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Old 2013-04-10, 16:31   Link #1241
Lulu Vie Britania
Genderless telepath
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Norway
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
^huh? wtf 0_0 Mikoto no.2? not a chance. The gap of 1 and 2 might be large but that's past and the truth stands that no. 1 and 2 are special from the others. No. 2 now stands at top against no. 1 with his weakness which is time while No. 2 is practically immortal.
Really there is no way that he can figure out how to beat №2? I do not believe that he will remain in the position below Teitoku. After all, he is number 1 and he has number 1 brain in AC. Must be at least one way in which Accel will surpass Teitoku's "immortality". (Somehow, just somehow)
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Old 2013-04-10, 16:44   Link #1242
Dyingbreath
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Originally Posted by Lulu Vie Britania View Post
Really there is no way that he can figure out how to beat №2? I do not believe that he will remain in the position below Teitoku. After all, he is number 1 and he has number 1 brain in AC. Must be at least one way in which Accel will surpass Teitoku's "immortality". (Somehow, just somehow)
Logically he must have some weakness. Aleister wouldn't have kept him alive if he didn't think he could be controlled when he regained a body. There has to be some plan to it.
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Old 2013-04-10, 17:27   Link #1243
Rovert10
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Originally Posted by Dyingbreath View Post
Logically he must have some weakness. Aleister wouldn't have kept him alive if he didn't think he could be controlled when he regained a body. There has to be some plan to it.
Did Aleister keep him alive or did Kakine keep himself alive?
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Old 2013-04-10, 17:29   Link #1244
Dyingbreath
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Did Aleister keep him alive or did Kakine keep himself alive?
Aleister using Dark Legacy a machine created by Heaven Canceller.
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Old 2013-04-10, 18:57   Link #1245
tsunade666
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: In my room
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lulu Vie Britania View Post
Really there is no way that he can figure out how to beat №2? I do not believe that he will remain in the position below Teitoku. After all, he is number 1 and he has number 1 brain in AC. Must be at least one way in which Accel will surpass Teitoku's "immortality". (Somehow, just somehow)
If we are talking about Aleister he probably had a fail safe for the system of dark matter so it won't be a treat to him but for accelerator and kakine.

If you ask me, they are both now in equal. Sure Kakine can't beat Accelerator but the same can be said on Kakine.

If we turn this in macro level. Accelerator would wipe the world to get rid of Kakine while Kakine would just create a new world.

In topic of Macro Esper which was the goal of Gremlin. I still can't understand it that much. Its like Othinus wants the knowledge to be wild spread.
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Old 2013-04-10, 19:08   Link #1246
Dyingbreath
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Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
If we are talking about Aleister he probably had a fail safe for the system of dark matter so it won't be a treat to him but for accelerator and kakine.

If you ask me, they are both now in equal. Sure Kakine can't beat Accelerator but the same can be said on Kakine.

If we turn this in macro level. Accelerator would wipe the world to get rid of Kakine while Kakine would just create a new world.

In topic of Macro Esper which was the goal of Gremlin. I still can't understand it that much. Its like Othinus wants the knowledge to be wild spread.
The best I can understand how Holistic ESPers to regular ESPers is the way a massive explosion causing Nuclear fusion relates to Nuclear fission creating a huge explosion. One uses macro-level change to cause micro-level change and the other is reverse.
Accelerator and Kakine, even with massive scale use of their power would still be regular espers, not holistic espers.
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Old 2013-04-10, 19:59   Link #1247
tsunade666
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Originally Posted by Dyingbreath View Post
Accelerator and Kakine, even with massive scale use of their power would still be regular espers, not holistic espers.
That's true. They aren't holistic espers yet but Accelerator can stop the earths rotation while kakine has infinite army.

AND THEY ARE NOT F*CK*NG HOLISTIC ESPER YET!!!!
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Old 2013-04-10, 20:10   Link #1248
leukrota
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AND THEY ARE NOT F*CK*NG HOLISTIC ESPER YET!!!!
... Right, keep telling yourself that.
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Old 2013-04-10, 22:04   Link #1249
Dyingbreath
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Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
That's true. They aren't holistic espers yet but Accelerator can stop the earths rotation while kakine has infinite army.

