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Old 2010-05-20, 10:42   Link #61
HayashiTakara
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
In regards to Wii... really now, if it is really twice as powerful as the Gamecube, it does not show it as games STILL looks like shit on my friend's HDTV when I play his Wii over at his house. Almost as crap as PS2/Gamecube games when shown on HDTV. I honestly can't play the likes of Brawl or Tatsunoko vs Capcom without thinking... "Man, this looks almost as bad as last generation."

Maybe the limitations of its 480p output? I dunno if that's it for sure, but I'm so spoiled with seeing at least 720 that I reckon that might be the reason. Sounds like a bottleneck to me there.
The reason why it looks "bad" on HDTV's is because the console only runs on 480p with component cables. It won't look good on a HDTV. It actually looks cleaner on a standard television. There are third party devices you can connect to the wii to allow cleaner upscale to higher resolution, it's around 70 - 80 bucks if I remember correctly.

Understand the way hardware works before saying this and that.
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Old 2010-05-20, 14:21   Link #62
serenade_beta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
In regards to Wii... really now, if it is really twice as powerful as the Gamecube, it does not show it as games STILL looks like shit on my friend's HDTV when I play his Wii over at his house. Almost as crap as PS2/Gamecube games when shown on HDTV. I honestly can't play the likes of Brawl or Tatsunoko vs Capcom without thinking... "Man, this looks almost as bad as last generation."
1. Leave the bragging over tragic life stories to AB.
2. If you want to prove something, use facts (not opinions or by acting like an esper). In this case, bring up the specs and prove to everyone the Wii has the same specs as the GC and PS2
3. You have my condolences if you suffer when you see "bad graphics". Plenty of old games that are great without oh-my-god pretty graphics, but you can't even enjoy those after all...
4.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
Understand the way hardware works before saying this and that.
THIS.
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Old 2010-05-20, 19:15   Link #63
HayashiTakara
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Old 2010-05-21, 03:06   Link #64
Sides
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
Maybe the limitations of its 480p output? I dunno if that's it for sure, but I'm so spoiled with seeing at least 720 that I reckon that might be the reason. Sounds like a bottleneck to me there.
The Wii has the same EFB size as the gamecube, i.e. 2MB, so it won't be able to squeeze out anything higher than 480p.
Maybe get a proper TV or scaler. But honestly 720p/1080p or 480p, i don't think the resolution makes a game look bad or good. Besides most HDTV do a lot of filtering, making things you see onscreen unnatrual in the first place, i.e oversharpen images, unnatrual colours, etc.
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Old 2010-05-21, 06:37   Link #65
HayashiTakara
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Your friend is probably using standard 480i AV cables, making the images extremely ugly on an HDTV. If he forked out the 20 bucks for component cables, it'd display much cleaner in comparison.

There's some pretty good upscalers out there. I remember seeing an image comparison for Monster Hunter. It had 3 of the same image but in different cables.
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Old 2010-05-21, 06:47   Link #66
DragoonKain3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayashi
It actually looks cleaner on a standard television. There are third party devices you can connect to the wii to allow cleaner upscale to higher resolution, it's around 70 - 80 bucks if I remember correctly.
My friend is actually very much pickier about graphics than I am, so he actually has one connected already, as he uses the same for his DVD player if I'm not mistaken.

Quote:
Understand the way hardware works before saying this and that.
I don't understand what you're trying to say. I need to understand exactly how hardware works to make an observation that Wii games look more or less like the last generation on HDTVs?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Serenade_Beta
1. Leave the bragging over tragic life stories to AB.
I was bragging? o_O

Quote:
f you want to prove something, use facts (not opinions or by acting like an esper). In this case, bring up the specs and prove to everyone the Wii has the same specs as the GC and PS2
Did I say that the Wii has the same specs as GC/PS2? All I said was that Wii games look almost as bad as GC/PS2.

Quote:
You have my condolences if you suffer when you see "bad graphics". Plenty of old games that are great without oh-my-god pretty graphics, but you can't even enjoy those after all...
You're talking to one of the people who played The Last Remnant downscaled to 480p on the 360, just so it can run faster. Seriously, I'm not one of those people who value graphics over gameplay.

