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Old 2012-06-22, 13:14   Link #941
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoddyofAus View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inept Forum User View Post
I was thinking about AIM fields and magical artifacts, and there were a couple of questions that I wanted to ask here.
  1. Firstly, we've seen the incompatibility between AIM and mana, as well as the damage that can be caused by it. We've seen this effect being used against a magic user to damage them - I was thinking that (active?) magical artifacts might experience similar damage. Do you think this would be the case?
  2. The second question regards espers wielding magical artifacts (knowingly or not). I wasn't sure about what conditions might set off a rejection reaction, whether it was any triggering, a conscious invocation or what (for example, what would happen if an esper, unaware of the consequences, were to unsheath Dáinsleif (not that that would happen though)). I was also not sure about whether items with a continuous effect would cause a reaction or not (Aisa's cross doesn't but that might not apply for some artifacts). What do you lot think the conditions are?

(Apologies for poor writing, tired)
I would assume an Esper even physically touching a magical object or weapon would set off a reaction.

Not necessary though; I'm guessing you're using Oriana's [short hand] grimoires as the example? In her case, she had intentionally set the thing to trigger with the slightest indication of a magical casting but I suspect most artifacts would require more than just a simple touch to activate.

Or to put it in another way, simply being in contact with any form of magic wouldn't trigger an 'allergic' response; otherwise you should see that reaction whenever anybody touches say Fake Mitsuki.
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Old 2012-06-22, 13:29   Link #942
Ilidsor
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^Also Himegami has that magic cross that seals her powers. If it was an allergic reaction like thing she would be long dead.

Last edited by Ilidsor; 2012-06-22 at 15:09. Reason: Grammer
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Old 2012-07-01, 10:53   Link #943
ellifeedn
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Since there are magicians that use the Arcana, do you think they use the Rider-Waite deck or the Thoth deck designed by a certain you-know-who?
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Old 2012-07-01, 11:30   Link #944
Miraluka
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Well, its pretty much obvious various forms of magic has the influence of the magician Aleister Crowley in the series, so I think its a matter of time before they start appearing more often.
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Old 2012-07-03, 17:03   Link #945
judasmartel
神の金槌 (ユダ=マーテル)
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What do you think of magic based on the Filipino amulet (agimat) and the legend of Taro Urashima?

Spoiler for My thoughts on amulet magic:
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Old 2012-07-07, 15:48   Link #946
Ashaman
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“It was the same when I did it. That is the proof that the current generation Imagine Breaker is still attached to him. There is meaning in that right hand belonging to him. To put it one way, the right hand is only the right hand when it is growing from his right shoulder.”
Imagine Breaker - sentient or not?
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Old 2012-07-07, 17:10   Link #947
Ilidsor
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Well he did talk to the invisible thing that comes out when he loses his arm in volume 22. That might be just the invisible thing though. Hopefully we'll find out more about his power in NT5 cause he's with Orellus and Fiamma now.

Speaking of which is there any new news about NT5 at all?
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Old 2012-07-09, 13:26   Link #948
GoddyofAus
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Originally Posted by Ilidsor View Post
Well he did talk to the invisible thing that comes out when he loses his arm in volume 22. That might be just the invisible thing though. Hopefully we'll find out more about his power in NT5 cause he's with Orellus and Fiamma now.

Speaking of which is there any new news about NT5 at all?
Nothing. Not a word.
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Old 2012-07-15, 06:06   Link #949
judasmartel
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Say, sure Mikoto can do anything with her Electromaster ability, including but not limited to creating iron sand whip swords. So in the event that she has to get down and dirty (though unlikely, as she usually spams lightning attacks from long range), can she reliably use it?

Consider that some unofficial assessments state that she's not a good enough swordsman to fully utilize those iron sand whip swords on a consistent basis.
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Old 2012-07-15, 07:07   Link #950
zaeraal
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It's nowhere stated that she knows how to "use a sword".

And from the manga/anime it looks like she just "swings it around".
There isn't any hint of her using some proper stance, so she would not be thrown of her balance while swinging it,
nor any proper aiming nor anything that would imply she ever practiced with swords.
She also wasn't mentioned to be enroled in any Kendo clubs/lessons (or something like that).




