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Old 2011-04-11, 03:47   Link #41
Irenicus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darknemo2000
I don't see a problem.
Don't lie. You do. We all do.

Lotte crushing on him, cute. Him making moves on her, call the FBI.

Your aversion to "whores" comes out pretty harsh too. Come on, the MILF's the succubus queen, it's the job description. Plus the way she's all deredere just for him *despite* her experience and repertoire is all the more reason to ship it. Same reason the experienced, handsome man is popular in shoujo manga; he treats the heroine special over other girls in his life, his One True Love despite all the options. We just don't see this dynamic played out as often on the male side [see link above for reason].
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Old 2011-04-11, 04:47   Link #42
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She is a freaking nymph. Even that old butler said her to be ("Queen is known to be a nymph") meaning that not all Succubus are nymphs just that the queen is infamous for being like that.

3000 lovers do not come out of necessity of feeding alone. She is a nymphomaniac slut.

She will fuck a lover disregarding her own daughter in bed. It tells the best about her. She may feel sorry apologize for it and be deredere crossing her heart that will never happen again, but once she will get into the same sitution it will repeat again and again. Thats how nymphs are. Like alcoholics they just can't stay away from their addiction.

Oh yeah she can be dere dere one moment but it wont stop her from going to chasing every guy who has a penis attached to.

Not to mention that the hero doesnt have any special feelings towards her but the gratitude for giving him a daughter. Even back then when she conceived from him he was just caring about her without any other motives its just that she tricked him (thinking it was a dream) into sleeping with her.

She fucked every each of her harem and considering from her actions on beach is always eager to make it grow (though she met the hero already was a bit deredere butthen goes on cockhunt like its nothing pretty easily).

Granted she was bit more moody after meeting him so she only had her futunari bodyguard fuck her that evening. But thats pretty much it.

And so what that she is dere dere just for him? Its like in those netorare mangas where heroine screams how much the hero is her only true love but enjoys talking other guys staff into her still. There will be no romance between the queen and him. Look we had 41 chapters already and after the beach chapter queen only got the flashback where it was explained the whole thing, while it was hero's and Rotte's relationship at the focus and at a built during all others (and you should not doubt that the queen was fucking around during that time out anyway so its not like she is sad and lonely)

And thats not double standarts. Double standarts would be saying that she was disgusting to rape a child and it would not be disgusting for hero to sleep with Rotte. But I am not saying that. I am saying that if it was ok for the queen to sleep with the child then it should be ok with hero sleeping with Rotte after all Rotte is not blood related to him. If FBI was not called back then and now you think its a good pairing then dont call FBI now, let them sleep and once she grows up more have a good pairing too.

I doubt that any man in shoujo or josei was as experienced as the queen. You would need to be a real man-whore (gigolo) and extremely active at that to achieve such level of experience. Those experienced guys from shoujo's or hot MILF's are nothing but a virgin's compared to this whore.

Last edited by Darknemo2000; 2011-04-11 at 05:04.
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Old 2011-04-11, 05:20   Link #43
Seiryuu
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I wonder a little bit about how a relationship with the queen would go. There's been a few spots where it seems to suggest that Naoya is quite... gifted. There's very few men out there who will make other men actually think "A HORSE!?" He might just be able to satisfy queeny on his own. Woudln't make any bets on it though.


One thing I've been wondering, could Naoya actually be Lotte's father? We know that Lotte and Asuha are the same age, which makes them twin sisters. And also, just like Asuha grew up believing that her mother died when she was little, Lotte grew up believing the exact same thing about her father. Combine the similarity of their stories with their twin status and it starts to look a little suspicious...
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Old 2011-04-11, 05:29   Link #44
Irenicus
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First, chill out dude.

Your word choices are just full of hate and anger. Like seriously, what the...?

Now, moving on,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
She is a freaking nymph. Even that old butler said her to be ("Queen is known to be a nymph") meaning that not all Succubus are nymph just that the queen is infamous for being like that.
So the queen of a race of nymphs, by definition mind, is the most accomplished nymph of all. Does not...wait, it does compute. The horror.

Quote:
3000 lovers do not come out of necessity of feeding alone. She is a nymphomaniac slut.
Statistics.

