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Old 2013-04-18, 06:27   Link #1281
demino_hellsin
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More of heat esper would be infinitely more powerful and versatile.
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Old 2013-04-18, 06:30   Link #1282
judasmartel
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Close enough. So how Heat espers can be versatile, then?
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Old 2013-04-18, 06:35   Link #1283
demino_hellsin
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Didn't I just say they can manipulate the weather ?

They can evaporate water which influences atmosphere and wind direction which also is a weather factor. Increase air pressure in enclosed space. Lots of neat destructive stuff.
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Old 2013-04-18, 06:36   Link #1284
judasmartel
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Wow, that's sweet, but that looks like a villain superpower to me.
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Old 2013-04-18, 06:42   Link #1285
demino_hellsin
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It generally is. But you can use that as a base. Fire can be treated as ignited air by heat.
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Old 2013-04-18, 06:44   Link #1286
erneiz_hyde
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Quote:
Originally Posted by judasmartel View Post
So what do you think are the other uses of Fire-based Esper powers (regardless of level) asides those mentioned above?
One thing that came to mind was "burning through one's own reserves of energy (carbohydrate, fat, etc, etc) to produce rapid bursts of energy to use for extraordinary physical feats". Basically your usual shounen power-ups explained in a pseudo-scientific way

My understanding of the esper power in the To Aru universe is, the higher your level, the more control you have over the basic physical principle behind the phenomenon. It's why Accelerator and Misaka can apply their powers in a whole different ways because they no longer control 'the effect', but 'the cause' directly.

And btw, referring to this concept of fire triangle, I assume a fire-controlling esper controls the "heat" part to control combustion (since afaik, espers don't have anything akin to mana to stand in as the other two element). If that is the case, consequently this esper can also have a chance to develop the ability to freeze things as they go higher in level, but that is a Level 5 category already.
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Old 2013-04-18, 06:47   Link #1287
demino_hellsin
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^what he said.
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Old 2013-04-18, 06:49   Link #1288
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
If that is the case, consequently this esper can also have a chance to develop the ability to freeze things as they go higher in level, but that is a Level 5 category already.
Not necessary.
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Old 2013-04-18, 06:51   Link #1289
demino_hellsin
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But generally is
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Old 2013-04-18, 06:54   Link #1290
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Originally Posted by demino_hellsin View Post
But generally is
Since when?

If the idea is to control the flow of heat energy as the ability, you don't need someone who has enough juice to take on an army to be able to do that.

A simple Level 3 or 4 would suffice.
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Old 2013-04-18, 06:57   Link #1291
demino_hellsin
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The thing is starting point. Ofcourse your case is when the starting point is already heat. But if their starting point is fire which is a product of heat, they progress untill they cannot progress anymore and work backward into the basic component which is heat.

Just as humans have reached a certain threshold of outter exploration they started studying smaller scale stuff which gave us knowledge of cells and atoms and even subatomic structure.
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Old 2013-04-18, 07:14   Link #1292
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demino_hellsin View Post
The thing is starting point. Ofcourse your case is when the starting point is already heat. But if their starting point is fire which is a product of heat, they progress untill they cannot progress anymore and work backward into the basic component which is heat.

Just as humans have reached a certain threshold of outter exploration they started studying smaller scale stuff which gave us knowledge of cells and atoms and even subatomic structure.

Unfortunately that is said to be impossible by canon, what you're describing is dual skill.

If you want to be technical, it's impossible to develop without external power i.e a network.

If your ability is to create fire, then there's no way you can create ice on your own.
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Old 2013-04-18, 07:20   Link #1293
demino_hellsin
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But canon is not completely without flaw in logic. Dual skill is possible with a network because it requires the outlook and calculation power of other esper. So to speak another personal reality to create more than 1 skill. However if one can expand their perssonal reality then they can add more to their current ability set so long as it branches from the original power. Start with fire, move to heat, then move to reducing temperature then move on to ice. When you reach that level you might not just be level 5 but the level 6 that academy city "wants".
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Old 2013-04-18, 07:21   Link #1294
erneiz_hyde
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Unfortunately that is said to be impossible by canon, what you're describing is dual skill.
Which is also why I said it's level 5 category already; it's a canon impossibility.

edit:
I think it was also here that I stated "Uiharu could become an apocalyptic powerhouse if she continues to develop her powers", but was rejected because canon impossibility.
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Old 2013-04-18, 07:23   Link #1295
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demino_hellsin View Post
But canon is not completely without flaw in logic. Dual skill is possible with a network because it requires the outlook and calculation power of other esper. So to speak another personal reality to create more than 1 skill. However if one can expand their personal reality then they can add more to their current ability set so long as it branches from the original power. Start with fire, move to heat, then move to reducing temperature then move on to ice. When you reach that level you might not just be level 5 but the level 6 that academy city "wants".
That is called dual skill =_= Having two Personal Reality to create two different powers.

Something which is canonically impossible.
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Old 2013-04-18, 07:30   Link #1296
demino_hellsin
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Then accelerator has 3 personal realities because he can move objects, create plasma and technically brainwash people.

EDIT: also, having two of one thing is different from having one thing of higher quality.
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Old 2013-04-18, 07:39   Link #1297
erneiz_hyde
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
That is called dual skill =_= Having two Personal Reality to create two different powers.

Something which is canonically impossible.
Misaka used her powers differently to produce different results. It's not hard to imagine there are espers with abilities to exclusively manipulate magnetic fields but not electric currents, but Misaka was able to produce iron sand swords because there is a basic physical concept that links between electricity and magnetism.

I wouldn't mind a bit technical spoiler, so please explain to me, how does this Personal Reality work anyways? Is it something that one have from the start and is unchanging, or does it builds up with experience? I'm under impression of the latter since Misaka was celebrated as someone who climbed the ladder with hard-work. Is it possible one can misunderstand how his or her own Personal Reality works?
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Old 2013-04-18, 08:07   Link #1298
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demino_hellsin View Post
Then accelerator has 3 personal realities because he can move objects, create plasma and technically brainwash people.

EDIT: also, having two of one thing is different from having one thing of higher quality.
No, it's all just an application of his core/basic/primary power which remains the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
Misaka used her powers differently to produce different results. It's not hard to imagine there are espers with abilities to exclusively manipulate magnetic fields but not electric currents, but Misaka was able to produce iron sand swords because there is a basic physical concept that links between electricity and magnetism.
Yes, because her basic skill allows for it.

I've already said this from the beginning, your basic skill has to be something flexible.

If your skill is to just create fire- Specifically creating fire, then all you get is just various application of fire. If it's the movement of heat energy, then you don't need to be a Level 5 to use it to create cold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Since when?

If the idea is to control the flow of heat energy as the ability, you don't need someone who has enough juice to take on an army to be able to do that.

A simple Level 3 or 4 would suffice
.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
I wouldn't mind a bit technical spoiler, so please explain to me, how does this Personal Reality work anyways? Is it something that one have from the start and is unchanging, or does it builds up with experience? I'm under impression of the latter since Misaka was celebrated as someone who climbed the ladder with hard-work. Is it possible one can misunderstand how his or her own Personal Reality works?
Your CORE ability does not change, only the application of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
Which is also why I said it's level 5 category already; it's a canon impossibility.
Level 5s can't Dual Skill either.
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Old 2013-04-18, 08:21   Link #1299
demino_hellsin
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which part is misaka's core ability? electro shock or magnetism?
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Old 2013-04-18, 08:23   Link #1300
Chaos2Frozen
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Electricity of course, her ability is call Electromaster for a reason.
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