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Old 2011-01-15, 13:10   Link #241
TinyRedLeaf
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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Age: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
My personal reactions were completely different from TRL's. I am searching my mind to find an anime I thought this good, after one episode, in the past 2-3 years.
Cross Game hooked me from the very first episode. I'm blanking this out because I don't feel like gushing over an anime that has more than enough supporters. : p

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
To reject the show because it doesn't match the normal reality we live seems a shame, as well as unfair. Animes create their own worlds, and we usually have to suspend our disbelief to let them work their magic.
I well understand the concern and have indeed argued the case more than once, but I think you misunderstand my point: I don't begrudge the aesthetic quality of the episode, but I am saying that the story completely fails to grip me, simply because I've long since moved on from examining such issues from this particular perspective.

I wholeheartedly accept that the show, as it stands for now, is nice and all. It's very warm and fluffy, but I'm no longer looking for fluffy, at least not when we're dealing with a potentially weighty topic.

In short, it's me, not the anime. And I would definitely love it a lot more if it were just a little bit darker.
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Old 2011-01-15, 13:20   Link #242
frubam
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I'm going to have to agree that skipping literally TWO years of the characters' development wasn't the best idea. I think that they really should have started from the beginning, like they did Aoi Hana, though I've heard it did pretty bad in sales (>.>).

Aside from that, the episode was wonderful. The voice for Shuu was slightly stiff at the really emotional moments, but other than that, it did a great job.
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Old 2011-01-15, 13:39   Link #243
Kaoru Chujo
Minase Inori
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
...I wholeheartedly accept that the show, as it stands for now, is nice and all. It's very warm and fluffy, but I'm no longer looking for fluffy, at least not when we're dealing with a potentially weighty topic.

In short, it's me, not the anime. And I would definitely love it a lot more if it were just a little bit darker.
Your points are well taken, but I definitely do not see this show as "warm and fluffy" as opposed to "weighty." I think human emotions are weightier than mere intellectual issues. To imitate your slightly offensive statement (not that I'm blaming you at all), maybe I see myself as having gone not just beyond fluffy, but beyond weighty, too, lol.

As for Cross Game (select TRL's post to see comment), up to 25 or so episodes, it still hasn't hooked me. It always seems like shallow shounen stuff to me. I know what the emotions are supposed to be, but I still can't feel them. I really must give it even more of a chance, considering how many people I otherwise agree with rate it so highly. I will start up again at the twenty-somethingth episode when I get home from the trip I'm on.
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As for whether starting at the beginning would have been a good idea, I think Aoi Hana and Kuragehime both show the problems of taking that approach: you run the risk of not getting to a satisfying ending.
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characters/seiyuus: | Mahouka Koukou | Glasslip | Tokyo Ghoul | Sailor Moon Crystal | Locodol | Ao Haru Ride | Hanayamata | Aldnoah.Zero | Nozaki-kun | Magimoji Rurumo | Zankyou no Terror | Tokyo ESP | Rokujouma no Shinryakusha | Love Stage!! | Jinsei | Rail Wars | Blade Dance | Himegoto
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Old 2011-01-15, 13:49   Link #244
Guardian Enzo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
A friend of mine still complains to this day of the fact that Bombadil got the shaft..
That was the work of Sauron. I see no other explanation as to why Jackson would do something so stupid.

I'm certainly one of those LOTR readers who was acutely aware of the changes Jackson made - but I guess it's a baby with the bath water thing for me. I respect that Jackson had to make some difficult choices and though I didn't always agree with them, I think he generally did a good job. He struck a balance between his first responsibility - making movies that would be enjoyably for someone who had never read the books - and keeping enough of the essence of the books to please most of the readers. That's a good adaptation in my book.

Back to HM, I definitely didn't see that episode as "warm and fuzzy" by any stretch. Kaoru spoke of the "chest tightening" reaction and I had it too - the pain and unhappiness of the main characters (especially Shu) was more than obvious and my heart was aching for him from the beginning. But we all react differently to these things.
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Old 2011-01-15, 14:34   Link #245
Reckoner
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I'm not quite sure why people are complaining that the series hasn't been "serious" enough yet about transgender issues after only 1 episode aired. They still still have about 10-12 episodes to make further development you know.

