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Old 2010-05-24, 10:13   Link #461
kitten320
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Originally Posted by orion View Post
And besides the females watching this can't squeal when Saito, Hiji and Okita save her if she becomes a kickass. That's the whole point here. Girls want to see those hunky guys in action.
I'm a female and I'm totally tired of princes on white horses constantly saving her ass.

It seriously pisses me off when females are pictured as weak creatures who needs protection all the time... Of course it doesn't mean that Chizuru has to take out each bad guy but it would be refreshing to see her at least try to do it and maybe even knock out some small fly at least once.
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Old 2010-05-24, 10:19   Link #462
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Originally Posted by kitten320 View Post
I'm a female and I'm totally tired of princes on white horses saving her ass all the time.
I agree, I don't think Chizuru learning to fight will make the Shinsengumi guys any less attractive... I'm actually getting increasingly frustrated every time they jump out to save her, and it gets even more annoying whenever the bad guy decides to run away after exchanging a blow or two... When the heck are we going to see any real fighting?
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Old 2010-05-24, 10:32   Link #463
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But then again, I am unaware of gender roles due to cultural differences but I can guess at it.
To be honest, i don't think it's cultural differences *points to Twilight*

Okay, maybe I should lay off Chizuru, but I swear if her incompetence ends up killing someone then there will be much rage and thrashing...
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Old 2010-05-24, 16:54   Link #464
White Manju Bun
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Originally Posted by orion View Post

And besides the females watching this can't squeal when Saito, Hiji and Okita save her if she becomes a kickass. That's the whole point here. Girls want to see those hunky guys in action.
Meh Id reather squeal seeing those guys fight in general but not always coming to rescue her. I agree its getting a bit repetitive but again she's not meant to fight/wield a weapon like they are. I was hoping for a bit of development from her but no one is giving her lessons cept the one when Saito told her to come at him. Its not her character, she's meant to be the one who's rescued even if, like me, the watchers get a bit annoyed with it

She's not Chrome from KHR so I cant complain to bad...
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Old 2010-05-24, 17:28   Link #465
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Well with evil Chizuru coming up and seeming to be a better fighter than Chizuru, I guess we can expect some nice action soon.
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Old 2010-05-24, 17:31   Link #466
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Originally Posted by kitten320 View Post
I'm a female and I'm totally tired of princes on white horses constantly saving her ass.

It seriously pisses me off when females are pictured as weak creatures who needs protection all the time... Of course it doesn't mean that Chizuru has to take out each bad guy but it would be refreshing to see her at least try to do it and maybe even knock out some small fly at least once.
You're totally right. It really gets tiring to watch a girl just sit back and be weak. Even partial competency would suffice. But running out into dangerous situations and closing your eyes isn't going to float my boat.

If she's not great at fighting, maybe she could use her brains? Outsmart the opponent or even just ask them (Shinsengumi) for help instead of running out and involving them. You don't have to be strong to win. There are plenty of other ways out there, it's a shame Chizuru has yet to use any of them though.

Last edited by Foreshadow; 2010-05-24 at 18:16.
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Old 2010-05-24, 18:10   Link #467
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Yep, good tactic can bring you the victory even if you are weaker than your opponent. You just need to think about it. If I was her I probably would try to come up with some tactic for future if you consider how often she gets into trouble.
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Old 2010-05-24, 20:26   Link #468
orion
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Originally Posted by Foreshadow View Post
You're totally right. It really gets tiring to watch a girl just sit back and be weak. Even partial competency would suffice. But running out into dangerous situations and closing your eyes isn't going to float my boat.

If she's not great at fighting, maybe she could use her brains? Outsmart the opponent or even just ask them (Shinsengumi) for help instead of running out and involving them. You don't have to be strong to win. There are plenty of other ways out there, it's a shame Chizuru has yet to use any of them though.
Katana fighting against the guys? You do need some strength behind the talent. She's an Oni so she just has to awaken that hidden strength of hers.

I bet she'll freak out if Hiji gets hurt since the show keeps pulling us in Hiji's direction.

She had a cute moment in ep. 8 and all you people are worrying about is her lack of katana skill. This is a romance/female fantasy title also...She saves the world and gets the guy.

Besides, it doesn't take much skill to attack someone from behind.
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Old 2010-05-24, 22:19   Link #469
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Lol. One way to put it I guess.



Anyways, Chizuru looks like the type that doesn't like fighting.
It would be nice trying to save someone on a whim, but it would suck to lose your life on it.
Try being in Chizuru's shoes. Would you pull out a small sword to take on 3 grown men who can easily overpower you?

If you said yes, then you clearly don't understand what kind of person Chizuru is lol.
Wasn't it against the law to even masquerade as a guy back then?

