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Old 2009-09-16, 09:41   Link #1081
DragoZERO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
hmm about effort, hmm..i have to say I hate Junpei to the gut....that guy makes no effort at all whatsoever...he is probably one of most pathetic male hero from all the romance mangas that I have ever read (compared to I"s, suzuka, a town where you live, Video AI, etc)..but then again, high school students should focus more about their dreams I guess, but I just can't stand that guy...if the girls have to make the effort, why not the main hero also...he is just standing there waiting girls to feed food into his mouth...(did I cross the line here?? )
While he did bother me a little, he did act when he needed to. Should he have done more? Hell yes! But if he had done more it would have, realistically speaking, hook up with each of the girls or at least date them all for a short period of time and no one would have liked that. Its really a tough call when it comes to a manga where we know the author was pressured with a weekly deadline. And it wasn't until the end that a lot of the symbolism and other effects returned to the manga too. And the more I think about.. the more circles I make. lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiroth View Post
You've basically summed up my thoughts perfectly with this post. Tsukasa was always true to herself, and her own feelings. That is not we thinking that, it's a shown fact in the story.
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Old 2009-09-16, 09:44   Link #1082
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I personally think that Satsuki was trying just as hard, she just didn't click with Junpei, which is a shame, because all 3 girls were very much in love with him.
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Old 2009-09-16, 13:11   Link #1083
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Originally Posted by BetoJR View Post
The key point is: you think. Just as some of us also think he did choose Nishino fair and square, not simply because of that misunderstanding. And, let's face it, most of those who have such differing opinions won't ever agree on this.
You're definitely right there.It is because of the existence of different opinions that makes what the world is today in terms of development or civilization therefore, I see it as a very good thing to have different views and opinions concerning a subject.

Last edited by peerless; 2009-09-16 at 13:45.
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Old 2009-09-16, 13:35   Link #1084
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Originally Posted by ShootingStars View Post
he made up his mind in 152? its obviously an excuse to himself because he can't really go back after what he said... that's what I think... it would of took A LOT of courage to go back what he said ._. ... Nishino would probably never talk to him again if he said he loved Toujou after saying he loved her for good.... maybe he was afraid to lose a 1st love/great friend

scenario: Junpei knew the brother WAY before with no hassle, he'd still be with Toujou - if Toujou was going to going to leave him first, he'd probably want to keep her "safe" over Nishino (chapter 153 p.7)... circumstances

the moment he thought brother was a BF, in his mind Toujou was TAKEN and he tried to remain from thinking about her since she had a BF because stealing a girl from her BF is just not right... seriously (I've been here... lol >_>). with that mindset he was set dead lock on Nishino, and due to the time difference at that point he Toujou was probably 10% in his mind at the time while Nishino turned into 90%, and therefore Nishino won the battle
Yeah that is what really makes Junpei such an interesting and odd character.
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Old 2009-10-19, 05:02   Link #1085
Lolicon23
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Haiz

The Ending is a bit disappointing though.cant figure out why manaka dont wanna chase his dreams anymore.he should have chose toujo also.since toujo is the one who shares the same dreams with him from the start of this manga and was the one who support him for everything like the time where toujo tutor him for izumizaka high...
well,anything.Nice manga though.8/10.
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Old 2009-10-22, 05:30   Link #1086
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolicon23 View Post
The Ending is a bit disappointing though.cant figure out why manaka dont wanna chase his dreams anymore.he should have chose toujo also.since toujo is the one who shares the same dreams with him from the start of this manga and was the one who support him for everything like the time where toujo tutor him for izumizaka high...
well,anything.Nice manga though.8/10.

Toujo and Manaka doesnt share a dream, it was Manaka's dream and Toujo just helped him. Toujo never had a dream in the beginning. And while Aya did tutor Manaka in the beginning, she left him because of the underwear incident and after that, it was Tsukasa who helped Manaka in his studies if you remember. I cant figure out why you are saying Manaka gave up on his dreams? On the contrary, Manaka travelled the whole world in order to succeed in his dreams and he made a movie with his own abilities, got awarded for it and got invited into joining a well-reputed film-production company. So what exactly gave you the idea he gave up on his dreams? What makes you think he should have chosen Toujo? Tsukasa did alot more for him than Toujo did. All Toujo did was confuse Junpei more by firing alot of mixed signals. While Manaka genuinly grew to love Tsukasa as the manga progressed.

