.
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Old 2008-12-11, 04:01   Link #464
FateAnomaly
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Language is a tool to communicate thoughts to the other party. As long as the purpose is served, it doesn't matter. So adding jap to sentences if the audience understand is ok. If they don't, theres no point in it except to annoy others.
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Old 2008-12-11, 04:09   Link #465
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I think it's pretty funny if you do it as if your serious about it.

But hearing other "trying to" imitate it (as in a rubbish way), it just makes me so pissed that I wanna rip their heads off :[.
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Old 2008-12-11, 04:15   Link #466
Vexx
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You know, its really hard to read posts where people use the term "jap" without them sounding incredibly racist.... just noting that many people file that term in the same category as "wop" "dago" "chink" and other dehumanizing terms. I realize most people are just typing lazy .... but keep that in mind, please.
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Old 2008-12-11, 04:31   Link #467
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
You know, its really hard to read posts where people use the term "jap" without them sounding incredibly racist.... just noting that many people file that term in the same category as "wop" "dago" "chink" and other dehumanizing terms. I realize most people are just typing lazy .... but keep that in mind, please.
I have an alternative: JP. No, really. Shorthand for Japanese does become JP at times. Koreans are KR, Singaproeans SG, the list goes on.
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Old 2008-12-11, 05:03   Link #468
Mystique
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
You know, its really hard to read posts where people use the term "jap" without them sounding incredibly racist.... just noting that many people file that term in the same category as "wop" "dago" "chink" and other dehumanizing terms. I realize most people are just typing lazy .... but keep that in mind, please.
Political correctness always depends on the locality of the language and history to cause offense. I presume it was used as a derogotory term during WW2 used by americans, right?
(more an american/japanese reference?)
To be honest, I don't think many here would even note that it carries an offence. At least for me, it's simply a case of shortening down 'english' (by language or people, since we're 'english' or 'british') and japanese' to 3 letters.
Eng and Jap.
Sometimes, i use UK/JP - when referring to the countries themselves, else i don't think most people aim to offend when shortening down the word.
Eitherway duly noted.
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Old 2008-12-11, 05:05   Link #469
FateAnomaly
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I don't see how the term jap can be racist but fine, i will refrain from using it for the sake of the sensitive people out there.
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Old 2008-12-11, 05:29   Link #470
NoSanninWa
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I've always loved the title of this thread. It completely skips over the question of asking, "Is it annoying when people inject Japanese into their speech," and goes straight to asking, "How annoying is it?"

Just sayin'. Since it seemed less troublesome than off-topic discussion already in progress.
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Old 2008-12-11, 05:43   Link #471
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Originally Posted by Mystique View Post
Political correctness always depends on the locality of the language and history to cause offense. I presume it was used as a derogotory term during WW2 used by americans, right?
(more an american/japanese reference?)
To be honest, I don't think many here would even note that it carries an offence
It really depends on the person. I'm full-blooded Japanese but I don't particularly take offense to the term. But I can understand how some people dislike it being used. I just never used it, past or present, because I never saw the need to and never cared to use it.
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Old 2008-12-11, 13:57   Link #472
Vexx
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Spoiler for Since the explanation of the term "jap" is being hinted as off-topic by our mod:


As far as the topic... it totally depends on the context. Learning to speak japanese with others or less than proficient? Then its going to be a mix of japanese with english thrown in when the word won't come. Learning to speak english? Then its going to be a mix of english with the japanese thrown in.
But yes, the people running up and down the hall screaming 'baka" obviously don't realize that the term is either a serious insult (or a term of endearment to someone so close they understand the intent). The rest of it I'm rather ambivalent on - though I'll often ask if they're *taking* Japanese or trying to learn the language and recommend they do. Otherwise, they sound kind of like the silly people I grew up with in Texas who thought it was funny to randomly use horribly pronounced Spanish terms.