The girl can be impulsive. We've seen that in that she went to Kyoto masquerading as a guy to find her father. Besides, it's not like she wouldn't regenerate if she got injured. It'll hurt a lot but if she got stabbed she wouldn't die. And the others would have come to her aid by then. Chizuru was acting as a body shield for O-sen.

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Originally Posted by MikaMiaka View Post

And I agree with you on the NeoAngel and Pretear comparisons -- the issue isn't that it is similar (it is clear they are the same archetype of Otome Girl), the issue is why they have to shape female characters in this way.
Because it's a traditional female fantasy. The girl wants to be saved by the prince and marry the prince. Otome games apparently empowers the girl by having her save the world also. It's a phase that a lot of young girls go thru. I suspect that the age rating is for teens because of the subject matter and the fact that it's PSP/PS/Nintendo games.

Edit: the age rating is less apparently. At least one of them goes down to age 12+ .

Disney had a lot of dough on this formula (Snow White, Sleeping Beauty). Then the princess became empowered and saved the prince (Aladin, Beauty and the Beast, The Princess and the Frog). Ghibli got in on the act some (Ponyo, Howl's Moving Castle, Spirited Away).
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Old 2010-05-24, 22:35   Link #470
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Besides, it's not like she wouldn't regenerate if she got injured. It'll hurt a lot but if she got stabbed she wouldn't die. And the others would have come to her aid by then. Chizuru was acting as a body shield for O-sen.
I was wondering about this myself. She knows she has healing abilities that are not normal. It seems difficult to believe she found that out on the bridge (she seemed less surprised than frightened that Hijikata would find out). It does seem she might have been hoping she would survive the sword attacks.

And again this leads me to my earlier question: doesn't she seem more threatened by the blonde oni than by actual physical attacks? Not only did she prepare to draw her sword against him, but she struck an uncharacteristically aggressive pose with the broom when he showed up by the pool.

It's like she doesn't consider humans a threat.
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Old 2010-05-24, 22:59   Link #471
orion
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I was wondering about this myself. She knows she has healing abilities that are not normal. It seems difficult to believe she found that out on the bridge (she seemed less surprised than frightened that Hijikata would find out). It does seem she might have been hoping she would survive the sword attacks.

And again this leads me to my earlier question: doesn't she seem more threatened by the blonde oni than by actual physical attacks? Not only did she prepare to draw her sword against him, but she struck an uncharacteristically aggressive pose with the broom when he showed up by the pool.

It's like she doesn't consider humans a threat.
Well that's what the blond guy was warning them about her. Humans prob aren't a threat to her but her fellow male Oni with combat skills are. One of them wanted to shoot her just to prove the point so she has to have immense regenerative capabilities.

Maybe she just didn't want to bear his kids.
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Old 2010-05-25, 04:13   Link #472
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I was wondering about this myself. She knows she has healing abilities that are not normal. It seems difficult to believe she found that out on the bridge (she seemed less surprised than frightened that Hijikata would find out). It does seem she might have been hoping she would survive the sword attacks.

And again this leads me to my earlier question: doesn't she seem more threatened by the blonde oni than by actual physical attacks? Not only did she prepare to draw her sword against him, but she struck an uncharacteristically aggressive pose with the broom when he showed up by the pool.

It's like she doesn't consider humans a threat.
I believe it is more due to the fact the oni guy is an actual threat for the shinsengumi, as opposed to yet another nameless thug on the street. In other words, fighting him can easily go wrong, as in some of the Shinsengumi might get injured/killed - he has certainly demonstrated to be capable of achieving said goals. She doesn't necessarily have to be threatened by his attacks, more of the fact he seems capable of having his way with her if he wanted to (and has expressed the willingness to abduct her), and may well get away with it. He (and his companions of equal strength) have expressed the desire to kidnap her, and have demonstrated the skill to accomplish that goal, which would result in her ending up in a who knows what situation. All things combined, it isn't really a surprise she is frightened of running in to him, for more reasons than just her physical well being.
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Old 2010-05-25, 04:31   Link #473
MikaMiaka
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^^I thought she grabbed the sword because he mentioned her heritage, blood and sword? I don't remember clearly, but I thought that was why she grabbed her sword -- because he mentioned it.

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Originally Posted by orion View Post
Because it's a traditional female fantasy. The girl wants to be saved by the prince and marry the prince.
That's fine. They can rescue her. What I don't like is that she causes the situation intentionally, knowing full well she can't handle it. It's unnecessary, as a trait, even if the purpose was to have the guys come rescue her. It's annoying for the viewing audience.

----------------
And RE: something Zu Ra said earlier about seeing Chizuru as a younger sister -- that's the vibe I get too. It's not really leading lady/love interest vibes -- she seems to not be made of that material. Haji was still suspicious of her even after a year, and they don't treat her like a potential GF. I guess that's her thing though -- the tomboy. But if this is a romance, it's sorely lacking in that area. There's no build up -- the intent seems to be historical accuracy instead of the romance.

