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Old 2013-05-24, 04:32   Link #1581
LazyHunter
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Mugino's power is to turn electrons into a unique type of matter which is in a state between particles and waves. This matter his highly destructive. Her beams would just be her shooting this matter like a projectile.
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Old 2013-05-24, 04:42   Link #1582
demino_hellsin
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So it causes a transformation of subatomic particles then?

If it is a projectile, how does it interact with Silicon Burn?

if it exists as a matter that is a wave particle hybrid then it hits the silicon and the waves are refracted? Where does the particle mass go? How does it interact? Does it stop after hitting the silicon card? If that's so then it's possibly not a homogenous wave-particle hybrid but part of the beam is particles while another part is waves. But if it is a homogenous hybrid then the capacity to cause an impact and refract would be contradictory. Or is that the way it's supposed to work?
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Old 2013-05-24, 06:33   Link #1583
Cthaeh
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Science is not Kamachi's (or most other LN authors') strong suit, so trying to find an exact real world science explanation is often challenging. That said, my interpretation of Mugino's power was that it was an electron beam. That mean the electrons are traveling in a straight line though open space and not hopping across a conduction pathway. Electrons always have some characteristics of both particles and waves; and while I'm not 100% on this, I believe that once they are traveling in an electron beam, they are more like particles than in other conditions.

And then for comparison, I would say Misaka's power is to control electric fields, which allows her to cause electrons to "flow" from one place to another along a conduction pathway (like lightning does). Manipulating an electric field also allows her to create magnetic fields. As an analogy, Misaka's power would be like controlling how water flows down a hill, and Mugino's would be like shooting a bullet. That makes it sound like Mugino should be more powerful, but Misaka's power can be applied in more diverse ways.
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Old 2013-05-24, 07:36   Link #1584
Chaos2Frozen
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Science is a very broad term.

I would say physics is not his strongest suit, but technology is.

As you would notice, in the later stories he stops with the crazy physics powers and focus heavily on technology.
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Old 2013-05-24, 07:53   Link #1585
kaizerknight01
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Kamachi.exe like blend scientific theories and myth/legend/traditions/religion into something something new .A new mythos as basis for his story btw

Spoiler for the theory of Dark matter as explained by Michio Kaku:
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Old 2013-05-24, 08:06   Link #1586
Cthaeh
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I think I'd agree with that. I'd say that works because the technology is effectively a black box; he gives the vague concepts behind it, but doesn't try to make up too many specific details. I think his technology is certainly interesting, and as long as he doesn't give too much detail I can just enjoy it without my interest in actual science getting in the way.
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Old 2013-05-24, 08:14   Link #1587
Chaos2Frozen
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Kamachi is easily influence when he sees a cool concept even if he doesn't fully grasp everything about it; I can relate to that.

But I guess concepts follow better for technology than for physics.
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Old 2013-05-24, 08:23   Link #1588
demino_hellsin
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But overall I think the theories on this thread are linked. Not uniform but one way or another we're supported by the general idea Kamachi is giving. Should we combine this set knowledge?
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Old 2013-06-02, 21:45   Link #1589
kagato3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demino_hellsin View Post
So it causes a transformation of subatomic particles then?

If it is a projectile, how does it interact with Silicon Burn?

if it exists as a matter that is a wave particle hybrid then it hits the silicon and the waves are refracted? Where does the particle mass go? How does it interact? Does it stop after hitting the silicon card? If that's so then it's possibly not a homogenous wave-particle hybrid but part of the beam is particles while another part is waves. But if it is a homogenous hybrid then the capacity to cause an impact and refract would be contradictory. Or is that the way it's supposed to work?
Her beams are pretty much a large scale electron gun like is used in an old crt tv. these beams of electrons are in fact much like photons in the respect that they act both as waves and as particles in a dual manner. So Silicon burn is use to create interfeance patterns that spilt her beams.

this is also why Railgun is the worst match up with her
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Old 2013-06-06, 15:08   Link #1590
dniv
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I'm not sure if this has been mentioned:

Aren't Mugino's powers at the sub-atomic level? Research with her could lead to a grand unified theory of Relativity/quantum physics where quantum physics is the base of all of Academy city's esper powers. Putting these two things together could be great.

Mikoto herself says that her powers are useful to study and have many applications at some point. They could actually have some pretty beneficial effects in neuroscience/ the medical field/ electronics (lol) / and I guess other things as well.

