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Old 2010-02-26, 22:39   Link #21
0utf0xZer0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theowne View Post
I think this is a topic beyond the scope of this thread, and clearly yoroba is just talking about an extreme case. But in general, even in Canada, where multiculturalism is official policy, there has to be some sort of culture adaptation. I mean, otherwise, it's just "immigration for convenience", and I think that doesn't sit well with a lot of people, for obvious reasons. I immigrated here when I was younger, and my family as well as most of the people I know maintain a balance of their own culture and that of the broader environment. We realize that in many ways, it's a compromise, one that we accepted when we came here.
What we really need to know is what specifically these people would have had to have done to be considered sufficiently Americanized.

BTW, I wouldn't assume that Canadian attitudes towards immigrants are any different from what you find in some of the more diverse and liberal US cities (ie. Seattle). According to one of my political science profs, part of the reason multiculturalism here official policy here was because it provided a third answer to the question of whether Canada has one culture or two.
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Old 2010-02-26, 22:45   Link #22
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I think the main thing was to throw away a lot of nationalistic pride towards other nations. Not possible for many of us, since a good deal of students are dual citizens. Like, my friend who is Australian and American in terms of his nationality. He is treated normally until he's seen showing pride to Australia, and then he starts getting called a convict and a criminal and is somewhat shunned until he goes back into "America mode."

I also found that in general it's more lax to the exchange students so long as they show strong affection towards America. I'm not too sure myself on this to be perfectly honest. This obviously isn't the only thing, but I think that's the biggest thing. Like, during big sporting events (USA v. Canada last week for example), I find it easiest to be accepted since I'd root for the US. I can understand why you would want the American to like America, and I do and I love this nation, but I also love other nations. And they think that's wrong.
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Old 2010-02-26, 22:46   Link #23
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The "idea" in both Canada and the US -- is that one keeps the best of the culture they left behind and integrates it into the morphing culture of US/Canada. One of the *best* things about Canada and the US is all the cultural heritage celebrations and festivals. In one week, I can attend an Irish party, a Japanese festival, an Ethopian street arts fair, etc. My own house is an amalgam of Irish, Japanese, and Norse themes.

What yoroba describes sounds to me like an extreme case of "clique" in-crowd/out-crowd behavior enforcement that isn't even really "American" (or Canadian) in nature.
Its more "Lord of the Flies" human baser group behavior.
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Old 2010-02-26, 23:30   Link #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harufox View Post
Probably another random post of mine, but for some reason, I just had to...

You see, I attend a public high school, and its not far from what the imagination pulls. The tough guys that rule the roost, the girls that just don't seem to care, and me and my friends who struggle to survive in an environment that's just as uninviting as a funeral.

The social ladder thing pisses me off too. I think its a good thing that me and my friends consider ourselves far from it. The cool kids at the top, the nerds at the bottom, and us....somewhere on the side.

I'm thinking of gathering opinions from students of all sorts. From public to private, from primary (elementary) to Uni, from the bottom of the food chain to the gods of the school. Just what's it like being where you are, and how do you do it?
Hmm, my experience is probably a little out of the ordinary, as I went to a small french private school for expats and internationals, from elementary to high school. Classes were small (10-25), and there was only one of each. So overall the student body was quite small, about 200 IIRC (kindergarten to high school). Students were either French expats or internationals, non-French Internationals (generally in the boarding section) learning french or french speaking, and local french speaking Swiss. Basically everyone was kind of a stranger as they arrived there, yet everybody was linked by the french language (to very varying degrees); so I never noticed any cultural problems, despite a very international panel of student, spanning way out of the traditional Francophonie.

