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Old 2010-11-07, 18:16   Link #401
wingman32x
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
Well, I don't know about no food - I mean, it is a restaurant! Seems like "no TV" is where it crossed the line into cruelty. But now it looks as if they've taken Ika in as a houseguest, so it's a moot point.
I know it's a moot point now. I was just giving my thoughts on that episode in particular. And they chained up the fridge, saying that Chizuru would punish her if she got into it.

It looks like they're treating her better, indeed, but they treated her bad at times the first 3 or so episodes.

And I'm not making a huge deal out of this. It was just something I noticed.
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Old 2010-11-07, 19:51   Link #402
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingman32x View Post
I know it's a moot point now. I was just giving my thoughts on that episode in particular. And they chained up the fridge, saying that Chizuru would punish her if she got into it.

It looks like they're treating her better, indeed, but they treated her bad at times the first 3 or so episodes.

And I'm not making a huge deal out of this. It was just something I noticed.
Yeah something I did notice. Not one to make a big deal about it, but was noticeable. Not having food is bad, but not having food while being locked up in a restaurant is taking it to another level. That threat of Chizuru taking action was definitely a more powerful deterrent against going into the fridge than the chains.

Is moot point now since she is in their home and has access to food. Things have overall been going better though they do still pick on her at times. Might have been an easier way than drop-kicking Ika unconscious . But she was going pretty far overboard.
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Old 2010-11-07, 20:03   Link #403
FlavorOfLife
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About the fridge, from what Ika said, its not the first time it happened. Given her lack of self control (mentioned in another episode), its likely if they did not lock the fridge she would have cleaned it out and ended up like mni-ika, with indigestion.

Anyway she's a squid. She's next to the ocean. She came from that ocean.
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Old 2010-11-07, 22:49   Link #404
risingstar3110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingman32x View Post
I know it's a moot point now. I was just giving my thoughts on that episode in particular. And they chained up the fridge, saying that Chizuru would punish her if she got into it.

It looks like they're treating her better, indeed, but they treated her bad at times the first 3 or so episodes.

And I'm not making a huge deal out of this. It was just something I noticed.
You are not the only one. I was shocked at how they exploit her ink for profits in ep 1. Then left her in the restaurant alone while lock away the fridge is indeed sub-human ("pet") treatment. Normally you should teach the child(let just say she's as clueless as one) to not cross the lines in eating manner by reasons or punishment. Not by locking her away from foods...

And she was so lonely and bored that she have to play with soy source bottles....

At least she was treated better now. Hope she have a bed to sleep and good food at least. She seems to love EIko and want to earn her recognition through. I start liking Eiko after that dream sequence and how it's possible for Eiko to treat Ika nicely
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Old 2010-11-07, 23:26   Link #405
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risingstar3110,i've seen your earlier posts on the matter and there's something the intrigues me.

How can you you have a problem with the humor in ika musume when you have angel beats as your sig?That show has people dying in great pain as a joke quite regularly,and I know they come back to life but they still suffer much more than anything ika musume has had to deal with,and they don't always die willingly.

(that might come off a bit harsh,there's no hard feelings,just curiosity)
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Old 2010-11-08, 00:21   Link #406
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlavorOfLife View Post
About the fridge, from what Ika said, its not the first time it happened. Given her lack of self control (mentioned in another episode), its likely if they did not lock the fridge she would have cleaned it out and ended up like mni-ika, with indigestion.

Anyway she's a squid. She's next to the ocean. She came from that ocean.
Not like itwould have been hard to leave out some food for her before leaving. Besides we're talking about someone who forgot that she couldn't drown . She really might end up starving before realizing she could find some food in the ocean.
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Old 2010-11-08, 01:28   Link #407
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She had all you can eat condiments, don't forget.
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Old 2010-11-08, 02:17   Link #408
risingstar3110
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Originally Posted by totoum View Post
risingstar3110,i've seen your earlier posts on the matter and there's something the intrigues me.

How can you you have a problem with the humor in ika musume when you have angel beats as your sig?That show has people dying in great pain as a joke quite regularly,and I know they come back to life but they still suffer much more than anything ika musume has had to deal with,and they don't always die willingly.

(that might come off a bit harsh,there's no hard feelings,just curiosity)
To answer your question, they hurt badly but they didn't die through. And my (or general audiences) mirror neurons are easier to sympathize to cases of child (the squid one) being treated badly, rather than randoms guys being chopped into pieces by halberds then put on a comedic comeback line about how he was nearly killed...