That said, I'm not going to lie and say that Wii games look beautiful either. >_>



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sides
But honestly 720p/1080p or 480p, i don't think the resolution makes a game look bad or good.
If this was the case, people wouldn't be spending 400 bucks or more for bleeding edge graphics cards just so they can have certain PC games still playable at higher resolutions. Or people won't be downloading 720p/1080p versions of anime when a 480p version is a shorter download. Or people wouldn't be upgrading their DVD library into Blu-ray now.

So yes, while resolution by themselves don't make games look bad or good, there's a limitation on how good a game can look at lower resolutions.
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Old 2010-05-21, 08:22   Link #67
HayashiTakara
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I don't download higher res anime and I refuse to pay 10 dollars extra for a blue-ray disc.

If your friend is using the "same kind of cables" as a DVD player than it's the standard AV output, which means sucky resolution. Next time you should take a look yourself. It's standard If you see the Yellow, White and Red, ( you can tell if it's the stock cable if it's the gray cords ) So far all the third party cables I've seen (and what I have) are black cables. Component cables will have Blue and Green channels in addition to the red, yellow and white.

Anyway, at the end of the day it all depends on the developer on how well they understand the hardware. Some are able to put out great looking games, some don't. Considering the size of XenoBlade, opting for lower quality characters in return for a smoother game and larger world is a trade-off. Sometimes this route needs to be taken.
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Old 2010-05-21, 08:50   Link #68
Westlo
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Yes you need component cables to use a Wii on a HD tv period, shit looks awful without it. My TvC experience went like this..

Went to shop to buy TvC
Saw how horrible it looked, turned that shit off and went to buy component cables
Looked much better, started playing, Gamecube dpad sucks ass, nearly as bad as the 360 dpad.
Went to shop to buy classic controller.

Considering how crap online is I probably should've gone back to get an ethernet adapter or whatever, but like that makes a difference when 99% of Wii users are on wireless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sides View Post
But honestly 720p/1080p or 480p, i don't think the resolution makes a game look bad or good. Besides most HDTV do a lot of filtering, making things you see onscreen unnatrual in the first place, i.e oversharpen images, unnatrual colours, etc.
When SFIV drops from 720p to 580 it's noticeable for me on my Pana plasma. FFXIII looks noticeably better on my ps3 and likewise with Red Dead Redemption for the 360.
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Old 2010-05-21, 13:05   Link #69
Benoit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3
In regards to Wii... really now, if it is really twice as powerful as the Gamecube, it does not show it as games STILL looks like shit on my friend's HDTV when I play his Wii over at his house. Almost as crap as PS2/Gamecube games when shown on HDTV.
What you're seeing is typical LCD screen behaviour. LCD screens have a native resolution, which for HDTVs is either 1280720 or 19201080. The Wii and last-gen consoles output a video resolution of 640x480. In order to display this video signal, the HDTV has to upscale the image to its native resolution. Upscaling techniques used by TVs vary, and it often leads to a more or less blurry picture that looks like it was smeared with vaseline. Additionally, if your console is outputting an interlaced signal, the resulting image might be even worse because it has to reconstruct each frame before displaying it as the LCD only supports progressive signals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sides
The Wii has the same EFB size as the gamecube, i.e. 2MB, so it won't be able to squeeze out anything higher than 480p.
Actually, it can output higher resolutions than 640x480. It just won't be able to do it well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain
My friend is actually very much pickier about graphics than I am, so he actually has one connected already, as he uses the same for his DVD player if I'm not mistaken.
Yet he uses an LCD HDTV for his Wii? *hangs head*

If you want to be picky about your Wii experience, you buy a VGA cable for your Wii and use it to connect it to a CRT monitor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo
Looked much better, started playing, Gamecube dpad sucks ass, nearly as bad as the 360 dpad.
Why did you use the D-pad? Use the analog stick.
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Old 2010-05-21, 13:11   Link #70
Westlo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benoit View Post
Why did you use the D-pad? Use the analog stick.
lol analog stick, that's cute.
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Old 2010-05-21, 14:22   Link #71
serenade_beta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
Did I say that the Wii has the same specs as GC/PS2? All I said was that Wii games look almost as bad as GC/PS2.
Oh yeah, you said it. If you try to play with words and say you did not say it, you still definitely meant it, doubting that it was twice as strong as the GC or calling it a repackaged GC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
You're talking to one of the people who played The Last Remnant downscaled to 480p on the 360, just so it can run faster. Seriously, I'm not one of those people who value graphics over gameplay.