Personally I thought this episode was more about communicating the emotions of the characters and their current situation rather than immediately thrusting the drama onto them that I'm sure will inevitably come.
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Old 2011-01-15, 15:14   Link #246
Shiroth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Personally I thought this episode was more about communicating the emotions of the characters and their current situation rather than immediately thrusting the drama onto them that I'm sure will inevitably come.
Basically yeah. This is the start of the high school story, and showing where the main three characters stand at this time was the purpose of the episode. I'm glad an anime only watcher is able to understand that without the first 33 chapters.
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Old 2011-01-15, 17:45   Link #247
Simon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
I wholeheartedly accept that the show, as it stands for now, is nice and all. It's very warm and fluffy, but I'm no longer looking for fluffy, at least not when we're dealing with a potentially weighty topic.
With respect, I think you're being far too quick to write this anime off as lacking substance. It's true that the first episode was very pretty and only hinted at the emotional turmoil the characters may be feeling, but already those hints take it way beyond the fluffy "trap" anime of the past few years. Personally I think this sort of light touch makes the show even more effective, because it invites the viewer to put themselves in the characters' shoes and imagine their situation - that's the point I was making earlier about Shū's sister Maho, that even without knowing anything more about her than what we saw on screen we can imagine how difficult it must be for any girl to find her brother wearing her clothes.

Spoiler for Drifting off-topic:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
Observing and understanding are different things entirely. For example, these events:

[snip]
I'm sort of half-way between those who've read the manga and those who haven't - even with a dictionary I can only half-follow the Japanese, and I've avoided the scanlations on principle. But I disagree with the notion that we need to understand the background to those examples after just one episode. Imagine that there was no manga and we had absolutely nothing to go on other than the 22 minutes we've seen: would we be posting here saying "that made no sense, I'm going to drop the show", or would the thread be full of speculation about the significance of the people and conversations? It's not hard to think of successful anime whose first episodes left a considerably greater "WTF?" in their wake.

If you want the manga, you know where to find it.
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Old 2011-01-15, 19:31   Link #248
desirebluesky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frubam View Post
I'm going to have to agree that skipping literally TWO years of the characters' development wasn't the best idea. I think that they really should have started from the beginning, like they did Aoi Hana, though I've heard it did pretty bad in sales (>.>).
seconded. also i think it's confusing for anime-only watchers, though i read the manga first so what do i know.

well i loved the show anyway, though i somehow failed to realise it doesn't start from beggining untill the ending credits. i was WTFing at the action the whole time, than my brain randomly conected anime scenes with their manga counterparts and made me go "OHHHH I SEE."

also, it gotta be one of the prettiest shows i've ever seen. love the watercolor-like coloring.
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Old 2011-01-15, 20:04   Link #249
Guardian Enzo
Seishu's Ace
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kagurazaka, Tokyo
Summary of last four pages:

Anime-only viewers: "Wow - that was great!"
Manga readers: "No it wasn't."
Anime-only viewers: "What?"
Manga readers: "It confusing - you couldn't follow it at all."
Anime-only viewers: "But - yes, I could. It was beautiful! Nitori was-"
Manga readers:"You're wrong. You were confused."
Anime-only viewers: "But I really liked it. I thought Yoshino-"
Manga readers: "No, you didn't."


Actual events may have been embellished for dramatic effect.

Last edited by Guardian Enzo; 2011-01-15 at 20:59. Reason: That "Freezing" comment was out of line...
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Old 2011-01-15, 20:07   Link #250
Shiroth
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^We manga readers aren't acting that way at all, so yes i'm a bit offended by that.
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Old 2011-01-15, 20:26   Link #251
Guardian Enzo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiroth View Post
^We manga readers aren't acting that way at all, so yes i'm a bit offended by that.
No offense intended - that was a jest on my part I promise you. An embellishment for dramatic purposes (especially the Freezing part). I just find humor in the discussion - the anime-only viewers and the manga readers seem to be on different planets when talking about that episode.
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Old 2011-01-15, 21:25   Link #252
Simon
気持ち悪い
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: New Zealand
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiroth View Post
^We manga readers aren't acting that way at all, so yes i'm a bit offended by that.
Don't take it personally, it never hurts any of us to have a laugh at ourselves

If I sound a bit defensive of the adaptation, it's because I consider it nothing short of miraculous that the story made it into anime at all - let alone in such high-quality form. When you think about how the Japanese market is polarised between families buying Chibi Maruko-chan and the 2ch boys fapping over Loli of the Month, noitaminA deserve a huge amount of praise for taking this show on.