Which is fine, but not what I expected at first.

Last edited by MikaMiaka; 2010-05-25 at 04:46. Reason: spam masubi!!!!!
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Old 2010-05-25, 10:52   Link #474
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I'm a rather hardcore fan of Hakuouki, and i have to agree that Chizuru is starting to get on my nerves with her "i-wanna-help-but-i-cant-actually-do-anything-much" attitude/behavior.

And as a reply to what Joojoobees mentioned earlier on how Chizuru seemed more threatened by Kazama than by actual physical attacks, i'm hoping against odds that it's a step for Chizuru to drawing her sword and putting it to use for good.
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Old 2010-05-25, 19:14   Link #475
orion
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----------------
And RE: something Zu Ra said earlier about seeing Chizuru as a younger sister -- that's the vibe I get too. It's not really leading lady/love interest vibes -- she seems to not be made of that material. Haji was still suspicious of her even after a year, and they don't treat her like a potential GF. I guess that's her thing though -- the tomboy. But if this is a romance, it's sorely lacking in that area. There's no build up -- the intent seems to be historical accuracy instead of the romance.

Which is fine, but not what I expected at first.
Well, she's dressed up like a boy most of the time and they treated her like one of the guys. except for Okita. They got a good look at her all dressed up but it's not going to change much as they can't act on it. And they are searching for her father who is with the enemy. She's a person who could side with the enemy so Hiji has to be wary of her. Not to mention that the enemy told them that she's dangerous and an Oni.

Romance takes time. Something should happen soon after her little dress up. (I think something did happen. Hiji actually wanted to talk with her in private when she was all dressed up. Those shojo bubbles were around Hiji.) But in Pretear you didn't see much until close to the end of the show when shit started hitting the fan.
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Old 2010-05-26, 00:05   Link #476
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^^I thought she grabbed the sword because he mentioned her heritage, blood and sword? I don't remember clearly, but I thought that was why she grabbed her sword -- because he mentioned it.
No. Look at the beginning of episode 7, he doesn't mention the sword at all. He either commented on the sword at the end of 6, or when she met him on the bridge (5?). Blonde oni makes his remark about this being a matter between oni in front of Hijikata. Then there is a side fight, after which she starts to draw the sword. It is like she wants to shut him up. She doesn't actually draw the sword because ninja-boy shows up and stops her.

And then, towards the end she gets into a fighting stance, while opposing the blonde oni. Based on the fighting skills she has shown so far, she has absolutely no chance of winning in a fight against that guy, who has prevailed against the Shinsengumi in the past. It is also unlike her character as shown so far to attack anyone.

This makes me wonder if she isn't hiding her background from the Shinsengumi. This would make Hijikata's suspicions justified.
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Old 2010-05-26, 03:17   Link #477
MikaMiaka
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No. Look at the beginning of episode 7, he doesn't mention the sword at all. He either commented on the sword at the end of 6, or when she met him on the bridge (5?). Blonde oni makes his remark about this being a matter between oni in front of Hijikata. Then there is a side fight, after which she starts to draw the sword. It is like she wants to shut him up. She doesn't actually draw the sword because ninja-boy shows up and stops her.

And then, towards the end she gets into a fighting stance, while opposing the blonde oni. Based on the fighting skills she has shown so far, she has absolutely no chance of winning in a fight against that guy, who has prevailed against the Shinsengumi in the past. It is also unlike her character as shown so far to attack anyone.

This makes me wonder if she isn't hiding her background from the Shinsengumi. This would make Hijikata's suspicions justified.
Ahhh, I see. I just remembered a part where he (being the Blonde oni) said something about her having a short sword, and she reaches for it. So she reached for it twice. Haha.

We keep calling him the blonde guy, but what's his name? Gah.

Anyway, this show has its charms.
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Old 2010-05-26, 06:17   Link #478
Zeyroth
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We keep calling him the blonde guy, but what's his name? Gah.
Kazama Chikage is his name ;D


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Anyway, this show has its charms.
I definitely have to agree with that
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Old 2010-05-26, 07:37   Link #479
orion
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This makes me wonder if she isn't hiding her background from the Shinsengumi. This would make Hijikata's suspicions justified.
Oh,she's definitely hiding something. She hid the fact that she heals fast. We never found out why those guys in ep. 1 were after her too.

Plus, she's having a ball there despite being under house arrest for the most part. It's like it's safer for her to be with those armed guys than mingling with the public and running into Oni.
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Old 2010-05-26, 07:39   Link #480
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Oh,she's definitely hiding something. She hid the fact that she heals fast. We never found out why those guys in ep. 1 were after her too.
From what's been said in a past episode, the two Oni guys from the first episode just happened to have escaped and ran into Chizuru. Now there's a chance there will be more to that story, though i've got nothing against it staying the way we've been to told.
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