Accelerator's powers can be used for research on spoilerish things so no comment.

Kakine Teitoku's powers can be used for research on spoilerish things as well.

Sogita's powers if understood could probably change understanding of all laws of existence

Misaki's powers could be used to research a lot of different things: neuroscience and other related fields.

Touma's power could be used to understand the most fundamental secrets of the world, I'm guessing.

My real question is this: why is no one using magic for scientific research? I understand that you can't really have magician-espers.

However, if magicians and scientists actually worked together: you could magic to kind of infinitely power scientific inventions, right? Or you could use magic+science to accomplish feats that either one can't do by itself.

Why don't both sides generally work together? I am actually pretty confused about this. If you are going to say that it's because both sides don't want to work together and hate each other then don't answer this question. I want an answer to this part of the question from someone who has at least read all of OT and some of NT: they would understand why I am saying this and why this isn't that simple of a question.
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Old 2013-06-06, 15:12   Link #1591
Haigon
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Because pride.

Recently we have GREMLIN, mixing Magic and Science.
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Old 2013-06-06, 15:42   Link #1592
dniv
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haigon View Post
Because pride.

Recently we have GREMLIN, mixing Magic and Science.
True, I guess. Why not AC though? That was my real question. Or is that this privilege
Spoiler for don't read this if you haven't finished up through Volume 22:


I am somewhat curious about this.
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Old 2013-06-06, 16:49   Link #1593
Chaos2Frozen
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Not pride- Politics.

Both of them have separate agendas.

That's like asking why the Russians and Americans didn't work together during the space race.
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Old 2013-06-06, 18:38   Link #1594
Miraluka
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CoughEllis&Sherrycough.
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Deal with it!
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Old 2013-06-06, 18:43   Link #1595
Acer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
CoughEllis&Sherrycough.
best comment of the topic.
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Old 2013-06-06, 18:46   Link #1596
dniv
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acer View Post
best comment of the topic.
Lol. Are you talking about why they would hate each other or about why doing it is futile when you say that? If you're saying why it's futile, I already said that what they tried to do there was a bad idea or that they approached it incorrectly.

I mean we've seen some examples where it can work... anyone who has seen Index I knows at least one of them.
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Old 2013-06-06, 20:51   Link #1597
Acer
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not that a happy marriage between the parties is bad, in theory it would be something very beneficial for both parties, but the series shows that just shit out of a union between magicians-scientists, there are many negative points to consider in such a union.
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Old 2013-06-19, 19:52   Link #1598
Marina2
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So, I let my imagination run wild and guess about Number #6 Power (Don't take it too seriously)

Since he/she is the sixth. It either mean that
1.) His/Her power cannot be measured like Gunha
2.) His/Her power is the least useful power out of all lv5
3) His/Her power is totally useless for AC to research

In my theory, I will go with 2.

People usually think that all lv5 power should super-awesome ,but for me that's unnesscessary.
Since all esper power have a chance to be level 5. (It just that the user have a limited) We should have one lv5 power that sound simple but it is considered Lv5 by the standard used for power-level measurement.

The Sixth power should be the non-combat power as there are already have five combat powers. Having one more support power like Misaki's Mental out
will be a good balance.

I think the sixth power should be : (I don't know what should I name it) , the power that enhance all senses of user to the great level. With it, it granted the user many special abilities

Brain
- Perfect memory: Can perfectly remember everything he/she saw/heard/read
- (Very) Fast Learner: Can become skilled at anything / Master everything in a shot time. This is reason she is considered Lv5
- Genius
- Very good reflex to a surround situation.
- It also give her a precognition like Touma's

Eyes
-Super sight: Can clearly see a thing far far away. Can read or see very small text/object perfectly. Can see a movement that normally would be too fast for normal human eyes to catch.

Ear
- Super hearing: Can heard even the sound of an insect flipping it wings from far away.

Nose
-Super nose: you can guess it


Character

The sixth is the active, smart, and cheerful/funny person. He/she always seek for a new knowledge to learn. He/she like to build a good relationship with everyone.

However, he/she dislikes (and is sad) when people comment on his/her power as something boring ,and lame for Lv5 power. Therefore, he/she tries his/her best to prove that his/her power is useful. Currently, he/she can speak over 50+ language, has a A+ grade in all field of study, master many martial arts, master in using all kind of weapons. All thanks to his/her power.

