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Old 2010-10-30, 21:02   Link #241
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shmaster View Post
Aleister is the one beyond 0 and 1. But the Tree of Sephiroth is just an analogy to that status Aleister has attained, not his actual association.
Aleister attained that status through the theory of Secret Chief.

That is not a analogy to Kamijou.
IE I think it's saying that Crowley is transcendent over life and death. And since right before that it states how it's like there are countless clones of him everywhere.....I think he's actually omnipresent somehow..
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Old 2010-10-30, 23:11   Link #242
Flere821
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shmaster View Post
Aleister is the one beyond 0 and 1. But the Tree of Sephiroth is just an analogy to that status Aleister has attained, not his actual association.
Aleister attained that status through the theory of Secret Chief.

That is not a analogy to Kamijou.
About the 'Secret Chief', can you give some more detials on that? The Chinese translators left a note saying they have no idea what that is supposed to be about after having done some research.
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Old 2010-10-30, 23:32   Link #243
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flere821 View Post
About the 'Secret Chief', can you give some more detials on that? The Chinese translators left a note saying they have no idea what that is supposed to be about after having done some research.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_chief

More of Blavatsky's rather dubious interpretation of Eastern religion and her own occult research...
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Old 2010-10-31, 00:05   Link #244
MeisterBabylon
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Originally Posted by I_am_Kami View Post
shit. can u imagine the amount of research the author had to do?
We certainly can't imagine how did he do all that research AND produce what 4 mangas 22 novels 3 animes in 6 years?!

He's a program man. Just add concepts and he'll print out a story.
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Old 2010-10-31, 01:08   Link #245
shmaster
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So far in the novel, Aiwass is Aleister's Secret Chief, and Aleister is his "window".
Anna Sprengel is considered to attain the same state, as a "window" of the Secret Chief.

By becoming a "window" of superior beings, they now exercise powers beyond human. This is also how he can be omni-present. Their existence aren't as defined as a "window", in other words, their existence is also more free.

It is like saying he might be here but might not be here too. (but do not confuse it with Schrodinger's Cat, where things is undefined due to a lack of observation.)
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Old 2010-10-31, 01:12   Link #246
Chaos2Frozen
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What's a 'Secret Chief'? And I assume by 'window' you mean Aleister is like an 'Avatar' or 'representive' of Aiwass?

btw, quick wiki check says that 'Anna Sprengel' existence was never proven?
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Old 2010-10-31, 02:20   Link #247
Flere821
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After reading through Vol22 Epilogue again, Aleister also mentions Anna Sprengel as the founder of the of Magic Cabal 'Golden' (Chinese just says 'Gold', 黄金), and now he's on the same level of existence as her.

Thanks Cosmic Eagle and everyone, that was a name I couldn't quite translate into English ^.^;
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Old 2010-10-31, 02:23   Link #248
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flere821 View Post
After reading through Vol22 Epilogue again, Aleister also mentions Anna Sprengel as the founder of the of Magic Cabal 'Golden' (Chinese just says 'Gold', 黄金), and now he's on the same level of existence as her.

Thanks Cosmic Eagle and everyone, that was a name I couldn't quite translate into English ^.^;
I swear Kamachi has to be as major a geek as some of us here to be able to sift out such esoteric stuff like this....
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Old 2010-10-31, 02:24   Link #249
shmaster
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Secret Chiefs are higher spiritual beings that oversees the magical operation of the world or even cosmic order.

In real life, Anna Sprengel and Aleister were said to attain the state of a Secret Chief.
Though, the existence of Anna Sprengel was never proven.

As for Crowley, he said he had attained the state of 8=3, the stage that is corresponding to the Secret Chief and the circle of Binah of the Sephiroth. Aiwass is on a higher state of 10=1 and performs his will through Crowley.
Quoting Crolwey himself from Equinox: "I now incline to believe that Aiwass is not only the God or Demon or Devil once held holy in Sumer, and mine own Guardian Angel, but also a man as I am, insofar as He uses a human body to make His magical link with Mankind, whom He loves, and that He is thus an Ipsissimus, the Head of the A.'.A.'."