Some people say, that Aya's one misunderstanding made Junpei choose, well all I have to say is Aya is the very epitome of misunderstandings and why I say she doesnt deserve Manaka as much as Tsukasa. Here's what I am talking about ----

Its not about the story being boring or not your point of discussion was if it was Aya's fault or not right? I said its Aya's fault because in this manga Aya did nothing to confess even when she had the chance and she NEEDED to confess, because in the manga, Junpei already is loved by other girls and is confused about his feelings so Aya had to tell him directly or give out some big hints. Like Tsukasa kept giving both subtle and big hints throughout the manga with her actions and words, that assured Manaka that she loved him even if Tsukasa only confessed at the end. Aya's feelings were never that openly displayed, and on the contrary she confused him alot for example ----
she stopped talking to him at the end of their middle school year, got mad at him when she joined the literature club, told him would go to the same college but then deciding not to go to the same college without telling him why, asking him to go on a date with Kozue, going to the cram school with Amachi and lastly going to the festval with her brother. So please do tell me even if other people like Ookusa, Sotomura said she liked him, aren't these actions of Aya herself enough to confuse and give mixed vibes to Junpei? Aya would act passionately once and give Junpei the cold-shoulder in the next. I agree that she would give some hints that would say Aya loved him but then she would act like what I have said to confuse him. So no matter what other people say if the persons involved themselves give rise to questions like these through their misleading words and actions and on top of that doesn't confess, who is the one more at fault? these are the places that are enough to confuse Junpei, so please go through them and compare her actions with Tsukasa who always showed her love in all forms to Junpei. here----

http://www.onemanga.com/Ichigo_100/12/01/(she never explained her actions and completly shut herself off from Junpei without explaining why)
http://www.onemanga.com/Ichigo_100/25/08/ (have you ever seen Tsukasa make a face like that, even when she was Junpei's girlfriend and Junpei and Aya would get all friendly right in front of Tsukasa?)
http://www.onemanga.com/Ichigo_100/24/15/ (have you seen Tsukasa get mad like that)
http://www.onemanga.com/Ichigo_100/33/07/ (why bring up Tsukasa's cooking)
http://www.onemanga.com/Ichigo_100/109/13/ (confused Manaka because of Amachi and Aya)
http://www.onemanga.com/Ichigo_100/135/06/ (was cruel because she knew how much Manaka was looking forward to make movies with her in college)
http://www.onemanga.com/Ichigo_100/118/03/ (seriously is she for real)
http://www.onemanga.com/Ichigo_100/118/05/ (the result of all her mixed signals)
And everybody knows about her brother incident so no links

Besides, Toujo and Manaka were always awkward around each other. Toujo never knew Manaka outside his world of movies and novels, while Tsukasa knew everything about Junpei, not just movies and novels. It doesnt take an expert to realise which of the two girls he had more fun with. Although Aya's quantity of time spent with Manaka were more compared to Tsukasa, Tsukasa's quality of time spent with Manaka were much higher compared to Aya....Also as for Manaka not being close to Nishino and not having enough bond. Besides you have to admit and see how much more fun Manaka and Nishino had on their dates, whereas, Manaka and Aya, all they ever talked about were movies and more movies, and then there would be awkward silence. Actually I can't remeber any significant AyaxJunpei moment. Also I think Nishino and Junpei had enough build as much as Aya through out the story. But I can give you quite a few sweet NishinoxJunpei moments. Here are some moments ------

notice the difference between the quality of Junpei x Nishino moments, compared to the Aya x Junpei moments. You just have to look at how many times Nishino and Manaka spent their nights together and they werent forced to spend the night due to rain or getting lost. Manaka obviously had alot more fun with Nishino on dates you just have to look at their date in the festival during their 3-day trip. Manaka, who is naturally a bit introverted and doesnt much like to do anything exciting, it is only with Nishino that he plays pranks like putting seaweed over his head, Junpei suggesting they go on a date during their school trip while breaking quite a few school rules, has a snowball fight in the middle of the night, taking on a bunch of big guys for Nishino's sake. The normal Manaka would never do those things especially not with someone boring as Aya, Nishino is the only girl who makes him act that way.
Nishino was the first girl to fall in love with Manaka even before Aya, when she explained her reason for answering Manaka's confession positively. See what Nishino means to Manaka and how close she got to Manaka's heart.
These are the best scenes which shows Manaka's growing genuine love for Nishino and his growing respect for her, his increasing awareness of how she always pulls him up, how much seeing her means to him, how much he came to care for her feelings,how priceless her smile is to him. So although Junpei fell in love with Aya on first sight, it was Nishino who he grew to genuinly love while his love for Aya remained in the same place------

http://www.onemanga.com/Ichigo_100/79/18/ (that shows how attuned Nishino was to Manaka's thought that she had absolute trust that Manaka would keep his promise)
http://www.onemanga.com/Ichigo_100/74/14/ (shows how Nishino was always there to support Manaka)
http://www.onemanga.com/Ichigo_100/80/17/ (tells Manaka why she agreed to go out with him taking away his inferiority complex as Manaka always felt insecure thinking that a cute girl like Nishino only agreed on a whim and would dump him any time)
http://www.onemanga.com/Ichigo_100/88/20-21/
http://www.onemanga.com/Ichigo_100/107/19/
http://www.onemanga.com/Ichigo_100/112/13/
http://www.onemanga.com/Ichigo_100/123/13/


