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Old 2010-02-23, 08:49   Link #61
Gin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narona View Post
What the ...

Oh well, people already replied, but still I am surprised that you didn't know how some eyes problems can now be treated using laser given the country where you live ^^;
Iīm sorry that Iīm not as educated in laser technology as you, but you donīt have to be so condescending. I have a life outside of the internet so I canīt just go online all day and research laser guns like you people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
There is something called affordability. Usually people of a certain level of income wouldn't bother about what is too expensive for them. Either that or the services are not widely advertised, or private entities of such service providers are not widely available.

It is considered cosmetic medicine you know.
Are you calling me poor? Iīm not poor, my dad has 2 BMWs (idk if you know what those are but they are really expensive cars)
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Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo View Post
Not quite the point of this thread. It's not just about beauty but general health tips as well. Not everyone wants to look pretty just to be seductive either. It's sometimes done for self-satisfaction.
Yeah, Iīm not trying to look pretty, I can already do that pretty easily lol. I just want to get pale so I can have the best Halloween costume this year.
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Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Well PKR or Lasik is considered cosmetic as people do admit looking ugly without glasses, but military personnel DO go for it in order to qualify for vocations such as SpecOps operators, snipers and pilots.
I canīt tell wether you are being serious here or not, if pilots and snipers had access to lasers, then why would they shoot them into their eyes instead of using them as weapons? I donīt know how the military works in your country, but I think if the American Army had lasers, we would use them on other people, not ourselves.
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Old 2010-02-23, 08:52   Link #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_luny View Post
still why the hell change your body, its what it is. stop messing with it, you've been put on this world with certain things and those are meant to strengthen you. but what do you do you let some dumbass cut your eyes open with a laser so you won't have to wear glasess or you changed something else.
as in stereotype, yeah i'm applying a stereotype. but i will silence for now for the words i want to use will offend people and i don't wan't another infraction, so have fun spending thousands of dollars on something pointless.
It's not a matter of completely changing and doing a 180 to your looks. It's about improving what you already have. And you have to have a lot of courage to call people who perform laser eye treatment, a medical procedure that has been researched for decades, idiots. It's your body and you're entitled to do as you want with it. If you want to change something, that's good. If you don't, that's also good. What's stupid is telling other people what's right and wrong for them. Their bodies aren't yours.

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Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Note : I mentioned widespreadness of advertising. It depends on the advertiser to bring the message out to people, from a marco level of marketing to the micro.

US does have its urban and rural areas too, where in rural areas, advertising is not as widespread (geography knowledge ) as the product sellers often attack the urban areas to generate greater revenue (Economics), ignoring the untapped potential of rural areas.
I lived in a rural city in Sicily for most of my life, yet I knew about laser treatment as well before I moved to bigger cities. Especially thanks to the internet, practically anyone who has access to it will be exposed to one form of advertising or another. Still, what you mention isn't exactly proving that not being able to afford something means not knowing about it in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Lastly, some people don't watch TV, like me. Even if they do, certain channels are not available in certain regions, in which the adverts running in certain places are not shown in others.
Like I said, internet is a powerful tool. You can be exposed to plenty of advertising there that you wouldn't even find on TV. And if you read the news, you can also be exposed to a lot of advertising.
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Old 2010-02-23, 09:05   Link #63
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Originally Posted by Gin View Post
IAre you calling me poor? Iīm not poor, my dad has 2 BMWs (idk if you know what those are but they are really expensive cars).
I am not insulting you. I am just pointing out something from a lecture I once had in Economics. Besides if I wanted to say that you are poor, I would have quoted you in my previous post instead of Narona. The reply isn't directed at you, but rather pointing out a perspective that she has missed.

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Originally Posted by Gin View Post
I canīt tell wether you are being serious here or not, if pilots and snipers had access to lasers, then why would they shoot them into their eyes instead of using them as weapons? I donīt know how the military works in your country, but I think if the American Army had lasers, we would use them on other people, not ourselves.
Why the heck should I joke when I am stating facts? Lasik is a process in which a lower intensity laser is used to slice the cornea, instead of a solid blade like in PKR.

Even if the enlisted, short-sighted guy knows nothing about Lasik but has an aptitude for an SOF operator, he would be recommended then briefed by a higher-up to go for the op.

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Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo View Post
I lived in a rural city in Sicily for most of my life, yet I knew about laser treatment as well before I moved to bigger cities. Especially thanks to the internet, practically anyone who has access to it will be exposed to one form of advertising or another. Still, what you mention isn't exactly proving that not being able to afford something means not knowing about it in the first place.