Last edited by Vexx; 2008-12-11 at 14:15.
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Old 2008-12-12, 00:59   Link #473
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ok to tell you truth i have people do this all the time i talk to on my im and i like it to a point but after a few hours of it i want to shoot them.god bless my friend for teaching my very basic Japaneses
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Old 2008-12-12, 01:06   Link #474
ZephyrLeanne
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Otherwise, they sound kind of like the silly people I grew up with in Texas who thought it was funny to randomly use horribly pronounced Spanish terms.
Remember Bush's first oil exploration company? It was named Arbusto. He thought it was Spanish for Bush. No it wasn't, it meant shrub.
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Old 2008-12-13, 11:12   Link #475
kyon.haruhi.suzumiya
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Remember Bush's first oil exploration company? It was named Arbusto. He thought it was Spanish for Bush. No it wasn't, it meant shrub.
Damn, really? I remembered this being said as far as British Columbia... but it's actually true!?
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Old 2008-12-14, 10:26   Link #476
ZephyrLeanne
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Damn, really? I remembered this being said as far as British Columbia... but it's actually true!?
You didn't know? I found it on wiki once. But now I can't find it...

Anyways, what do you people think of wasei-eigo?
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Old 2008-12-14, 12:04   Link #477
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I don't mind cuz I usually know wat they're sayin....unless they ramble it VERY FAST then, we have a problem
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Old 2008-12-14, 12:06   Link #478
Deso
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I find it weird.....if they're just going to speak some of a language....don't do it......learn the whole language then show off.....it makes me mad......
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Old 2008-12-14, 12:47   Link #479
Terrestrial Dream
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Originally Posted by npcomplete View Post
.. so here's my take on this off-topic topic

I think a blanket rule of "translating everything" and nothing more, can lead to a very lossy transmission. I use that term because I believe that translation should strive to be about transmitting thoughts, rather than be purely about transforming words and grammar from one language to another. The process of communicating ideas across could involve the education of the listener or an expansion of the destination language.

By listener education I mean to actually translate the source in its entirety as best as possible then supplement the translation with a written or verbal explanation. One an example is when one person uses some very formal keigo unexpectedly, and another person responds jokingly, "so you're a samurai now?" likewise for words like "boku", "ore" -- they should simply be translated as "I" without further explanation, IF used in the expected context. However, if used in a peculiar manner, such as by a girl instead.. then it should still be left as "I" but accompanied with an explanation.

As for expanding the language, why translate "shinigami" or "ayakashi" when we already leave "samurai", "shogun", "karate", "katana", etc. in tact? IMHO, English would be further enriched by importing those words.

and it isn't just Japanese, there are many examples from other languages as well: "phoenix", "griffin", "seraphim", "nephalim", "sphinx" and so on.. and those are the more simpler words that have pretty concise definitions in English. But there are others that don't have any concrete definitions in English at all like "chakra", "prana", "shakti". Just as Eskimos have many different ways of describing ice and snow, there are over 20 words in Sanskrit that could only map to "mind" or "consciousness" in English for example, when each of those original words carry unique meanings.

I'm also glad for the converse, where other languages import English and other foreign words. Imagine instead of simply saying "computer", they decided to form a native word that combined 'electric' + 'thinking' + 'machine'. Heck, I can't imagine what more esoteric western words like "dopamine", "tryptophan" and recent english words like "ansible" would be like in other languages if they were to follow the translate-not-import route.
Hmm... interesting my view on language tends to be translate everything and transmitting thoughts could be done using the context. And for expanding languages, like I said before if it doesn't have good counterpart then they don't have to translate it. The examples that you mentioned like shinigami could be translated to reaper or death god. On other hand word like Samurai like Shogun can't be translated as it is its own word or its a title that is special to Japan only. And words like computer could be translated properly if people decided to do so. For example in Japan soccer is called soccer but Korea and China have it in their own world.
This is just an opinion, I think having many different words that are unnecessarily remained intact from other country shows cultural division. It is showing that something from other cultures are not part of their own culture and it gives feeling of something foreign. Of course one could make different argument saying that by having different words from different culture it shows cultural acceptance and lead to more globalization.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Spoiler for Since the explanation of the term "jap" is being hinted as off-topic by our mod:


Actually I don't mind the term gook at all . I don't know maybe because today's kid tend to use the racial term more loosely so all those term lost some of the offensiveness.
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Old 2008-12-14, 15:49   Link #480
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Actually I don't mind the term gook at all . I don't know maybe because today's kid tend to use the racial term more loosely so all those term lost some of the offensiveness.
It has less to do with the word itself and more with the situation it's invoked in as well as the tone that it's said in. Really, nearly any word or term can be made quite offensive. The reason why racial slurs are more offensive than random words is because there's a history of hatred associated with them. These words can still be used playfully or even lovingly, but if you use them on people with whom a relationship of trust has not been established then it will almost certainly come off as derogatory, as though you are identifying that person by all of the negative traits of their ethnic background.
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