See, the thing is, *nothing* of the sort happens "on screen." The author is clever enough to know that showing the queen indeed fucking around with 3000 men or even a bunch of other random guys would have been distasteful to many, audiences being what they are, but only referencing it offscreen just establishes the background fact. Oh so she is the queen of succubi, great let's move on.

You seem to react far, far more strongly than most because you zoom into the fact with the apparent intent to visualize it. It's as if you want to feel it so you could hate her for it. Well oops, the author didn't want to do that for a reason.

Simple scenario for audience reaction: Magnificent Bastard blows a planet off the galaxy offscreen. Dang he's a dangerous badass. Magnificent Bastard stabs a young girl on screen. MURDER. LYNCH THE SCUM.

Although, I suppose I should give you a leverage. It depends on the audience too. If it's otaku it can go like this: male has a previous girlfriend. Drama [/more for the harem]. Female love interest apparently has a previous boyfriend. BURN THE STUDIO.

So maybe that's what you're feeling. In which case feel free, I won't interrupt. Just try not to fill up this thread with the w-word.

Quote:
Oh yeah she can be dere dere one moment but it wont stop her from going to chasing every guy who has a penis attached to.

Not to mention that the hero doesnt have any special feelings towards her but the gratitude for giving him a daughter. Even back then when she conceived from him he was just caring about her without any other motives its just that she tricked him (thinking it was a dream) into sleeping with her.
Interpretations without clear evidence on either side for both. Who knows how faithful she will be if she really decides to pursue it with him? Who knows how he feels about her now (it wasn't made clear)?

Who knows if he'd actually care and cry NTR even if that's the case? This manga has demonstrated a remarkable ability to ignore certain "common moralities" in a light-hearted manner.

Quote:
And thats not double standarts. Double standarts would be saying that she was disgusting to rape a child and it would not be disgusting for hero to sleep with Rotte. But I am not saying that. I am saying that if it was ok for the queen to sleep with the child then it should be ok with hero sleeping with Rotte after all Rotte is not blood related to him. If FBI was not called back then and now you think its a good pairing then dont call FBI now, let them sleep and once she grows up more have a good pairing too.
First, I referenced the double standard because that's what we *all* have. You misinterpreted everything and went on a rant.

I see that a gentle link to TVTropes doesn't work. Okay, let's put it this way, this is probably how most people feels, at least when they're not overusing their brains:

Older female x young male = lucky bastard.
Older male x young female = rapist and tragic victim.

It's not fair in real life, rape is rape is rape. But this is fantasy, fiction, and one remarkably light-hearted at that. You're effectively alone here hating on the queen to that extent. Most people however would squick at Naoya x Lotte.
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Old 2011-04-11, 05:30   Link #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seiryuu View Post
I wonder a little bit about how a relationship with the queen would go. There's been a few spots where it seems to suggest that Naoya is quite... gifted. There's very few men out there who will make other men actually think "A HORSE!?" He might just be able to satisfy queeny on his own. Woudln't make any bets on it though.

One thing I've been wondering, could Naoya actually be Lotte's father? We know that Lotte and Asuha are the same age, which makes them twin sisters. And also, just like Asuha grew up believing that her mother died when she was little, Lotte grew up believing the exact same thing about her father. Combine the similarity of their stories with their twin status and it starts to look a little suspicious...
The size isn't anything. I am sure in her harem there are much better hung guys than him (remember he was called a horse by a kid who just saw a small member to compare it to). 3000 is not something you can diss just like that. Besides queen is veruy eager to add new men even after the soulful talk with Noya so I dont think he would be enough. He can be just 3001th guy in the line (though she treats him with more dere dere but thats what he would be. In fact I doubt its just 3000 anymore and harem probably grew at least by 40-50 since then).

No, that seems impossible because I think it was mentioned in the manga (cant remember where) that Lotte is a bit younger than Naoya's daughter meaning she came once the queen returned back to her own world. They are of the same age in number but Naoya's daughter is older. Besides you don't know if the pregnancy period is as long as with normal humans for succubus.

