AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Amagami SS

Notices

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 2010-10-22, 04:41   Link #101
Mentar
Sore wa himitsu desu!
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 44
Since the manga is completed, we don't need to use spoiler tags. Whoever comes here knows that he may be spoiled.

The point Used Can is making (and rightfully so) is that there are no merely 2 faces of Ayatsuji. She's a very multifaceted character
Mentar is offline  
Old 2010-10-22, 05:00   Link #102
Kusa-San
I'll end it before April.
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post

The point Used Can is making (and rightfully so) is that there are no merely 2 faces of Ayatsuji. She's a very multifaceted character
I have explained why I'm not agreed so can you do the same ? Only saying that's not true is not really convincing....

And I'm not saying that she's not a multifaced character, I'm saying that the personnality she shows at school is not her trueself !
Kusa-San is offline  
Old 2010-10-22, 05:51   Link #103
Used Can
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
That's where I think you are making a mistake. Tsukasa made it very clear that the self she shows at school is also herself. This is precisely why she got so emotional, and slapped Junichi when he told her she shouldn't keep going the way she does. She even asked him not to deny her existence.

The thing about her is, during the time she plays the role of the class rep, there are things she doesn't show. However, just because she doesn't, that doesn't mean that's not her true self, but just part of it. Of course, you could effectively say that by just knowing the class rep side of Tsukasa, you're just scratching the surface of who she is, but still, that's also part of herself.
__________________
"The name is Tin; Used is just an alias. I'm everything Shoe Box would like to be." - Used Can of the Aluminium Kingdom
Used Can is offline  
Old 2010-10-22, 06:01   Link #104
Kusa-San
I'll end it before April.
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Used Can View Post
That's where I think you are making a mistake. Tsukasa made it very clear that the self she shows at school is also herself. This is precisely why she got so emotional, and slapped Junichi when he told her she shouldn't keep going the way she does. She even asked him not to deny her existence.

The thing about her is, during the time she plays the role of the class rep, there are things she doesn't show. However, just because she doesn't, that doesn't mean that's not her true self, but just part of it. Of course, you could effectively say that by just knowing the class rep side of Tsukasa, you're just scratching the surface of who she is, but still, that's also part of herself.
I undertand what you mean but we can't say someone is herself if she restrains herself her personnality. It's what she does at school. Her true feelings is never really expressed. She supressed them or at least a part of them. That's why for me it's not her true personnality. Her true personnality is not only being nice but also being "mean".
Kusa-San is offline  
Old 2010-10-22, 07:14   Link #105
Mentar
Sore wa himitsu desu!
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kusa-San View Post
I have explained why I'm not agreed so can you do the same ? Only saying that's not true is not really convincing....
Actually, I didn't say what you attributed to me ("that's not true"). I pointed out that there's no but one true face of Ayatsuji. She shows many of them, and most of them "fake". Or, at least, not fully true. Reason see below.

Quote:
And I'm not saying that she's not a multifaced character, I'm saying that the personnality she shows at school is not her trueself !
I've written one article in this thread about my opinion, back in july here. Keep in mind that it was written without game knowledge and with manga chapters only to the first one where Tsukasa falls ill.

What is one's "true face"? Feels like a matter of definition to me, and IMHO it should usually be "the face you show when you don't need to put conscious effort into controlling your behavior". However, this is all what Ayatsuji is about. Even in those scenes where she bares her soul to Junichi and explains what she thinks, what she does, and why she does it, she's controlling herself. When she breaks down crying ripping her notebook to shreds in the library, she's trying hard to control herself. So what remains to be picked?

In the end, with the knowledge of the whole manga, she is the sum of all things. She is a chameleon who adapts to the face her current situation requires restricted by what her current emotional state permits. Who shows the honor student to people not close to her, who shows her cat face to Junichi to have fun, who shows the "black" face to her enemies when she's mad and about to crack in public, and her vulnerable face to Junichi, also when she's about to crack in private. So, she's the sum of all these parts.

(IMHO)
Mentar is offline  
Old 2010-10-22, 07:41   Link #106
Marina2
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
It's nice to see that Tsukasa got more focus in each ep. since the ep 13 of the animation. It gives hints that who is the real heroine of Amagami ^^

By the way, I still wonder what is written in that book....I heard that the game doesn't tell it too.
Marina2 is offline  
Old 2010-10-22, 09:22   Link #107
Kusa-San
I'll end it before April.
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
I've written one article in this thread about my opinion, back in july here. Keep in mind that it was written without game knowledge and with manga chapters only to the first one where Tsukasa falls ill.

What is one's "true face"? Feels like a matter of definition to me, and IMHO it should usually be "the face you show when you don't need to put conscious effort into controlling your behavior". However, this is all what Ayatsuji is about. Even in those scenes where she bares her soul to Junichi and explains what she thinks, what she does, and why she does it, she's controlling herself. When she breaks down crying ripping her notebook to shreds in the library, she's trying hard to control herself. So what remains to be picked?