Sure it would be wonderful if they could have adapted the entire story. But realistically that was never going to happen. And it's not like AIC skipped stuff for the hell of it, or because they thought they know better than the mangaka - they've made some tough decisions to fit the very tight constraints they have to work in. So rather than criticise them for what they haven't done, I'd rather appreciate what they have.

Right now the most constructive thing manga readers can do is help answer the questions any anime-only folk might have (in a non-spoilerish way of course). The more people we can encourage to watch the show, the more who might buy the DVDs and other merchandise - and maybe, just maybe, if sales are good enough someone might decide it's viable to fund an OVA of the back-story
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Old 2011-01-16, 06:12   Link #253
Kanon
Kana Hanazawa ♥
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
Summary of last four pages:

Anime-only viewers: "Wow - that was great!"
Manga readers: "No it wasn't."
Anime-only viewers: "What?"
Manga readers: "It confusing - you couldn't follow it at all."
Anime-only viewers: "But - yes, I could. It was beautiful! Nitori was-"
Manga readers:"You're wrong. You were confused."
Anime-only viewers: "But I really liked it. I thought Yoshino-"
Manga readers: "No, you didn't."


Actual events may have been embellished for dramatic effect.
As an anime-only viewer, I'm also a bit offended by this because you're dead wrong. A fair amount of anime-only viewers including myself stated the first episode was difficult to follow. I didn't even know they had cut the first 33 chapters prior to watching the episode, yet I felt while watching it that a huge chunk of the story was missing. Why did I feel that way? Because the anime clearly assumes the viewers are familiar with the characters and the setting, and made now effort WHATSOEVER to introduce them to us.

Just like TinyRedLeaf, this is the kind of show I would usually absolutely love, and while I enjoyed this first episode immensenly, I still felt I couldn't enjoy it as much as I should have. It was very frustating to watch the events of this epsiode unfold in a way that left me on the sidelines. All I could do was try to make sense of what was happening and connect the dots, instead of getting emotionally involved. As of now, I don't know anything about the two main characters, other than they crossdress, and that they apparently got a lot of people to accept it (how?). Hard to relate to their hardships.

If the next episodes are more anime viewers friendly, then it's fine. However, if they keep the story moving without explaining anything about what happened earlier to us, we're gonna have a problem.
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Old 2011-01-16, 06:59   Link #254
karice67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
As an anime-only viewer, I'm also a bit offended by this because you're dead wrong. A fair amount of anime-only viewers including myself stated the first episode was difficult to follow. *snip*
And I'm going to join the few(?) who disagree. I've also come to this without reading the manga - knowing only that there were a couple of adolescents who seem to be quite uncomfortable with their gender identity - and I'm quite happy with what I got out of this first episode.

Admittedly, the first time I watched it, I missed quite a few things. Since I was relying on the subs too much, and wasn't quite able to distinguish between the two lead voices yet, I was also a little confused as to the confession scene. But a second watch solved that (I caught the "watashi" and "boku" that time round) - I did take a quick look here, but am pretty sure it wouldn't have mattered either way.

Furthermore, the dialogue revealed subtle hints to things that the manga readers are talking about (e.g. Yuki). Personally, I'd prefer it if you had all revealed a bit less that what you did, and would avoid spoiling those 33 skipped chapters from here on. I'm going to try saving the manga until after the anime has finished its run, but well, if spoilers keep appearing, I guess I'll avoid this thread too.
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Old 2011-01-16, 07:01   Link #255
CWW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
A fair amount of anime-only viewers including myself stated the first episode was difficult to follow.
Yeah, kind of weird that you glossed over that. The scene at the school grounds was especially hard to follow. Who are these people and how do they know each other? Why does that girl want to take a picture together with that boy? Why does the boy she waved off know she's trained by a professional model and how is it relevant? Sure, it's explained later, but it doesn't mean it wasn't hard to follow.