I did not notice sizable clique, but maybe that has to do with the sizes of the classes (everybody would know the full names of their classmates at least), or maybe the setting: school held by nuns with ordinary peoples kids along with (I learned later) children from horribly rich families and aristocrats. The only division that one could notice, without any hierarchy, was mostly a basic behavioral one:
-group of "quiet" girl friends (chatting separately, top students, little interactions safe from cordial with everybody).
-group of "active" girl friends (chatting and socializing separately, some airheads, some hardworking, archetypal interactions with the group of active boys, teasing occasionally the quiet boys).
-group of "active" boy friends (chatting and socializing together, some average, some muscle boys, some hardworking, archetypal interactions with the group of active girls, would often try to drag along the quiet boys).
-"quiet" boys (more solitary, top students, cordial with everyone, sometime friendly with other boys, sometime unfriendly with the active girls).

I think the limited size of the pool, as well as it's particular nature, precluded division into more tribes (or maybe those simply didn't exist at the time, as it was about a decade ago).

Regarding myself, I was quite The Nerd, but the school famous bookworm kind (like you hardly know anybody outside your class, yet everybody in the school knows you). Elementary School was quite ordinary: what I suppose were normal interactions with others (my best pal at the time was an american student), I didn't stood out too much as foreign languages impeded my light year advance in other fields. Middle School was the most boring period in my life, don't remember a thing safe for occasionally throwing a tantrum. But High School was a bit more fun as I indulged into some competition, debated in class, and had some great class cooperation for the final exam (which is a big thing in the french system, especially for us as we had to go on 3days trips all together at the end of each year, just to go take the exams).

Uni was vastly different, especially since at first I took Engineering in a very marginal field: I was much a loner there, lost among mostly computer geeks (I'm rather a bookworm), which all had studied in a different school system, and were speaking a different "language".
As I switched to Natural Sciences, I entered a much more balanced social landscape (first of all, more girls ), there I maintained cordial if not friendly interactions, competition being absent in our small field, which actually requires a lot of cooperation (on the student level).
In the Uni I am, I cannot distinguish any form of social ladder. As naturally the different categories of students will either:
-not make it into the uni or college
-naturally join the faculty they relate the most with
-or regroup in their hobbies
Instead you'll rather whole faculties, institutes or groups have rivalries or simply ignoring each others (like posh economy students and left/anarcho/eco activists for example).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
What yoroba describes sounds to me like an extreme case of "clique" in-crowd/out-crowd behavior enforcement that isn't even really "American" (or Canadian) in nature.
Its more "Lord of the Flies" human baser group behavior.
Yeah that pretty nails it (High School stereotypes not being restricted to American culture), although my personal experience was out of the field.
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Old 2010-02-27, 00:20   Link #25
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My school didn't really have those kinds of stereotypes like nerds, geeks, athletes, the pretty girls or anything. But now that I look back at it, I can pretty much place someone I recall into one of those categories.

I can say that I'm just pretty much an average girl. I just joined some clubs and even participated in programs singing, dancing, or doing both. I got pretty popular since some boring programs had intermission numbers and that's where we came in. But I never really liked dancing though. I was better in vocals but I didn't join choir. I knew some of the more popular and well-known students. I joined the science and reading club but it somehow floated away from me. I didn't have time for em. I tried out for cheerleading without any background on gymnastics. I got in surprisingly But I quit. I couldn't handle all the rigorous training and my muscles ached so much. After 2 weeks I quit. Not only that, I had a few fellow cheerleaders who felt like they were better than everyone else. And they started really weird rumors about me and some other cheerleaders. I just let it go though.

My grades were pretty average but I think my brain power was deteriorating as I got older I'm still struggling with some of my grades. I joined the video game club and alot of people there were really surprised as in shocked I was into video games and that I knew so much. I can recall some weird guy going "Wow Candice never thought you'd drop down to our level." I felt pretty embarrassed after that but I said that video games were one of my favorite hobbies. I was also part of the Christian group in the school.

I can't really place myself in any stereotypes asides from average. I'll pretty much let someone else do it for me
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Old 2010-02-27, 00:33   Link #26
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I guess we've got quite a few stories here. Like I said, me and my group are not considered past of the social thing. We are normally left alone by what we consider that group of "troublesome kids".