That said, I'm not going to lie and say that Wii games look beautiful either. >_>
If ya' say so.
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Old 2010-05-21, 19:36   Link #72
DragoonKain3
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@Hayashi

I looked at it again, and what I wrote was right. He was using component cables (5 cables total, 3 being video, no?) to connect to a box thingie (he called it an upscaler... was it the gizmo you've talked about before?), which connects to his HDTV. It also has multiple input connections, as he has his DVD player connecting to it (3 cables, only 1 being video), and he can switch it from DVD to Wii, depending on which one he wants to use.


@Benoit

Well, he's also a hardcore Zelda fan, and only bought the Wii in hopes of playing one. Still no luck there though, and I tease him occasionally that he spent money for nothing LOL.

Still, he says it's still worth the money since he gets to play exclusives like Brawl, Tatsunoko vs Capcom, Mario Kart, that one Tales game whose name I can't remember (seriously, they have too many to memorize), Fire Emblem, etc.

In any case, he'll take what he can get, and try to make the best out of it. That's why he spent good money to get these gizmos. Hayashi said that the gizmo is 80 bucks... my friend says he bought his for like 400 bucks, but granted, that was a few years ago. It might have very dropped to 80 by now, considering how technology drops in price as the years goes along.

Still think it's a waste of money (that 400 could've gone to a PS3, the only system he doesn't own for example), since it's still quite obvious that you're still playing a 480p game. He himself doesn't think so, as he's just getting ready his Wii to be the best it can be once the new Zelda is coming out. (It is coming out, right?)


Quote:
Originally Posted by serenade_beta View Post
Oh yeah, you said it. If you try to play with words and say you did not say it, you still definitely meant it, doubting that it was twice as strong as the GC or calling it a repackaged GC.
You mean this...?

"Wii is just pretty much a repackaged Gamecube. And Gamecube games, while it did look better, was not a distinct 'upgrade' when compared to the PS2."

Only an idiot would take 'repackaged Gamecube' to meaning 'more or less specs as Gamecube', when all I talked about before and after that quote was about the graphics period.

Seriously, if there's one thing I've learned from video card shopping, its that its not the specific specs that matter, but what the end result looks and play like. Like how the Radeon HD 4870 looks like it can beat the 8800 GT on paper, but still falls a bit short of it both on quality and FPS. (Thank God ATI now has their act together and their 5870 now smokes every singe-card option Nvidia has to offer, so now we have actual competition to drive prices down, but that's neither here nor there.)

Similarly, I could care less if Wii is 1.5x, 2x, or 3x stronger than the GC. It still looks more or less the same as the GC on HDTVs, hi-tech gizmos or whatnot. As such, I'm really not hoping/expecting graphics in Xenoblade to be leaps and bounds better than what has been shown for games in GC/PS2/XBox.

I would STILL buy it though, and the Wii, once it comes to it. That's just how strong my shipping tendencies are lol.
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Old 2010-05-21, 21:20   Link #73
serenade_beta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
You mean this...?

"Wii is just pretty much a repackaged Gamecube. And Gamecube games, while it did look better, was not a distinct 'upgrade' when compared to the PS2."

Only an idiot would take 'repackaged Gamecube' to meaning 'more or less specs as Gamecube', when all I talked about before and after that quote was about the graphics period.
Right... (;;;-_-)
You just keep saying that. Maybe it will come true one day.
As of present day, what you said most certainly could be taken that way. AND, you were definitely talking about the specs when you began talking about how powerful it was visually.