Even then at the scene in his house, you see the girl again with another girl. What were they doing in his room? They then leave without further explanation. They only mentioned she's his sister (not in English though) when they had a fight and later on that they share the room together. Sure, you could have surmised that when she said "Come on, Dad." when they took the picture (even though you couldn't actually hear the word dad in Japanese) and when Nitori said off screen "My dad wanted to take a picture." in the school assembly (which you had to recognize the voice for), but man, as a first time viewer on one pays attention to a detail that subtle.

The scene with Yoshino and the lady raised questions as well. I thought she was her mother at first, but then she said she met Yoshino in the past. Then she said she was envious that Yoshino had a friend who understood her. Does that mean she is crossdressing as well?

I'm not saying they should reveal everything and explain to you point blank, but it was definitely bewildering.

Last edited by CWW; 2011-01-16 at 07:11.
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Old 2011-01-16, 08:27   Link #256
Kanon
Kana Hanazawa ♥
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karice67 View Post
And I'm going to join the few(?) who disagree. I've also come to this without reading the manga - knowing only that there were a couple of adolescents who seem to be quite uncomfortable with their gender identity - and I'm quite happy with what I got out of this first episode.
I'm not sure who's in the minority here. It's hard to tell. Either way, all I was trying to point out is that there are anime watchers that felt the first episode was confusing without being influenced by manga readers.

It was by no means impossible to understand -- but it was still quite a bit confusing for people who aren't acquainted at all with the manga like me. Furthermore, I really hate feeling like I've missed something.

Ah well, I think it's a bit pointless to argue about this right now. For all we know, future episodes will be riddled with flashbacks (that kind of storytelling could be interesting). I'll just wait and see. If worst comes to worst, I'll just have to read the chapters I missed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
A friend of mine still complains to this day of the fact that Bombadil got the shaft...

Anyway requesting an avatar of Nitorin fixing his collar at 0:22 please.
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Old 2011-01-16, 08:43   Link #257
MeoTwister5
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Thanks. I'd rep you but I owe rep to other people first apparently.
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Old 2011-01-16, 09:18   Link #258
darry
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Well if you miss the 2Years just go and read the Manga, should be easy and you dont feel like you missed so much
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Old 2011-01-16, 11:25   Link #259
Vanish
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Honestly I had to watch the first episode twice to fully grasp on everything, like who's who and what's their situations and such. Aside from that, I think the setting is beautiful so far, and moreover connectible to real life situations. Without further indications, I understand Shu's pain really well.
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Old 2011-01-16, 11:51   Link #260
Kaoru Chujo
Minase Inori
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Someone has already done great work finding the real-life locations of scenes in the anime. Pics from Google Street View. The green link above each image is the scene from the show.

Here they are on a Google Map. In Tokyo.
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MINASE Inori 水瀬いのり age 18. 2010 Occult Academy (Akari). 2011 Uta no Prince-sama 1000% (students). 2012 Nukko (Sumire), Symphogear (minor roles). 2013 Love Lab (Suzu), Super Seisyun Brothers (Kohara Shiyo). 2014 Robot Girls Z (Gre-chan), Nobunaga The Fool (Chibihane, Toku), Black Bullet (Mibu), Is the order a rabbit? (Chino), Sugar Soldier (Kisaragi Makoto), Gargantia OVA (Rima), Locodol (Mirai), Aldnoah.Zero (Eddelrittuo), Sora no Method (Noel).
Hashihime blog | Twitter @nakanokimi | summer 2014 previews | summer 2014 schedule |
characters/seiyuus: | Mahouka Koukou | Glasslip | Tokyo Ghoul | Sailor Moon Crystal | Locodol | Ao Haru Ride | Hanayamata | Aldnoah.Zero | Nozaki-kun | Magimoji Rurumo | Zankyou no Terror | Tokyo ESP | Rokujouma no Shinryakusha | Love Stage!! | Jinsei | Rail Wars | Blade Dance | Himegoto

Last edited by Kaoru Chujo; 2011-01-16 at 12:12.
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