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Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
Most people however would squick at Naoya x Lotte. And why not? She's ten and he has a daughter her age.
Of whom he is older by just 12 years. Have seen worse than 12 year gap. Yes she is still a child but so was he when he had his own child. So isnt it fine? Particularly because as you say moral bounds are different in that world and Lotte is encouraged to start getting partners.

And lol do you seriously think that she hasnt slept with those 3000 men? Seriously? I mean she even does and is willing to do that with the guys who are not part of her harem, it comes as sure that she really had slept with them and probably not just once. Why to go for a new men-hunt when you have unexplored harem waiting for you? Most lilely she had her fun with her harem and those who got added were after her 'quality check'.

Succubus is a race closer to nymphomaniac as it comes, but considering that the Queen is known for being a nympho we can presume that not all succubus are nympho's or that the Queen's nymphomaniac level is above the usual ones for her to be famous for it.

Nymphomaniac is a disease. You should know it by now. Like alcoholism it cannot be cured by love and romance. And what is more queen doesnt seem to be willing to change either (as her best case of abstinence is screwing with her hermaphrodite guardian).

And no its not anger. I just really like using strong words in my speech.

Last edited by Darknemo2000; 2011-04-11 at 06:03.
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Old 2011-04-11, 05:42   Link #46
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Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
No, that seems impossible because I think it was mentioned in the manga (cant remember where) that Lotte is a bit younger than Naoya's daughter meaning she came once the queen returned back to her own world. They are of the same age in number but Naoya's daughter is older. Besides you don't know if the pregnancy period is as long as with normal humans for succubus.
In the manga, chapter 11, it was stated to be 6 months for succubus. So Asuha would be about 6 months older than Lotte.
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Old 2011-04-11, 05:58   Link #47
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interesting opinions there..

well i'm just hoping that the queen will change if she's exposed with Naoya more
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Old 2011-04-11, 06:02   Link #48
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interesting opinions there..

well i'm just hoping that the queen will change if she's exposed with Naoya more
So far 41 chapters passed. She gets pretty much no attention. In fact her best chapters are already translated (except for the flashback one).

It would be better to bet on other girls at this point. He interacts much more with them.
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Old 2011-04-11, 06:03   Link #49
Irenicus
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Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
Of whom he is older by just 12 years. Have seen worse than 12 year gap. Yes she is still a child but so was he when he had his own child. So isnt it fine? Particularly because as you say moral bounds are different in that world and Lotte is encouraged to start getting partners.
Way to go missing the point again. I keep repeating the audience part for a reason. It's not that moral bounds inside the world will be the problem (they were aiming for her to have a harem, yes), but that outside it we, the audience, me included, will just be squicked at the notion. You're fine, great, what a high lolicon tolerance.

The malleability inside the world just allows the author to do a lot of things without worrying about plausible reactions from other characters inside the story. What the audience feels about what happens is the different part.

Quote:
And lol do you seriously think that she hasnt slept with those 3000 men? Seriously?
Congratulations for missing the point, again.

Did you not read my post? I'm talking about the onscreen/offscreen dynamic. Horrific shit can happen offscreen and the audience Will. Not. Care. unless said audience makes it a point to focus on it and visualize it for themselves, as you apparently did for the little throwaway blurb about the queen here. Events onscreen matter much more to the average audience, I included. Tell the audience a guy blows up a planet, they'll just think about how powerful he must be. Show the audience how on that planet there are sympathetic little girls holding on to tattered teddy bears dreaming of the stars and how they were about to die from the guy's plans, the audience will hate, hate, hate him with deathly passion and woe betide if the author lets him get away with it.

So she slept with 3000 men, apparently. So she's the boss. I didn't see it happen, so I don't feel "eww, whore" or anything you're apparently feeling. I saw the deredere scene however and I was like, "aww."

Quote:
Nymphomaniac is a disease. You should know it be now. Like alcoholism it cannot be cured by love and romance. And what is more queen doesnt seem to be willing to change either (as her best case of abstinence is screwing with her hermaphrodite guardian).
The h-...? Look, she's a succubus, not a homo sapien nymphomaniac in need of psychological assistance.
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Old 2011-04-11, 06:05   Link #50
Darknemo2000
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Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
The h-...? Look, she's a succubus, not a homo sapien nymphomaniac in need of psychological assistance.
Even between succubuses she famous for being nymphomaniac. That alone should tell you everything.