Ofc. you might find many contradicting information regarding this, mostly thanks to her "desperate" fans, that sometimes praise her to that extent it gets ridiculous.
This is an old quote from her wiki, that was already deleted (not by me)
Quote:
Originally Posted by abilities section
Hand To Hand Combat: Though not shown to have received formal indoctrination in Martial Arts like Kuroko and Mii, the experience Mikoto accumulates from her frequent scuffles with delinquents superpowered or otherwise has allowed her to develop a straightforward yet effective personal style of melee combat. Unlike Kuroko, who tends to utilize throws and grappling techniques, Mikoto favors right-crosses into the face and brutal kicks to the midesection, which is usually more than enough to incapacitate her foes. That aside, she is also a competent if unrefined swordswoman when utilizing her electrically conjured iron-sand-sword.
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Old 2012-07-15, 09:08   Link #951
judasmartel
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Street fighting, huh? Much like Touma, except that she has her iron sand sword just in case she needs to get nasty. But considering that Touma sans IB is a Stone Wall...
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Old 2012-07-16, 08:33   Link #952
Saishy
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Touma street fighting is on a very good level, it is stated he can somehow predict his enemy moves, Tsuchimikado said (about Touma) he don't know if Touma is able to read their aim field or have any power or if he is just used at fighting.

Misaka is only better than your average joe because she does like to fight, the light novel states it is not unusual to find her challenging and entering random brawls.
But because of her powers she is not very good at hand to hand combats.
Even so she is able to take down and lock people who don't know how to fight at all, even bigger targets than her, as you can see in the Shopping Mall Demonstration where she applies lock moves.
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Old 2012-07-16, 08:47   Link #953
tsunade666
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Tsuchimikado is trained martial artist for what I remember about him. Not just being a descendant of Abe no Seimei and a great omyouji practitioner. He has lots to show than that. A double spy is what he called himself right?

Touma with all the fight he ended up fighting ended up being a training for him. Well experience is a good teacher and he got lots of it in various ways.
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Old 2012-07-16, 15:30   Link #954
Saishy
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Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
Tsuchimikado is trained martial artist for what I remember about him. Not just being a descendant of Abe no Seimei and a great omyouji practitioner. He has lots to show than that. A double spy is what he called himself right?

Touma with all the fight he ended up fighting ended up being a training for him. Well experience is a good teacher and he got lots of it in various ways.
I said that Tsuchimikado said those things about Touma, wasn't talking about Tsuchimikado himself.

Edited to make it clearly.
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Old 2012-07-17, 10:24   Link #955
Awrya
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Tsuchimikado is trained martial artist for what I remember about him. Not just being a descendant of Abe no Seimei and a great omyouji practitioner. He has lots to show than that. A double spy is what he called himself right?
I think he settled with multi spy at the end of Vol. 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saishy View Post
Touma street fighting is on a very good level, it is stated he can somehow predict his enemy moves, Tsuchimikado said (about Touma) he don't know if Touma is able to read their aim field or have any power or if he is just used at fighting.
If he had any power it'd be cancelled by Imagine Breaker.
In Vol. 9 Accelerator also speculated that Touma can read changes in AIM field, with his example Touma subconsciously noticing changes in AIM.
Just from memory, Touma has more trouble fighting magicians than espers, though it could be due to the facts he fights more magicians than espers.
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Old 2012-07-17, 15:20   Link #956
Saishy
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I think he settled with multi spy at the end of Vol. 4

If he had any power it'd be cancelled by Imagine Breaker.
In Vol. 9 Accelerator also speculated that Touma can read changes in AIM field, with his example Touma subconsciously noticing changes in AIM.
Just from memory, Touma has more trouble fighting magicians than espers, though it could be due to the facts he fights more magicians than espers.
I think he can "read" changes by supernatural powers subconsciously, as he is able to quickly block many lethal attacks from magicians even if he can't see the attack himself. (Like with that Woman magician that used spells by tearing a small paper form a ring, she used some very quick and some invisible spells that Touma blocked by instinct).

I guess he have more problems with Magicians because they have more tools for the job, and more of them know about Kamijou power.