Similarly I do not complaint about how Ika tentacles be cut off and how it could be cruel and hurt to do so. Simply because while i know i should be, i can't sympathize to that, and it does not ruin the comedic side as the result

back to the topic, the problem is not whether Ika has food to eat or not. But do the sisters care enough to wonder if she will be hungry or lonely alone at night. That's what bugged me
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Old 2010-11-08, 02:57   Link #409
winkel
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I find it disturbing that the 'humans' are less human in comparison to some sealife. Ika-chan is being a honest girl, and helps others and is generally nice and innocent, yet the humans exploit her, abuse her, and mistreat her.

I can't help but feel as if the series isn't some giant social commentary on what it really means to be human.
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Old 2010-11-08, 03:39   Link #410
drobertbaker
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"Ika-chan" also wants to honestly conquer the surface world and nicely enslave mankind. She has tried to innocently kill everyone in the Lemon. She's just too dim-witted to accomplish any of these objectives.

In spite of all this, the restaurant girls feed her, house her, and take care of her. They even threw her a birthday party. They're not afraid of her because she's so stupid you could catch her on a fishing line with a bit of shrimp as bait.

Everybody works for their keep at the Lemon. And what good is having a pet if you can't play with it a little without the SPCA coming after you? She is not human.
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Old 2010-11-08, 04:00   Link #411
risingstar3110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drobertbaker View Post
"Ika-chan" also wants to honestly conquer the surface world and nicely enslave mankind. She has tried to innocently kill everyone in the Lemon. She's just too dim-witted to accomplish any of these objectives.

In spite of all this, the restaurant girls feed her, house her, and take care of her. They even threw her a birthday party. They're not afraid of her because she's so stupid you could catch her on a fishing line with a bit of shrimp as bait.

Everybody works for their keep at the Lemon. And what good is having a pet if you can't play with it a little without the SPCA coming after you? She is not human.
Her objective to enslave human is pure through (protect the sea and eat shrimp) and i do not believe that she tried to kill anyone there

She also can live fine by herself (don't need anyone to feed or house her), and was only stuck there (up to this point) because she have to work to pay for the damage and do her part as sea protector. And while the thought of Ika becomes Eiko's pet is quite tempting (in a perverted way), i refuse to see her anything lower than human species!!
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Old 2010-11-08, 04:06   Link #412
MeoTwister5
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With this I must reiterate my previous question:

Do you call social services or report this to PETA?
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Old 2010-11-08, 04:14   Link #413
winkel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drobertbaker View Post
In spite of all this, the restaurant girls feed her, house her, and take care of her. They even threw her a birthday party. They're not afraid of her because she's so stupid you could catch her on a fishing line with a bit of shrimp as bait.
They also abuse her powers, milk her for her ink until she's dry every single day, physically abuse her and her tentacles, starve her overnight, take advantage of her naivete, attempt to rape her, make fun of her, and traumatize her psychologically.

If those are traits that 'normal' humans beings are supposed have, then I would rather be a squid.
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Old 2010-11-08, 04:33   Link #414
drobertbaker
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Well maybe you'd better go with the squid thing then, because humans have certainly done all those things to me and everyone I know (except for the ink milking, and I'm sure they would do that if they could). If you were a squid they would just try to eat you.

As discussed, it is a comedy that walks a fine line and has brought out emotions that have bothered some viewers.
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Last edited by drobertbaker; 2010-11-08 at 14:01.
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Old 2010-11-08, 05:07   Link #415
Lord of Fire
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Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
With this I must reiterate my previous question:

Do you call social services or report this to PETA?
PETA would burn the restaurant down and make up stuff like Ika's ink being poisonous for human consumption (even though people were fine eating it before) or that she's dying because she's not in the water (she's been doing just fine without it, though).

And social services would take her away and lock her up in an orphanage/place her in a foster home or call the FBI, claiming she's an alien. And if the recent episode is anything to go by, that last would probably not end well for Ika.
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Old 2010-11-08, 05:26   Link #416
risingstar3110
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I just want to remind that there 's probably no squid girl who was abused in the making of this anime. So it's all about how we see the issues and our stance of what's justified (or not).

And unless we drop further debate now, i would like to see whether you all think of Ika-chan as a human being or species in the same level to human, and therefore should receive the same rights/ treatment as human?