Quote:
So she slept with 3000 men, apparently. So she's the boss. I didn't see it happen, so I don't feel "eww, whore" or anything you're apparently feeling. I saw the deredere scene however and I was like, "aww."
Well it seems i pay more attention to words, while you - to pictures.

Quote:
It's not that moral bounds inside the world will be the problem (they were aiming for her to have a harem, yes), but that outside it we, the audience, me included, will just be squicked at the notion. You're fine, great, what a high lolicon tolerance.
Are you so sure that the majority of audinece leans twords the queen? If we were to have a poll of pairings, then you could say like that but so far your opinion is based only on the few readers that comment on here.

Usually though polls lean to moe pairings even if they are small lolies.

And yeah I have high tolerance for it. Even Koi Kaze was fine with me though it was a really scandalous manga/anime.
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Old 2011-04-11, 13:56   Link #51
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Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
So far 41 chapters passed. She gets pretty much no attention. In fact her best chapters are already translated (except for the flashback one).

It would be better to bet on other girls at this point. He interacts much more with them.
I've only read up to the latest scans but if I were betting, I'd say either he doesn't end up with anyone or he ends up with the queen.

The series emphasizes comedy and the sexual gags. The fact that
Spoiler for spoiler:
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Old 2011-04-11, 14:03   Link #52
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I've only read up to the latest scans but if I were betting, I'd say either he doesn't end up with anyone or he ends up with the queen.

The series emphasizes comedy and the sexual gags. The fact that
Spoiler for spoiler:
Spoiler for Yeah, but:


Though the best bet is he still doenst end up with anyone as it is much more towards fanservice and comedy than romance.
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Old 2011-04-11, 15:05   Link #53
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Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
So she slept with 3000 men, apparently. So she's the boss. I didn't see it happen, so I don't feel "eww, whore" or anything you're apparently feeling. I saw the deredere scene however and I was like, "aww."
Well it seems i pay more attention to words, while you - to pictures.
Thank you guys for making my day... Nothing better that fans bashing each other That one reply was particularly funny While most people prefer to ignore statistics and pay most attention to the on-screen facts, there are certainly a few that can empathize with the army of "3000"

I can see Irenicus point but I have to agree with Darknemo in that the Queen is not heroine matterial in this case... The fact that she had sex in front of her daughter becomes a barrier from my point of view that will be extremely hard to overcome. And regarding the double standard thing... I would dislike both the gigolo and the slut in the same way... So yeah...

Older female x young male = rapist and tragic victim.

Older male x young female = rapist and tragic victim.

Despite the fact that Nahoya feels grateful now I can't imagine how strange/traumatic an experience (Boys have feelings and a psyque too that is not only a girl's privilege) for a 12 years old boy and how terrible the aftermatch when he found himself being a single parent at the age of 14-15

The manga's name is "Lotte no Omocha" so you can see who is the heroine So yeah... Nahoya would be considered a pedophile if he makes a pass on Lotte within the next... 7 years ... From the manga we know that Lotte will awaken as a succubus within the next 4 years, probably turning out very similar to her mother Or will die if she cannot overcome her aversion for men Unless someone, most likely Nahoya, does something... What he will do remains to be seen... The author doesn't seem to be in a hurry to reach that point so I will just limit myself to enjoy the story for the time being

In the end, I think that talking about morals in this story, particularly sexual ethics, is pointless... We have aggressors and possible aggressors... I'm pretty sure that the possible aggressor will become an "aggressor" in the end, the timeline will eventually lead to it... Even if there is an agreement from both parties involved, legally and morally he will be an aggressor, I will enjoy seeing fans bashing one another when the time comes

This kind of reminds me of Kōichi and Kaoru from Zettai Karen Children.. ten years age difference... I'd definitely hate the guts of that guy if he dares to make a pass on the girl... while she is underage... Yet they make a cute couple and we (the readers) know that he is not that type of guy... I can't wait for another time skip
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Old 2011-04-11, 15:23   Link #54
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I can see Irenicus point but I have to agree with Darknemo in that the Queen is not heroine matterial in this case... The fact that she had sex in front of her daughter becomes a barrier from my point of view that will be extremely hard to overcome. And regarding the double standard thing... I would dislike both the gigolo and the slut in the same way... So yeah...