AND THEY ARE NOT F*CK*NG HOLISTIC ESPER YET!!!!
Eh, I still call hax on that first thing with Accelerator. And as for Kakine... well there must be something but he's just not been present enough for any of his weaknesses to be known. And his "dark matter" is an alien concept so it's hard to judge what's going on with that unless more information is given about it.
Looking at biology what he's done, which is to say reproduce human tissue, is impossible to do with a single material as cells need to have many types of materials to function so we can either assume his dark matter can turn into different materials or that it lied in that it can't actually create human tissue and he can still be easily killed if the brain is destroyed.
If you assume the first then there may be some way to interrupt the process and turn the altered dark-matter back into regular matter or it could be that it follows the exact same laws once it's altered in which case he has a life-span equivalent to any human's.
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Old 2013-04-11, 06:10   Link #1250
demino_hellsin
That one guy
 
 
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Are majin still subject to luck and fate in the 50% magic they cast?
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Old 2013-04-11, 06:10   Link #1251
tsunade666
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Kakine is Kakine that is not Kakine. He is just dark matter with the consciousness of Kakine Teikoku. I don't know if its even alright to classify him as living being since he just reproduce himself from the dark matter.
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Old 2013-04-11, 06:17   Link #1252
Chaos2Frozen
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Originally Posted by demino_hellsin View Post
Are majin still subject to luck and fate in the 50% magic they cast?
...thats the whole point of it.

Anything they 'attempt to do' is subjected to that 50:50, though the true extent to how much it covers has yet to be seen.

The advantage of this is that no matter how impossible a task is, other people might only have a 0.0001% chance of success, but for her its always 50%.
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Old 2013-04-11, 06:24   Link #1253
demino_hellsin
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But that 50 is absolute or subject to higher powers as luck or fate or no?
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Old 2013-04-11, 06:33   Link #1254
Dyingbreath
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Originally Posted by demino_hellsin View Post
But that 50 is absolute or subject to higher powers as luck or fate or no?
Looking at it from a logical point of view then yes it is subject to fate, or rather the outcome is known beforehand and thus can only proceed one way, and is thus not actually 50/50.
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Old 2013-04-11, 06:52   Link #1255
demino_hellsin
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I was wondering if someone could manipulate probability and reduce the 50 to 0... Wouldn't that seal a majin?
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Old 2013-04-11, 07:25   Link #1256
Dyingbreath
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Originally Posted by demino_hellsin View Post
I was wondering if someone could manipulate probability and reduce the 50 to 0... Wouldn't that seal a majin?
Technically her chance of success is either 100% or 0%. The outcome is predetermined. Omnipotence implies fate which precludes probability and free will.
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Old 2013-04-11, 07:40   Link #1257
demino_hellsin
That one guy
 
 
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so the only outcomes are exactly what she wants or nothing?

I suppose if I had to dissect the logic to this as I understand it there are three parts:

- outlook
- process
- outcome

Outlook would be 50/50 as initially assumed

it converts to the process where factors are taken in to either go into any of the future routes, meaning translation into output.

Output is controlled by fate as prescripted outcomes/situations born of the act.

If someone had the ability to reduce the process' probability to 0. Then what?
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Old 2013-04-11, 11:34   Link #1258
Dyingbreath
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by demino_hellsin View Post
so the only outcomes are exactly what she wants or nothing?

I suppose if I had to dissect the logic to this as I understand it there are three parts:

- outlook
- process
- outcome

Outlook would be 50/50 as initially assumed

it converts to the process where factors are taken in to either go into any of the future routes, meaning translation into output.

Output is controlled by fate as prescripted outcomes/situations born of the act.

If someone had the ability to reduce the process' probability to 0. Then what?
Then she couldn't do anything. In my fiction I'm planning a way to do exactly that, which explains why the power of a maijin exists in the first place... so two birds.
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Old 2013-04-11, 21:08   Link #1259
demino_hellsin
That one guy
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Well what I wanted to do was have someone who could control fate to a limited extend fight her. As it turns out, her ability as a majin would be her downfall. Because the one who can control fate can only nudge the events into a certain direction. It's normally impossible to force fate into a specific path because one moment always leads to another infinite number of branches with some not even known to the fate controller. But with the majin, it's always only two paths: "Yes" or "No".

Irony at its finest
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Old 2013-04-12, 00:03   Link #1260
Chaos2Frozen
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...I don't see how this is any different from anybody else.

You either pass or failed, everything else is just details.

If you can make a magic god always fail then you can make anyone always fail and so you've created a haxx character that can overpower the existence of the pinnacle of magic mastery. To put it into perspective you have created someone that rivials the powers of the old god king Odin and his divine spear because thats the power that is require to alter her ratio.
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