Like I said, internet is a powerful tool. You can be exposed to plenty of advertising there that you wouldn't even find on TV. And if you read the news, you can also be exposed to a lot of advertising.
I give up trying to explain marketing and how is it related private practice of medicine. No wonder the lecture that I sat in, the professor said that most of the students won't understand this module until the last few lectures because it is an incredibly messy subject, thanks to capitalism and the profit motive (i.e greed).
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Old 2010-02-23, 09:07   Link #64
Narona
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Originally Posted by Gin View Post
Iīm sorry that Iīm not as educated in laser technology as you, but you donīt have to be so condescending. I have a life outside of the internet so I canīt just go online all day and research laser guns like you people.
I apologize if I gave that impression. Just thought that it was really widely spread in the USA (commercial and such) since they are among the leaders (if not the leader) for those new treatments in comparison to France.

Guess I was wrong, sorry again if I sounded mean/condescending

[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
US does have its urban and rural areas too, where in rural areas, advertising is not as widespread (geography knowledge ) as the product sellers often attack the urban areas to generate greater revenue (Economics), ignoring the untapped potential of rural areas.

Also is the availability of technology within that area, as abovementioned, depends on where the private practitioners market it.
Next time I'll be more careful on talking about a country I do not know that well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_luny View Post
still why the hell change your body, its what it is. stop messing with it, you've been put on this world with certain things and those are meant to strengthen you. but what do you do you let some dumbass cut your eyes open with a laser so you won't have to wear glasess or you changed something else.
as in stereotype, yeah i'm applying a stereotype. but i will silence for now for the words i want to use will offend people and i don't wan't another infraction, so have fun spending thousands of dollars on something pointless.
Change my body?

It might shock you but I like the body that the nature gave me and I take care of it a lot. Sorry if I look self-centered.

I believe you DIT NOT read any of my posts in this thread, sigh.

Now about laser treatments for the eyes. I don't see what's wrong about it You prefer people to wear glasses while they could free themselves from it forever if they have the money? Because people would look at them as barbie doll? That's a joke right?
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Old 2010-02-23, 09:14   Link #65
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Originally Posted by Narona View Post
I apologize if I gave that impression. Just thought that it was really widely spread in the USA (commercial and such) since they are among the leaders (if not the leader) for those new treatments in comparison to France.

Guess I was wrong, sorry again if I sounded mean/condescending

Next time I'll be more careful on talking about a country I do not know that well.
Not your fault actually. It took me 3 years to figure out the exact flaws of a free-market system because I knew nothing about marketing psychology.

To look at the individual economies as a whole, you have to dig deep to find the shit hidden down there. Similarly, I doubt any company would loudly proclaim the losses they have made, but rather revise and reword it. This is how the Madoff scam is pulled off, consumers and readers, by and by large, don't suspect or realise anything until it is too late.

The reason why media influence is so effective is because not everyone has time to read, think or investigate deeper into every single advert or information stream they watch. The blame is on the pace of developed societies : we hardly have anytime to ourselves to do what we want or intend to.
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Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2010-02-23, 09:15   Link #66
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As someone who wear glasses, and has done so going back more than 8 years, the only "wrong" about laser treatment are, in my eyes (pun not intended), other people.

I have not personally experienced it, but other sources suggests it does produce the usual "Why not?" argument from certain individuals, implying that someone actually choosing to wear glasses and not go through with surgery (or even wear lenses) chooses to be "outside the social norm" and "ugly".
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Old 2010-02-23, 09:17   Link #67
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Originally Posted by AtomicoX View Post
As someone who wear glasses, and has done so going back more than 8 years, the only "wrong" about laser treatment are, in my eyes (pun not intended), other people.