In the end, with the knowledge of the whole manga, she is the sum of all things. She is a chameleon who adapts to the face her current situation requires restricted by what her current emotional state permits. Who shows the honor student to people not close to her, who shows her cat face to Junichi to have fun, who shows the "black" face to her enemies when she's mad and about to crack in public, and her vulnerable face to Junichi, also when she's about to crack in private. So, she's the sum of all these parts.

(IMHO)
I agree with what you're saying and that's excaltly why I said Ayatsuji is not really herself at school. One of the most explicit scene was with the wastes and when she asked if Junichi heard her. For me being yourself is to not restrain yourself. It's not about having differents emotions (anger, sadness etc..) it's about to not hide these emotions. That's why I think she's only herself with Junichi because he knows all of her faces and she knows that she can be really herself with him.
Kusa-San is offline  
Old 2010-10-22, 12:14   Link #108
Bonta Kun
One Punch Man!
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Resides within the depths of Ned infested Glasgow
Awww man, now I really like how Jun-chan has been portrayed in this manga and was nice to say the least, none of that weird crap from the anime, altho at this point, I'm guessing all that stuff might have been in the game anyway.
But really the 2nd special was just *faceplam* I mean come on lad, really?!
It was all good right up till he asks to be her bitch....

Ah well I guess whatever works for the lad, as Miya puts it "Nii-ni, you look so happy.......and pathetic"
__________________
Bonta Kun is offline  
Old 2010-10-22, 12:19   Link #109
margafred
ლ(́◉◞౪◟ ◉ ლ )
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Oh god 16.6

Miya's last line pretty much sums up the chapter. I know being with school idol is a chance that no one should let go, but to sink so low to the point of becoming the school idol's doggie is juz... so wrong. If its me, i wouldn't go that far juz to get near with a girl that i love *maybe* .. at least i still have a man's pride with me.

Anyway overall chapter was good... at least they didn't ditch Haruka out from Precious Diary. Now to see if Rihoko and Kaoru too will have their own special chapter too.
__________________
Its ACGN that matters - A blog made by ACGN lovers,for ACGN lovers
margafred is offline  
Old 2010-10-22, 12:20   Link #110
Used Can
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
The problem is, I think, you cannot say she's not really herself at school, because Tsukasa herself wants to be the reliable class rep. She said she's worked hard to become that kind of person. So, that's also part of her true self.

The difference between our opinions, I believe, is that you think there is one underlying true Tsukasa, whereas I (and I believe Mentar as well) think all of the facets she's shown are all part of her true self. Tsukasa herself said she "has no sense of self" and the manga never denied that. So, that's the only thing that, apparently, holds true to all her different facets.

She wants to be the reliable class rep, but she also keeps many things inside, which she releases when she shows her "dark side". However, she also wants emotional support and at the same time, she also wants to share her feelings with someone else, and thus the self she shows to Junichi. All of these facets are somewhat related to each other, and Tsukasa needs all of them to keep a balance in her life. Thus, all of them are part of her true "self".

I think it's rather funny, because, if you think about it, Haruka and Tsukasa are polar opposites. Haruka has a strong sense of self, she expresses her likes and dislikes rather clearly along with her feelings. She's not the type of person to restrain herself. She basically does as she pleases. Tsukasa, on the other hand, doesn't have too much of a sense of self, she doesn't express what's inside herself freely. And she's always trying to keep her behaviour in check. Haruka is always Haruka. She'll be the same regardless of the situation. Whereas Tsukasa will change her behaviour depending on the circumstances.
__________________
"The name is Tin; Used is just an alias. I'm everything Shoe Box would like to be." - Used Can of the Aluminium Kingdom
Used Can is offline  
Old 2010-10-22, 12:30   Link #111
MeoTwister5
Komrades of Kitamura Kou
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Where I can learn to be lonely.
Age: 29
Pardon the intrusion but are you guys talking about Precious Diary or Sincerely Yours?
MeoTwister5 is offline  
Old 2010-10-22, 12:43   Link #112
Used Can
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
I think we're all talking about Precious Diary. I don't think there's many chapters scanlated for the other one.
__________________
"The name is Tin; Used is just an alias. I'm everything Shoe Box would like to be." - Used Can of the Aluminium Kingdom
Used Can is offline  
Old 2010-10-22, 14:54   Link #113
Knightrunner
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: United States--- California
I haven't read the manga or video just watched the anime but I don't understand why some people call Tsukasa a fake. If she is the class rep she is the class rep. If she has good grades she has good grades. People do not have to be a genious level to show that amount of dedication and talent it just means she worked a lot harder than anybody realize. Plus she has that nice person approach. That cannot be faked unless she thinks poorly of her fellow peers.