I for one of course do think she is
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Old 2010-11-08, 06:08   Link #417
quasar_z
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The beginning of an invasion de geso!
http://d.imagehost.org/0458/ika.jpg
http://www.group-finity.com/Shimeji/...2_Ultimate.zip

http://a-draw.com/up/download/1289138629.zip
password: ika

replace img folder from the second link
run Shimeji.exe
-------------------------------
the taskbar option (right click the icon in the tray.)

first option adds another Ika.
second option makes them all go to your mouse.
third option makes all but one Ika disappear.
fourth option returns your web browser if the Ikas steal it.
last option closes the program.
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Old 2010-11-08, 06:35   Link #418
Lord of Fire
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Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
I just want to remind that there 's probably no squid girl who was abused in the making of this anime. So it's all about how we see the issues and our stance of what's justified (or not).
Well, if you ever happen to find a squid girl for real, let me know.

Quote:
And unless we drop further debate now, i would like to see whether you all think of Ika-chan as a human being or species in the same level to human, and therefore should receive the same rights/ treatment as human?

I for one of course do think she is
You mean they don't treat her like a human being already?

She's being fed, she has shelter (especially now that it seems as if Eiko lets her stay at her home) and they're not treating her as some sort of pet. Plus, most people talk to her like they would to any human being.

For any abuse she's going through, she has herself to blame. Starving overnight? Don't go raiding the ridge for a midnight snack then. Find your work to be labor-intensive? Don't go destroying other people's property then. I know she feels that same thing regarding humans and the sea, but until she becomes a real threat to humankind, they will only see her as a strange, but cute girl with special powers and treat her as such. And as for the psychological torture, she'd do the same if she had the power to do that (and in Nagisa's eyes, she already does).

Edit: Of course, none of this all matters, because this is anime and not the real world.
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Old 2010-11-08, 07:31   Link #419
risingstar3110
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Originally Posted by Lord of Fire View Post
Well, if you ever happen to find a squid girl for real, let me know.

You mean they don't treat her like a human being already?

She's being fed, she has shelter (especially now that it seems as if Eiko lets her stay at her home) and they're not treating her as some sort of pet. Plus, most people talk to her like they would to any human being.

For any abuse she's going through, she has herself to blame. Starving overnight? Don't go raiding the ridge for a midnight snack then. Find your work to be labor-intensive? Don't go destroying other people's property then. I know she feels that same thing regarding humans and the sea, but until she becomes a real threat to humankind, they will only see her as a strange, but cute girl with special powers and treat her as such. And as for the psychological torture, she'd do the same if she had the power to do that (and in Nagisa's eyes, she already does).

Edit: Of course, none of this all matters, because this is anime and not the real world.
That's the first step to confirm in our debate ~degeso

The problem is if we think her as human, and considering her mental age, I don't think it's right to leave her facing the full consequence of her actions. You may force an orphan kid to work for the damage which she caused, but you can't just let her working for you without a guardian. If Eikou decide to be one, then she must have the responsibility to take care of her and at least satisfy her request for safety, a home or essential needs

Ika is pretty much just like a foreign kid who is not used to the responsibility of Japanese society. And i bet we all think it's morally wrong if a foreign kid is reported to left staying back and guarding the beach house at night, and forbidden (threaten with violence in fact) from food source, while have to work for an unknown amount of time without any actual formal contracts or minimum wages. It's all bureaucratic, but it's there for a reason. And even without them, considering the treatment Ika receiving (during 1st few episodes) to Kana in Kanamemo. They are quite a degree of difference.

To a more serious tone, this kind of mistreatment is actually normal around the world, and in fact worse in many places by many times. But i want us to morally acknowledge that it should not be left to be so. And i heard that Eikou is actually nicer to Ika in the manga, so i don't think she should find any places any time soon
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Old 2010-11-08, 09:19   Link #420
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
I just want to remind that there 's probably no squid girl who was abused in the making of this anime. So it's all about how we see the issues and our stance of what's justified (or not).

And unless we drop further debate now, i would like to see whether you all think of Ika-chan as a human being or species in the same level to human, and therefore should receive the same rights/ treatment as human?

I for one of course do think she is
I'm seeing the sort of legal weirdness thinking in some posts that would claim Spock has no rights because he isn't homo sapiens. The court trial would be fascinating but I think only excessively human-centric belief systems are in any conundrum about it.

The idealistic part of Japanese culture includes some level of respect to be given not only humans but other sentient things (or things-that-move). Its also idealistic that if someone breaks something, they are honor-bound to find some way to compensate for it. That's about as deep as the series gets -- no more deep than ALF or My Favorite Martian.
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