In the novel, Anna and Crowley were describe as Secret Chief's "window", the reason why their existence is uncertain and couldn't be proven.
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Old 2010-10-31, 02:31   Link #250
shmaster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flere821 View Post
After reading through Vol22 Epilogue again, Aleister also mentions Anna Sprengel as the founder of the of Magic Cabal 'Golden' (Chinese just says 'Gold', 黄金), and now he's on the same level of existence as her.

Thanks Cosmic Eagle and everyone, that was a name I couldn't quite translate into English ^.^;
Anna is the one who appointed the leader, not the leader himself.
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Old 2010-10-31, 02:34   Link #251
outerelf
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Doesn't Kamachi have some sort of helpers to help him look this stuff up? That's certainly be much more believable...

Then again, there are those people who have a good memory and can read stuff once and remember most of it, with only a few details different here and there.
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Old 2010-10-31, 02:34   Link #252
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shmaster View Post
Secret Chiefs are higher spiritual beings that oversees the magical operation of the world or even cosmic order.

In real life, Anna Sprengel and Aleister were said to attain the state of a Secret Chief.
Though, the existence of Anna Sprengel was never proven.

As for Crowley, he said he had attained the state of 8=3, the stage that is corresponding to the Secret Chief and the circle of Binah of the Sephiroth. Aiwass is on a higher state of 10=1 and performs his will through Crowley.
Quoting Crolwey himself from Equinox: "I now incline to believe that Aiwass is not only the God or Demon or Devil once held holy in Sumer, and mine own Guardian Angel, but also a man as I am, insofar as He uses a human body to make His magical link with Mankind, whom He loves, and that He is thus an Ipsissimus, the Head of the A.'.A.'."
I find it amusing how they incorporate and warp Vajrayana Buddhism and Kabbalistic practices into works like Theosophy and we get the Secret Chief principle from it....with the very ungodlike RL Crowley claiming such a status...shows you just how much people back then desired exploration of unknown cultures...
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Old 2010-10-31, 02:57   Link #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outerelf View Post
Doesn't Kamachi have some sort of helpers to help him look this stuff up? That's certainly be much more believable...

Then again, there are those people who have a good memory and can read stuff once and remember most of it, with only a few details different here and there.
His best friend's probably Google. Most people these days think it's just a way to look up porn, but it can help look up info.
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Old 2010-10-31, 03:17   Link #254
shmaster
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People often says that Kamachi works too hard and Haimura is going to die of overwork because Kamachi don't let him rest.
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Old 2010-10-31, 23:11   Link #255
Flere821
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shmaster View Post
Anna is the one who appointed the leader, not the leader himself.
Chinese translation of the Japanese bit:

既能做好作为连接secret chief 的「窗口」的工作,同时协助设立了「黄金」的结社的女人,安娜?修普林凯勒

My Translation into Eng:

The woman who can perform the task of being the 'window' to the secret chief, and at the same time helped setting up the 'Golden' cabal, Anna Sprengel


So she didn't appoint the leader, she's one of the founders - which is what I said in my earlier post.
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Old 2010-10-31, 23:52   Link #256
shmaster
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Bleh, I am mixing it with what happened in the real life. In real life, Westcott had Anna appointed him as the leader so he can have the legitimacy to lead the Golden Down
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Old 2010-11-01, 00:17   Link #257
pikachuwei
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maybe the author is just a thelemite

thats why he understands all this confusing terminology
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Old 2010-11-01, 09:29   Link #258
Miraluka
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Anna Sprengel....

At this point of the series, somebody else had the feeling Anna Sprengel can be included as a character in the series?
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Old 2010-11-01, 22:11   Link #259
pikachuwei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
Anna Sprengel....

At this point of the series, somebody else had the feeling Anna Sprengel can be included as a character in the series?
she is laura stewart in disguise

both are british magicians

well Anna Sprengel IS english right?

in any case it could explain why laura knew aleister's true identity and was confident she could take on AC in another war.
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Old 2010-11-01, 23:27   Link #260
shmaster
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Anna is a child between a Irish mother and German father.
On the other hand, I think the possibility of Laura being Aleister's daughter is still there.
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