So to the freshman who waved the $50 note at me on Wednesday and told me to "eff off", gee, thanks...that gives me a very reassuring picture of what you'll act like next year when you're doing the year level I'm doing now.
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Old 2010-02-27, 00:50   Link #27
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To answer to the OP:
During nursery we were all friends, no discrimination there.
During elementary school, it was boys VS girls, until I had to move to another school, where I spent the worst time of my life.
During junior high, I met up with my old friends from elementary school, some of the people from the second school I had gone to came along as well...they didn't last long.
During high school, we got a few transfer bullies, but they were obvious losers and nobody gave a dime about them.

Now, we did have athletes, nerds, emo girls, etc. but it didn't really matter; me, a nerd, was best friends with the most popular guy and athlete, a half-giant bodyguard dude, another nerd and a normal person. So, while we could see some things in ourselves, we didn't bother role-playing movie schools, whoever did that stuff was just laughed at.
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Old 2010-02-27, 11:29   Link #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harufox View Post
Probably another random post of mine, but for some reason, I just had to...

You see, I attend a public high school, and its not far from what the imagination pulls. The tough guys that rule the roost, the girls that just don't seem to care, and me and my friends who struggle to survive in an environment that's just as uninviting as a funeral.

The social ladder thing pisses me off too. I think its a good thing that me and my friends consider ourselves far from it. The cool kids at the top, the nerds at the bottom, and us....somewhere on the side.

I'm thinking of gathering opinions from students of all sorts. From public to private, from primary (elementary) to Uni, from the bottom of the food chain to the gods of the school. Just what's it like being where you are, and how do you do it?

Start doing drugs, then people will think you are cool. It worked for me
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Old 2010-02-27, 12:59   Link #29
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Ahhh... High School. Well, the culture of most students are snobbish since most of the students are from a high class although there are middle class people like myself. Because of some people being rich and all, they seem to do drugs such as alcohol and smoke. The most popular people tends to be the usual. The athletes (or jocks), cool people or the upper class students and the school isn't diverse at all. Usually, I get bullied by a small amount of them.

Not to mention, most of the mentioned groups either have a relationship with another boy/girl.

However, I'm glad that college isn't like that because they are more diverse, you have more freedom and you don't see them in every class.
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Old 2010-02-27, 13:02   Link #30
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I was always open about liking video games and anime... of course it was also public knowledge that I was a boxer, powerlifter, and strongest kid in my high school... Can't say I never got into any altercations in high school but the outcomes of said altercations deterred any more troublemakers .
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Old 2010-02-27, 13:18   Link #31
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gin View Post
Start doing drugs, then people will think you are cool. It worked for me
Some people will... others will think you're a bleeping idiot Which ones are worth more to impress?

Kind of depends on your life goals and what you want to do...
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Old 2010-02-27, 15:17   Link #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gin View Post
Start doing drugs, then people will think you are cool. It worked for me
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Some people will... others will think you're a bleeping idiot Which ones are worth more to impress?

Kind of depends on your life goals and what you want to do...
Yeah, I kinda thought short of going that far. Besides, I think that it pushes those problem people further away from me.

Taking drugs would also make me a hypocrite, as I don't think highly of anyone who does anyway.
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Old 2010-02-27, 17:10   Link #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harufox
Taking drugs would also make me a hypocrite, as I don't think highly of anyone who does anyway.
As it should be. Regular high school is filled with immature, childish people. Once you get to university, the average intelligence of your classmates and schoolmates goes up, and doing drugs, or being a jock, much fewer people consider this impressive in any way. As for the people who do....you will probably rarely interact with them anyways.
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Old 2010-02-27, 17:53   Link #34
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Eh? My high school life wasn't like that...