Quote:
Seriously, if there's one thing I've learned from video card shopping, its that its not the specific specs that matter, but what the end result looks and play like. Like how the Radeon HD 4870 looks like it can beat the 8800 GT on paper, but still falls a bit short of it both on quality and FPS. (Thank God ATI now has their act together and their 5870 now smokes every singe-card option Nvidia has to offer, so now we have actual competition to drive prices down, but that's neither here nor there.)
Un-huh...
In other words, it isn't Nintendo's/Wii's problem, but yours for playing it on that HDTV.

Quote:
Similarly, I could care less if Wii is 1.5x, 2x, or 3x stronger than the GC. It still looks more or less the same as the GC on HDTVs, hi-tech gizmos or whatnot. As such, I'm really not hoping/expecting graphics in Xenoblade to be leaps and bounds better than what has been shown for games in GC/PS2/XBox.
Just take the advice given by past posters and get some device or cable to help you on that, instead of practically diving into a fire after being warned and then blaming others for your injury.
...Oh! Good comparison, if I do say so myself. Need to memo this down in case I encounter someone like this again...


PS:
Umm?! Come to think of it, the thread has been going off-topic from Xenoblade... *cough* Now then, back to talking about Xenoblade for me.
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Old 2010-05-22, 03:58   Link #74
Sides
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Massive update in some sections, i.e. System, trailers, on the Official HP.
Looks like putting some equipment on will affect the looks of the characters.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
Similarly, I could care less if Wii is 1.5x, 2x, or 3x stronger than the GC. It still looks more or less the same as the GC on HDTVs, hi-tech gizmos or whatnot. As such, I'm really not hoping/expecting graphics in Xenoblade to be leaps and bounds better than what has been shown for games in GC/PS2/XBox.

I would STILL buy it though, and the Wii, once it comes to it. That's just how strong my shipping tendencies are lol.
To be fair this game has proper grass, so it is already much better than most games from last gen or even this one.
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Old 2010-05-22, 09:50   Link #75
Benoit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3
Still think it's a waste of money (that 400 could've gone to a PS3, the only system he doesn't own for example), since it's still quite obvious that you're still playing a 480p game. He himself doesn't think so, as he's just getting ready his Wii to be the best it can be once the new Zelda is coming out. (It is coming out, right?)
As I've explained, he's doing it wrong. All he's doing is messing up the picture.

A VGA cable only costs 40 bucks (always has, as far as I know). You can get a CRT monitor for free as people can't get rid of them.
Quote:
Similarly, I could care less if Wii is 1.5x, 2x, or 3x stronger than the GC. It still looks more or less the same as the GC on HDTVs, hi-tech gizmos or whatnot. As such, I'm really not hoping/expecting graphics in Xenoblade to be leaps and bounds better than what has been shown for games in GC/PS2/XBox.
I've already explained at length why this is a flawed argument. Repeating it won't make it a good one. LCD HDTVs suck for any video signal that isn't HD, and that's the fault of the TV, not the game console.
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Old 2010-05-26, 15:43   Link #76
Sides
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New PV is on on the official hp, showing some in game battles and how equipment changes the look of the characters. Surprisingly it looks like the framerate is quite solid.
Over on andriasang, there is great description about the recently disclosed feature of this game/title.

Last edited by Sides; 2010-05-27 at 11:57.
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Old 2010-05-31, 10:24   Link #77
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New TVCM up and hp updated. Lets get hyped.
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Old 2010-05-31, 13:54   Link #78
HayashiTakara
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sides View Post
New TVCM up and hp updated. Lets get hyped.
woo that's hot
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Old 2010-06-02, 06:22   Link #79
Westlo
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Man pretty awesome that Yoko Shimomura is the main composer for this... Kingdom Hearts BBS already out this year with Xenoblade, Last Ranker, The 3rd Birthday and maybe FFXIII Versus to come.. busy girl.

Just wished Capcom gets her back for whenever they do Street Fighter V, her SF2 tunes are legendary.
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Old 2010-06-02, 20:46   Link #80
Angelic Cross
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Trailer 4: The Abyss. The trailer's low quality, though.
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