I have not personally experienced it, but other sources suggests it does produce the usual "Why not?" argument from certain individuals, implying that someone actually choosing to wear glasses chooses to be "outside the social norm" and "ugly".
Don't you find glasses a hindrance? Heck I had so many problems with scopes and NV equipment in the army because I wear them! And not to mention rugby games.....I can't really enjoy it without my opponents tackling me to the ground and my glasses fly.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2010-02-23, 09:20   Link #68
Kafriel
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Quote:
I have not personally experienced it, but other sources suggests it does produce the usual "Why not?" argument from certain individuals, implying that someone actually choosing to wear glasses and not go through with surgery (or even wear lenses) chooses to be "outside the social norm" and "ugly".
Nearly all of the people I know choose to wear glasses instead of contacts, because they're used to seeing themselves with glasses, and others are used to that as well...
Quote:
Don't you find glasses a hindrance?
Not really, they're as much of a hindrance as wearing a watch or having a cellphone.
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Last edited by Kafriel; 2010-02-23 at 10:16.
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Old 2010-02-23, 09:22   Link #69
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Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Don't you find glasses a hindrance? Heck I had so many problems with scopes and NV equipment in the army because I wear them! And not to mention rugby games.....I can't really enjoy it without my opponents tackling me to the ground and my glasses fly.
At times, yes, they are a hindrance. I won't deny that. As I choose not to do military duty (additionally, I'm also colorblind, so military wasn't a choice in the first place) they aren't a hindrance there, but they are somewhat problematic when I ski or have to swim.

However, skiing is the only sport I enjoy and actually do (my stamina is worthless so anything involving running is out), and I have custom goggles for that occasion, so my glasses doesn't become a hindrance.

In everyday activities, I never notice them. As for lenses, well, I don't think I'd be able to handle poking around in my eyes.
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Old 2010-02-23, 09:27   Link #70
Narona
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Originally Posted by AtomicoX View Post
As someone who wear glasses, and has done so going back more than 8 years, the only "wrong" about laser treatment are, in my eyes (pun not intended), other people.

I have not personally experienced it, but other sources suggests it does produce the usual "Why not?" argument from certain individuals, implying that someone actually choosing to wear glasses and not go through with surgery (or even wear lenses) chooses to be "outside the social norm" and "ugly".
I see, but please, this thread is not about stereotypes. Those who believe that somebody who takes laser eyes treatment is a barbie doll are idiots. Those who believe that those who like to wear glasses are abnormal are idiots. Period.

Quote:
Not really, they're as much of a hindrance as wearing a watch or having a cellphone.
That depends on the person. I guess that for some (just a guess) it's not that fun and it is like having to take medecine pills everyday of a life because of a disease. The thing is that people should have the choice (if they have the money). There is nothing wrong in liking wearing glasses, but if the person is unhappy with it, then people should let them do what they want, especially if it means that this person will feel better. Feeling well usually means to live a better life.

Last edited by Narona; 2010-02-23 at 10:04.
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Old 2010-02-23, 09:36   Link #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narona View Post
That depends on the person. I guess that for some (just a guess) it's not that fun and it is like having to take medecine pills everyday of a life because of a disease. The thing is that people should have the choice (if they have the money). There is nothing wrong in liking wearing glasses, but if the person is unhappy with it, then people should let them do what they want, especially if it means that this person will feel better. Feeling well usually means to live a better life.
Indeed. I don't mind wearing glasses, and I've been wearing them for over 10 years. If I found them a hindrance in normal, day to day life, I'd think there was something wrong with me However, they can be a bit troubling for me when I practice martial arts. Until recently, I was practicing Bujinkan Budo, which involves a fair amount of grappling and groundwork, so it can be pretty difficult (and dangerous) to wear glasses in practice. Taking them off is also hard for me because I still have quite a lot of vision missing so it can make it hard for me to follow other people's movements.
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Old 2010-02-23, 10:01   Link #72
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Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo View Post
Indeed. I don't mind wearing glasses, and I've been wearing them for over 10 years. If I found them a hindrance in normal, day to day life, I'd think there was something wrong with me However, they can be a bit troubling for me when I practice martial arts. Until recently, I was practicing Bujinkan Budo, which involves a fair amount of grappling and groundwork, so it can be pretty difficult (and dangerous) to wear glasses in practice. Taking them off is also hard for me because I still have quite a lot of vision missing so it can make it hard for me to follow other people's movements.
Well, It's not really the topic of this thread, but it's in the same bag as teeth brace for example.

I believe there is a limit though (I won't argue about it because it's offtopic), but as long as what you do does not affect other people lives or body in a possible bad way, it's hard to argue about a person's choice about that
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Old 2010-02-23, 10:05   Link #73
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Originally Posted by Narona View Post
Well, It's not really the topic of this thread, but it's in the same bag as teeth brace for example.