Yes there were "smart" kids and "cool" kids, but the two groups weren't mutually exclusive. In a sense, it was "cool" to be smart, "cool" to be musical, and the cheerleader-type girls fawned over a certain "piano prince" with stylish hair who, for the record, is now studying international relations at Harvard.

Most people were like me though... average student who went to class, ate lunch with friends, did music or sports, did homework, pulled a few all-nighters before exams, got a girlfriend at one point, broke up with girlfriend, got into college... and never even thought or heard of "cliques" along the way *shrug*
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Old 2010-02-27, 18:12   Link #35
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Originally Posted by Yukinokesshou View Post
Eh? My high school life wasn't like that...

Yes there were "smart" kids and "cool" kids, but the two groups weren't mutually exclusive. In a sense, it was "cool" to be smart, "cool" to be musical, and the cheerleader-type girls fawned over a certain "piano prince" with stylish hair who, for the record, is now studying international relations at Harvard.

Most people were like me though... average student who went to class, ate lunch with friends, did music or sports, did homework, pulled a few all-nighters before exams, got a girlfriend at one point, broke up with girlfriend, got into college... and never even thought or heard of "cliques" along the way *shrug*
I'm guessing you went to school in an asian country? If not do tell us where you went to school. o_O

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Old 2010-02-27, 18:16   Link #36
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I'm guessing you went to school in an asian country? If not do tell us where you went to school. o_O

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Hahaha, I've been to school all over the world. I'm studying medicine in the UK right now. But what I wrote above refers (surprisingly?) to my time in the
United States of America...

... in a school that was 70% Asian
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Old 2010-02-27, 18:30   Link #37
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As it should be. Regular high school is filled with immature, childish people. Once you get to university, the average intelligence of your classmates and schoolmates goes up, and doing drugs, or being a jock, much fewer people consider this impressive in any way. As for the people who do....you will probably rarely interact with them anyways.
Heh! We used to call them "one year wonders".... one semester to go probation, second semester to get kicked out.
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Old 2010-02-27, 18:37   Link #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukinokesshou View Post
Eh? My high school life wasn't like that...
Well of course all high schools aren't like that...but when you live in the big city, the quality of schools that are even very near each other vary a lot. Some schools have higher academic expectations, some don't. I went to two high schools in Toronto, Ontario, the levels of expected achievement or clique-ness varies a lot. The first school I chose primarily for convenient location, bad decision on my part =/
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Old 2010-02-27, 18:46   Link #39
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I was in a "Mini School" program in high school that basically consisted of regular schoolwork, plus three outdoor education trips a year, plus a yearly drama production, plus a science fair/medieval fair thing.
You had to interview for it in elementary school, and the kids in the program came from all groups and cliques, but they all excelled. Every year, the top "you-name-it" came from the Mini School. Top student, mini school. Top athlete, mini school. Top theatre student, mini school. Student council president/vice president/treasurer, mini school.

And after spending 5 years in classes with the same people, you get pretty tight with em.
So, my high school experience was pretty no-clique/all-cliques-at-once, through my ties with what was pretty much a very powerful group of ~30 students.
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Old 2010-02-27, 18:49   Link #40
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Well of course all high schools aren't like that...but when you live in the big city, the quality of schools that are even very near each other vary a lot. Some schools have higher academic expectations, some don't. I went to two high schools in Toronto, Ontario, the levels of expected achievement or clique-ness varies a lot. The first school I chose primarily for convenient location, bad decision on my part =/
True. Is your second high school by any chance Upper Canada College or UTS?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theowne View Post
As it should be. Regular high school is filled with immature, childish people. Once you get to university, the average intelligence of your classmates and schoolmates goes up, and doing drugs, or being a jock, much fewer people consider this impressive in any way. As for the people who do....you will probably rarely interact with them anyways.
Actually, I didn't have classmates who did drugs (to the best of my knowledge) until I entered medical school. Some academic high flyers too o_O
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