After seeing the Ai arc, I can tell she is very lonely. People must have thought she is so successful that they thought she has friends, but unfortunately that is not true. It can be lonely at the top sometimes and unfornately it is normal for some people in this world.
__________________
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/6139/omk1.jpg
Credit to grylsygaeger
Knightrunner is offline  
Old 2010-10-22, 15:11   Link #114
Xacual
The color of a Hero
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
If you haven't read the manga you should really avoid this topic since there are a lot of spoilers in here. You'll find all about Tsukasa in her arc so just wait for it if you're watching the anime only.
__________________
Xacual is online now  
Old 2010-10-22, 15:34   Link #115
Darknemo2000
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Lithuania
Age: 30
Send a message via AIM to Darknemo2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Used Can View Post
The problem is, I think, you cannot say she's not really herself at school, because Tsukasa herself wants to be the reliable class rep. She said she's worked hard to become that kind of person. So, that's also part of her true self.

The difference between our opinions, I believe, is that you think there is one underlying true Tsukasa, whereas I (and I believe Mentar as well) think all of the facets she's shown are all part of her true self. Tsukasa herself said she "has no sense of self" and the manga never denied that. So, that's the only thing that, apparently, holds true to all her different facets.

She wants to be the reliable class rep, but she also keeps many things inside, which she releases when she shows her "dark side". However, she also wants emotional support and at the same time, she also wants to share her feelings with someone else, and thus the self she shows to Junichi. All of these facets are somewhat related to each other, and Tsukasa needs all of them to keep a balance in her life. Thus, all of them are part of her true "self".

I think it's rather funny, because, if you think about it, Haruka and Tsukasa are polar opposites. Haruka has a strong sense of self, she expresses her likes and dislikes rather clearly along with her feelings. She's not the type of person to restrain herself. She basically does as she pleases. Tsukasa, on the other hand, doesn't have too much of a sense of self, she doesn't express what's inside herself freely. And she's always trying to keep her behaviour in check. Haruka is always Haruka. She'll be the same regardless of the situation. Whereas Tsukasa will change her behaviour depending on the circumstances.
Kierkeggaard it named - desperately wanting being one self. Just because you work hard it doesnt make it youself.

You may be creating an perfect model that you want to become as you think world wants you to become but it creates tension - as this model is not your self and the more you try to fit that model the more tension it creates which can result in unpredictable behaviour.

So yeah, I think the school model is a fake.
Darknemo2000 is offline  
Old 2010-10-22, 15:38   Link #116
Mentar
Sore wa himitsu desu!
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 44
I can only underline what Xacual said. If you're lucky and don't know about the manga or game concerning Ayatsuji, leave this thread with the safe knowledge that you're in for a real treat.

And I'm pretty confident that even those people who called her "fake" will rather be fans of her. At the very least she's the character that left the biggest impression on me by far
Mentar is offline  
Old 2010-10-22, 16:32   Link #117
Shiroth
Beautiful fighter.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: England, UK
Age: 28
Second special was amazing. It is a must read for Haruka fans.
__________________
Shiroth is offline  
Old 2010-10-22, 16:54   Link #118
wingman32x
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marina2 View Post
It's nice to see that Tsukasa got more focus in each ep. since the ep 13 of the animation. It gives hints that who is the real heroine of Amagami ^^
Oh, there's no problem there. Ayatsuji has been shoved down everybody's throats no matter what media form you use.

Ayatsuji was an okay character, and her story was interesting, but I like 4 girls better than her(Ai, Haruka, Kaoru, Rihoko). I never really got attached to her for some reason.
wingman32x is offline  
Old 2010-10-22, 17:12   Link #119
Kusa-San
I'll end it before April.
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Used Can View Post
The difference between our opinions, I believe, is that you think there is one underlying true Tsukasa, whereas I (and I believe Mentar as well) think all of the facets she's shown are all part of her true self.
I think the problem is that we're not agreed about the definition of "true self". For me, being yourself mean that you don't restrain your personnality to fit something. And that's exactly what Ayatsuji does. She restrains herself in school by only being the good preseident. It's a face of her personnality but it's not her complete personnality because she restrains herself. That's why I'm saying she's not really herself.


About the last chapter, it was great as usual and weird as usual with Haruka I love the last sentence : "So Junichi chose to be Haruka's dog. And the two of them lived happily ever after"

Oh yeah, I was wondering, why Miya is so distant when it comes to Haruka ?
Kusa-San is offline  
Old 2010-10-22, 20:47   Link #120
wingman32x
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Age: 24
Lmao, good chapter. Haruka is just awesome. She's a really fun character. I loved when Junichi asked to be Haruka's dog. That was so awkward, yet funny at the same time. Good little extra.
wingman32x is offline  
Closed Thread

Tags
romance, seinen

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 22:12.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.