Expected Quote from this person

- "Knowledge is the human's greatest treasure!"

- (Tearly eyes) "See? My power is useful right? RIGHT?"

-"Let's become friend. You can leran many things from me and I can learn many new things from you!"

- "With my power, I can master everything in a very shot time even if those things will take years for a normal person to master "

.....................................
What do you guys think?
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Last edited by Marina2; 2013-06-19 at 20:33.
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Old 2013-06-19, 21:19   Link #1599
silverexorcist
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My first and main problem with your theory is that it ignores one fact; it has been repeatedly said that each level 5 wields a superpower capable of handling an entire army. So far, so good, since Shokuhou can easily send an entire nation into a self-destructive spiral with her mind control, let alone a whole army.

I agree that not all the powers need to use complicated physics. I think it's about time we saw a simple superpowered esper with all the 'normal' abilities, such as super speed and super strength. But level 5s are more than that. They don't need to be combative, but they definitely need to be OP and complicated in order to be of interest to Academy City.

This is just a minor person issue, but I would say your first and third speculations for the number six having the rank he has is kind of redundant. Sogiita's power is not immeasurable, per se--he's clearly beyond any level 4, but he doesn't have the predetermined qualities that Academy City's important people seem to have set as the standard for level 6, which would put him at level 5 by default. I'm fairly certain Sogiita is only seventh BECAUSE his power, undefinable as it is, cannot be used for further research.

Assuming that the six is simply the weakest of the seven, as I feel is the best scenario to look at, I have to agree with the 'faster learner' theory, to an extent. I expect another level 5 who simply has a common power, just really strong (such as Misaka or Shokuhou), and non-combative to fit the balance. The strongest psychometric esper would fit that criteria and would definitely be interesting.

Of course, I can't prove or disprove your ideas for personality, but personally, I want to see another insane level 5. Whether level 5 provokes mental abnormalities, if those abnormalities are necessary to become level 5, or if its all coincidence as proven by Misaka and just makes for good character personality, I doubt Kamachi-dono would create a level 5 that breaks from that pattern. We already have a level 5 who's oddity is the ability to remain normal even after seeing some horrible things (...Misaka).

Plus, I have the strong feeling that the sixth's convenient ability to hide from that man who tried to find him means something, probably in relation to his power. Hence the common invisibility theory. I mean, they found Mugino, Kakine...Accelerator too, but he wasn't part of the dark side at the time. The sixth must have some impressive skill when it comes to making himself disappear if it wasn't thanks to his ability.

I'll stick to my theory on a level 5 psychometric because I just want to see how Kamachi-dono would portray it that badly.
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Old 2013-06-19, 21:56   Link #1600
Marina2
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Thanks for your comment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by silverexorcist
My first and main problem with your theory is that it ignores one fact; it has been repeatedly said that each level 5 wields a superpower capable of handling an entire army. So far, so good, since Shokuhou can easily send an entire nation into a self-destructive spiral with her mind control, let alone a whole army.
Isn't that just a common indicator of what they expected power at Lv5 can do? I don't think they include support-type or non-combative power in that explanation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by silverexorcist
I agree that not all the powers need to use complicated physics. I think it's about time we saw a simple superpowered esper with all the 'normal' abilities, such as super speed and super strength. But level 5s are more than that. They don't need to be combative, but they definitely need to be OP and complicated in order to be of interest to Academy City.
Aren't the esper level ranked according to power's strength/control? If they have an indicator for level 1-5 for every ability, then lv5 are not need to be 'OP and complicated in order to be of interest to Academy City'. That's why I think it would be nice contrast to have one lv5 esper that's not 'useful' for AC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by silverexorcist
This is just a minor person issue, but I would say your first and third speculations for the number six having the rank he has is kind of redundant. Sogiita's power is not immeasurable, per se--he's clearly beyond any level 4, but he doesn't have the predetermined qualities that Academy City's important people seem to have set as the standard for level 6, which would put him at level 5 by default. I'm fairly certain Sogiita is only seventh BECAUSE his power, undefinable as it is, cannot be used for further research.
Undefinable.........ah, that's actually the word I want to use.
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Last edited by Marina2; 2013-06-19 at 22:59.
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