Older female x young male = rapist and tragic victim.

Older male x young female = rapist and tragic victim.

Despite the fact that Nahoya feels grateful now I can't imagine how strange/traumatic an experience (Boys have feelings and a psyque too that is not only a girl's privilege) for a 12 years old boy and how terrible the aftermatch when he found himself being a single parent at the age of 14-15

The manga's name is "Lotte no Omocha" so you can see who is the heroine So yeah... Nahoya would be considered a pedophile if he makes a pass on Lotte within the next... 7 years ... From the manga we know that Lotte will awaken as a succubus within the next 4 years, probably turning out very similar to her mother Or will die if she cannot overcome her aversion for men Unless someone, most likely Nahoya, does something... What he will do remains to be seen... The author doesn't seem to be in a hurry to reach that point so I will just limit myself to enjoy the story for the time being
I surprise you can just disregard his intention/feelings and interpret in your way >.>, I should re-read the manga but I believe it was consensual if not love was present as show in chapter 15. In what circumstance are we outsiders allowed to call it victimizing when the person involves disagree, using law and technicality doesn't always bring about justice.

And, do you have a bias reasoning against older people? Age barrier is one thing but we don't always assume it is the older person who initiates the relationship, sometimes it is the opposite.

otherwise I agree with your last paragraph although I feel Nahoya is more of a father figure than a love interest as show, even his supposedly harem is more superficial.
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Old 2011-04-11, 15:47   Link #55
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Old 2011-04-11, 15:57   Link #56
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Old 2011-04-11, 15:57   Link #57
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I surprise you can just disregard his intention/feelings and interpret in your way >.>, I should re-read the manga but I believe it was consensual if not love was present as show in chapter 15. In what circumstance are we outsiders allowed to call it victimizing when the person involves disagree, using law and technicality doesn't always bring about justice.
You are right . I completely ignored their feelings and took matters the same way a computer with a logic algorithm would do: Black or White. And you pointed out the obvious conclusion: In most cases things are gray... But someone else was needed to point that.

I didn't want to put love in the scheme since they would probably throw the double standard thing at me... again... Like the trope Is not rape if you enjoyed it and all its possible variations, they could say that if there was love it was not a crime

In the end I like Nahoya and Lotte pairing over Nahoya and the Queen... You can call it male otaku sindrome
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Old 2011-04-11, 16:06   Link #58
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You are right . I completely ignored their feelings and took matters the same way a computer with a logic algorithm would do: Black or White. And you pointed out the obvious conclusion: In most cases things are gray... But someone else was needed to point that.

I didn't want to put love in the scheme since they would probably throw the double standard thing at me... again... Like the trope Is not rape if you enjoyed it and all its possible variations, they could say that if there was love it was not a crime

In the end I like Nahoya and Lotte pairing over Nahoya and the Queen... You can call it male otaku sindrome
hmmmm I can't tell if you're being cynical or honest. The life of online debating, in the end I tend to look at facts while acknowledging the intention of those involves, lol... and yes please don't bring that Tvtrope up since i somewhat disagree unless it was unanimous consented between both individual if one disagree it would be rape, meh second thought too messy to get involved. But otherwise there is room for debate... slack, leaving that argument when I'm in a bad mood lol.

Well I think it's fine to ship between any pairing, I don't have a preference but I somewhat sympathize with the Queen since somewhere I believe she hasn't or has experience love once with Naoya? (I need to check the original Kanji)
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Old 2011-04-11, 16:14   Link #59
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Old 2011-04-11, 16:19   Link #60
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You know if the queen returned as a challenger I think it would be a lot of fun.

I mean considering how many stories have the heroines being these perfect pure balls of sunshine just waiting for the MC.

Mixing that up with a character the furthest from that standard could make both the story and the reactions hilarious.

I mean, Maison Ikkoku didn't have the main heroine fully dedicated to the MC, and I loved it.
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