Like, Misaka can't directly attack Touma, she could throw something heavy using magnetism but in this specific case she don't because she don't want to actually kill him.
But for an esper that have never seem someone simply negate a thousand bolts without any kind of equipment, they would be kinda shocked to see their powers not working and not able to quickly think of something else.
But for a magician, like Styil, it is not unusual for some of their spells to be useless, even the first time he found Touma he didn't had any tool for dealing with him but he was able to understand that something was negating his power so he could do something about it by using an indirect source of power. (Innocentius)

Kinda like how Accelerator could have just throw things at Touma until he died but was so shocked that his power didn't work that couldn't think straight.
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Old 2012-07-17, 19:54   Link #957
Chaos2Frozen
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Actually Magicians would get just as easily confused with his ability, before him there's no such thing as a complete negation of their power, everything follows a theory and so they wasted concentration trying to figure it out.

Stiyl didn't use Innocentius because he thought it could counter it; Stiyl used Innocentius because it was his Ace-in-the-hole, his strongest spell.
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Old 2012-07-18, 08:52   Link #958
Saishy
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Actually Magicians would get just as easily confused with his ability, before him there's no such thing as a complete negation of their power, everything follows a theory and so they wasted concentration trying to figure it out.

Stiyl didn't use Innocentius because he thought it could counter it; Stiyl used Innocentius because it was his Ace-in-the-hole, his strongest spell.
No, he does uses because Innocentius can self-regen.

Some quotes

Quote:
The magician was as flustered as any normal human being at the unexpected turn of events.

Meanwhile, Stiyl very nearly took a step backwards in shock over the incomprehensible phenomenon before him.

- - -

“…Could he be using magic?” Stiyl muttered under his breath, but he immediately rejected the idea.

Abruptly, truly abruptly, something floated up in the back of Stiyl Magnus’s mind.
Index’s Walking Church nun’s habit was Pope-class and its barrier rivaled a London cathedral in its power. It was absolutely impossible to destroy it unless the legendary dragon of St. George appeared.

- - -

Kamijou Touma blew away Stiyl Magnus’s final trump card. As if he had stabbed a water balloon with a pin, the human-shaped fuel oil symbolizing the giant flame god burst into spray and scattered about the area.

Kamijou Touma had no real reason for not taking his last step at that moment.
It was simply that Stiyl was still smiling despite having his final trump card destroyed. That expression was enough to make him hesitate before carelessly taking that last step.

As Kamijou took a step back in surprise, the black spray returned from all directions, gathered in midair, and reformed into a human shape.

- - -

Index: “Attacking Innocentius will have no effect. Unless the rune engravings carved into the walls, floor, and ceiling are eliminated, it will revive as many times as necessary.”
While he is stunned that his spells were completely negated instead of just being countered he did found out that "something is able to negate my spell" and come up with something that even if negated couldn't be taken down.
Him smiling while Kamijou was going for the hit was proof enough that he knew exactly what he was doing.

Magicians are used to their spells being blocked or useless, because that is all there is to a magician fight. You analyze their spells and then creates a counter, by which point the enemy is supposed to have something else to play.

I think the most esper-like magician is Richard and his Laevatein, he was so proud of his spell that he didn't actually have anything else. Because he was so sure his enemy couldn't counter it he didn't have anything else to play.
Actually, not like he didn't had anything else. Like most Espers who could user their power in other ways, he was just too used to using the same thing.

Magicians are all about having the right tool for the job, unlike espers who have a main tool for everything.
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Old 2012-07-19, 19:36   Link #959
judasmartel
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And yet espers can do so many things with the only one tool they have.
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Old 2012-07-20, 17:19   Link #960
Awrya
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And yet espers can do so many things with the only one tool they have.
It depends on the kind of spell, Fiamma's Holy Right could do literally everything, from killing a cockroach to busting a planet.
Because magicians expect their spells to be countered by enemies, they accumulate a great amount of different spells, so when their spells are countered, they won't be a sitting duck. Besides, when it is possible to learn multiple spells from one magic system, which are useful in different situations, why shouldn't they?

Espers are more resourceful since they only have one ability. If telekinesis isn't working, they can't just switch to another ability, they have to change their use of ability depending on the situation.
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