I believe there is a limit though (I won't argue about it because it's offtopic), but as long as what you do does not affect other people lives or body in a possible bad way, it's hard to argue about a person's choice about that
Well, this thread's gone way off it's original purpose ever since Gin started posting here

And yes, that's most definitely the case. That's why I don't appreciate when people stereotype others who try to look good or care about their figure as superficial people who want to look like models or barbie dolls.
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Old 2010-02-23, 10:20   Link #74
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Please do note that when the title states "Beauty", it refers to beauty from an individual's perspective and not the way others view them, otherwise it would be called "fashion"...
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Old 2010-02-23, 10:23   Link #75
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Please do note that when the title states "Beauty", it refers to beauty from an individual's perspective and not the way others view them, otherwise it would be called "fashion"...
I thought fashion refers to clothing styles and apparael whereas beauty refers to the physical. When you speak about someone, you can say that they are fashionable when you think they dress very nicely, and people often refer to someone as beautiful if they are very pretty though not neccessarily meaning they dress nicely. I may be wrong, and probably because English isn't the first language I learned
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Old 2010-02-23, 10:27   Link #76
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Fashion can extend to haircut or shaving, I'm frequently told off (by my father) for growing a beard and mustache, some old-timers still grow their pinkie nails as a sign of long-forgotten badass, etc.
More on beauty in PMs so as to remain on topic~
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Old 2010-02-23, 13:07   Link #77
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There are other reasons someone may choose to go on with laser surgery such like as what Kafriel mentioned in his post, they may find it easier to save more money in case they lose their eyeglasses, some are also pressured to get laser surgery by their parents when they reach 21 (like me), and others just simply want to have NORMAL 20/20 vision(it's the natural normal grade of vision). It's not necessarily all about looks. There's actually a fancy trend where teens are into those thick-rimmed colorful eyeglasses and they don't look too bad for me at least but I don't have any of those. I'm already contented with my normal eyeglasses which I just use to read the notes on the whiteboard in class or when I watch a movie. I'm nearsighted
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Old 2010-02-24, 09:33   Link #78
Narona
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Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo View Post
I thought fashion refers to clothing styles
Clothing as a whole in Haute Couture Yup. As an italian you know that well

However, what Kafriel meant, I think, is "a new fashion" as "a new trend".

Quote:
Originally Posted by FragrantFlora View Post
There are other reasons someone may choose to go on with laser surgery such like as what Kafriel mentioned in his post, they may find it easier to save more money in case they lose their eyeglasses, some are also pressured to get laser surgery by their parents when they reach 21 (like me), and others just simply want to have NORMAL 20/20 vision(it's the natural normal grade of vision). It's not necessarily all about looks. There's actually a fancy trend where teens are into those thick-rimmed colorful eyeglasses and they don't look too bad for me at least but I don't have any of those. I'm already contented with my normal eyeglasses which I just use to read the notes on the whiteboard in class or when I watch a movie. I'm nearsighted
Saving money can be a reason since a person can see his eyes condition worsen despite wearing glasses. And having to pay for new glasses every few years can cost more than doing a laser surgery just once.

There are also the cases of the one with a very, very bad vision and wears big glasses. They suffer from it and it would be unfair to say to them that they should stay like that since it's really an handicap in their case.
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Old 2010-02-24, 09:43   Link #79
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Originally Posted by Narona View Post
Clothing as a whole in Haute Couture Yup. As an italian you know that well

However, what Kafriel meant, I think, is "a new fashion" as "a new trend".
Possibly. Because when someone mentions fashion, Haute Couture is the first thing that comes to mind.

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Originally Posted by Narona View Post
Saving money can be a reason since a person can see his eyes condition worsen despite wearing glasses. And having to pay for new glasses every few years can cost more than doing a laser surgery just once.
You know it. Sometimes, your eyes might even get better by themselves (though by a very small amount). That's what happened to me and I had to change lenses. Also, you may sometimes want to change spectacles and that can be quite expensive. In the long run, glasses do cost more. Ergo, one of the reasons I want to have surgery.

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Originally Posted by Narona View Post
There are also the cases of the one with a very, very bad vision and wears big glasses. They suffer from it and it would be unfair to say to them that they should stay like that since it's really an handicap in their case.
I'm really happy for you and immah let you finish, but Larry King has one of the best pair of glasses OF ALL TIME!!!
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Old 2010-02-24, 11:02   Link #80
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Originally Posted by Narona View Post
Saving money can be a reason since a person can see his eyes condition worsen despite wearing glasses. And having to pay for new glasses every few years can cost more than doing a laser surgery just once.

There are also the cases of the one with a very, very bad vision and wears big glasses. They suffer from it and it would be unfair to say to them that they should stay like that since it's really an handicap in their case.
Lasik is not for everyone. You have to go through an eye examination to determine your cornea's thickness and eye curvature. Deformed eyeballs increases chances of one failing the examination.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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