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Old 2013-04-18, 10:08   Link #1321
demino_hellsin
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Exactly. You need energy to cause ignition. That energy is heat. Since a fire esper does not use heat, he directly interferes with the chemical reaction that causes the "spark". A little modification and you have a walking limitless nuke.

EDIT: a fire esper is better heat-based to explain why they don't get burned by their own fire.

Last edited by demino_hellsin; 2013-04-18 at 12:26.
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Old 2013-04-18, 15:05   Link #1322
tsunade666
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I read the conversation so far and I will make it simple.

Abilities can't be change. If your core ability is electricity then your ability will evolve as your control over it grows. If your ability is to create fire like a pyromaster than your ability is to create fire and other various abilities concerning fire.

YOU CANNOT CREATE ICE IF YOUR CORE ABILITY CONCERNS FIRE.

Even if Fire is connected to hit and if you lower the heat it will turn to ICE.

But the point is your core ability is to create and manipulate fire and not heat or movements of molecules.

Heat is produced in movement of molecules right? rapid movement to heat up and if it slows down and put to stop it freeze? (sorry not good at physics)

Then if your core ability is to control HEAT (and not fire) then its possible.

Uiharu's ability is the best description for it. Her ability to control temperature.

HER ABILITY IS NOT TO CREATE FIRE SO ITS DIFFERENT FROM ABILITY TO CONTROL FIRE.

Misaka is an electro master. Her core ability is to control electricity or produce it. So she can produce electricity and the sub product of it is magnetism.

If your core ability is to create or produce fire then your whole ability will revolve through it. You can heat up the surrounding to produce rain, you can trow fireballs then melt earth to turn into lava. BUT NOT CREATE ICE. Because your core ability is to produce fire and control it. NOT HEAT. even if they are related.

Core ability matters and it will only revolve that way because you only have one personal reality. That's why its called personal reality.

YOUR OWN VIEWS OF THE WORLD.

You can't have two personal reality unless you have two minds on your skull.

Dual skill was attained because of the network of different personal reality and not just one.
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Old 2013-04-18, 15:29   Link #1323
Sumeragi
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Very simple way of explaining the above: If your ability is related to fire, then you'll have to use the fire to make ice. If your ability is related to temperatures, then you can theoratically control both ice and fire, but not out of thin air.
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Old 2013-04-18, 16:02   Link #1324
Chaos2Frozen
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Join Date: Nov 2006
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Age: 25
...Both of which I've already explained last page But whew, at least we aren't contradicting as I had feared
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Old 2013-04-18, 18:56   Link #1325
demino_hellsin
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electricity is not a sub product of magnetism. In fact you could say it's the opposite. A difference in magnetic field which causes electron flow and voltage potential is what causes electricity. The fact that Misaka uses electricity first before magnetism confounds me. That or she learned how to shock people first before realizing that magnetism has more uses than firing a railgun -_-". Again that makes her name electromaster a bit of a misnomer.

Then the only path for a fire esper is to be an ignition type :/
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Old 2013-04-18, 19:02   Link #1326
Chaos2Frozen
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Why are you making this difficult?

Her ability is electricity, thats what she started with.

Mikoto -> AIM -> Electricity

Not

Mikoto -> AIM -> magnetism -> electricity
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Old 2013-04-18, 19:04   Link #1327
Haigon
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She is a Electromaster.
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Old 2013-04-18, 19:15   Link #1328
demino_hellsin
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*scratches head* so if her power is electricity at its core. She causes electron jumps regardless of condition then?

For example, ignoring the difference between voltage potential and makes something from lower voltage potential jump to higher.
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Old 2013-04-18, 19:23   Link #1329
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demino_hellsin View Post
*scratches head* so if her power is electricity at its core. She causes electron jumps regardless of condition then?

For example, ignoring the difference between voltage potential and makes something from lower voltage potential jump to higher.
Do you think its possible to generate electricity, gather it up, aim, and fire it =_= ?

Personal Reality is that device that allows for these to happen, to hand wave the scientific flaws to some degree.
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Old 2013-04-18, 19:29   Link #1330
demino_hellsin
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I prolly could but the explanation would lead to a circular argument so I'll concede.
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Old 2013-04-18, 19:30   Link #1331
leukrota
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I've always thought that Uiharu's explanation for Personal Reality illustrates the best how it works in the toaru verse: They are strong delusions.

In that sense, without the Academy City, Accelerator would just be a teen with the worst case of chuunibyou
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Old 2013-04-18, 19:38   Link #1332
Chaos2Frozen
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In a sense, both magic and science use similar methods; magic uses tales and myth to shape their power, while espers uses science theory, or at least partial, to control and apply thir powers.

Both use ideas that they can be easily relate.

Writing with your right hand, not your left foot, remember?
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Old 2013-04-18, 19:51   Link #1333
ellifeedn
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I wonder what sort of powers someone trying to copy the Boogeyman would have.
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Old 2013-04-18, 19:53   Link #1334
Chaos2Frozen
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http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogeyman
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Old 2013-04-18, 21:29   Link #1335
ellifeedn
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I meant in this series. Would they have the ability to travel through shadows? Change into all sorts of monstrous shapes and fears? Literally be unstoppable as long as people are afraid?
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Old 2013-04-18, 21:47   Link #1336
kagato3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demino_hellsin View Post
which part is misaka's core ability? electro shock or magnetism?
the 2 are really the same thing from a physics perspective as they create each other and you can't have one with out the other.

all magnetic fields are caused by electron movement



Misaka is described in the novels that she fires lighting by changeing voltage potentals with her aim feild and and letting Physics do the rest. The railgun is a true magnetic railgun setup by altering the eletrical feilds of the air.

if anything I would say Misaka's base power is electron control.
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Last edited by kagato3; 2013-04-18 at 22:04.
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Old 2013-04-18, 22:01   Link #1337
demino_hellsin
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Hallellujah, my questions have been answered!

Uh, magnetic fields are generated by difference in electron concentration which is caused by electron concentrations wanting to equalize. The actual transit or jumps of these electrons is electricity to my knowledge.
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Old 2013-04-18, 22:11   Link #1338
erneiz_hyde
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kagato3 View Post
the 2 are really the same thing from a physics perspective as they create each other and you can't have one with out the other.

all magnetic fields are caused by electron movement
From all the lectures in the previous day, I learn that what matters is what your power actually controls directly. Misaka can bypass several laws of physics to generate electricity, but still have to follow physics to generate magnetism.

Speaking theoretically, if there is an esper who directly controls magnetism rather than electricity, this esper could produce the effects of a railgun a little less effortlessly than how Misaka does it, but consequently they can't conjure electricity or generate city wide thunder storm as easily as Misaka did it.

=====

Btw, if electricity is essentially moving electrons, theoretically Accelerator could also do everything Misaka could do, couldn't he? Albeit it's pointlessly roundabout way to use his powers.
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Old 2013-04-18, 22:17   Link #1339
Chaos2Frozen
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Drangelic, or by a different name...
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In my opinion, if he can touch it, Accelerator can do something about it...


...except maybe teleporting- he can't teleport.
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Old 2013-04-18, 22:38   Link #1340
kagato3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demino_hellsin View Post
Hallellujah, my questions have been answered!

Uh, magnetic fields are generated by difference in electron concentration which is caused by electron concentrations wanting to equalize. The actual transit or jumps of these electrons is electricity to my knowledge.
Magnetic Fields are caused by the movement of charged particles even in neutrally charged mater so all atoms have a magnetic Field but most of the time they are too weak to be detected it's only when you get large numbers of them to line up such as when current is run through a medium that it becomes noticeable.

electron concentrations are what is commonly known as static electric charges

And electricity is the movement of electric charge



Quote:
Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
From all the lectures in the previous day, I learn that what matters is what your power actually controls directly. Misaka can bypass several laws of physics to generate electricity, but still have to follow physics to generate magnetism.

Speaking theoretically, if there is an esper who directly controls magnetism rather than electricity, this esper could produce the effects of a railgun a little less effortlessly than how Misaka does it, but consequently they can't conjure electricity or generate city wide thunder storm as easily as Misaka did it.

=====

Btw, if electricity is essentially moving electrons, theoretically Accelerator could also do everything Misaka could do, couldn't he? Albeit it's pointlessly roundabout way to use his powers.
I think Misaka only bypasses Physics in that she can move charges around contrary to electric potentials, she doesn't create the electrons. and as stated magnetism is generate b6y the movement of electric charges so she can create it useing the same physics bypass.

Accelerator could also do most everything Misaka could do if he didn't have his range limit. she can effect electric fields at a distance Accelerator can only effect those very close to himself.
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Last edited by kagato3; 2013-04-18 at 22:52.
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