People frequently bring up that Aya apparently sacrificed more for Junpei. I dont quite see what she actually sacrificed other than following Junpei to the same highschool? I refuse/disagree with most people about Aya's so-called sacrifice when she chose to go to a lower-ranked school with Manaka, as I think it had more to do with Aya's dependence/convinience with Manaka and less to do with sacrificing for Manaka's sake because Aya thought if she became seperated from Manaka she would revert back to her old personality and lose sight of the wrld that Manaka showed her because Manaka was her confidence and so Aya was overly dependent on Manaka as without Manaka even if Aya went to Oumi High, her talent for writing would've most likely remained undiscovered as Aya would'nt have the courage to explore her own skills and she most likely would have persued a purely academic career like become a doctor/engineer but definitely not a writer, in short Aya went to Izumisaka mainly becaue she was dependent on Manaka completely and it had very little to do with helping Manaka. I think Nishino was the one who made the bigger sacrifice out of the two girls by choosing to throw away her dreams/wish to study in the same highschoool as Manaka, so that Manaka had a bigger chance of being admitted and to find a dream of her own in order to gain Manaka's respect and deciding to go to Oumi High a decision that Tsukasa HAD to make and this decision cost Tsukasa alot of regrets as seen several times throughout the manga, where Tsukasa stated her frustration, sadness and regret of not being there with Manaka in the same school but sadly alot of Aya fans fail to see this and one of the points they bring up to show that Aya was more deserving to have won Junpei's heart is apparently because Aya made more sacrifices for Junpei compared to Nishino
Nishino's wish and the reason she worked so hard, a late-riser like her used to get up at 5:30 in the morning so that she could study and get into the same school as her boyfriend --- http://www.onemanga.com/Ichigo_100/2/09/
http://www.onemanga.com/Ichigo_100/2/13/
(Nishimo denied herself all these if she wanted to survive and gain Manaka's respect while posing a challenge to Aya and to give Manaka a better chance of being admitted into the school of his dreams she made a hard decision which shows her strong will but does anybody sympathise with the pain she had to go through while making that decision? I daresay it was difficult decision and we cant really blame ourselves as even Manaka himself was taken in by her strong-front and didnt give Tsukasa enough sympathy thinking she was strong enough to deal with it when in reality, it was a regret and pain that she carried on throughout her whole school-life as seen here---

Nishino's regrets(overlooked by most people because they were subtle and not as blatantly obvious as Aya's sad faces or meek nature/gestures) ---- http://www.onemanga.com/Ichigo_100/85/17( most readers are taken in by the bright smile she puts up to cover her sadness like in the left-hand corner panel in the page and thinks Nishino is totally fine and strong but now...Manaka can kind of see-through Nishino's smile and can relate to her pain...which BTW, shows how close they've become)
http://www.onemanga.com/Ichigo_100/148/16/ (and finally Junpei fully realises Nishino's regret of going to seperate schools)
but these gestures of Nishino's are always subtle, or she expresses them subtly with words like the time when she failed to get the main prize she was aiming for and she said some meaningful words and also how subtly she conveyed her feelings for Junpei and her regret for the break-up conveyed subtly with some meaningful words when they were stuck together in the burning Karaoke room to Junpei which subtly conveyed her regrets to him but these are too subtle for Nishino to gain enough sympathy that would be enough to compete against all the sympathy Aya gets from her obvious natural display of helplessness and meekness. However, for me the beauty of Nishino lies in her subtlety and her attempt to always remain strong, bright and cheerful while concealing her pains which sometimes eventually do burst through with the rare sad expressions and her sad play on words despite her best attempts to remain strong infront of Junpei like her confession to Ookusa about her feelings which put her hurt in the open but infront of Manaka she presented a calm and cllected demeanour which is the total opposite of Aya.


So please tell me exactly what makes Aya more deserving than Nishino?
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Last edited by Dark Mage; 2009-10-22 at 09:35.
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Old 2009-10-22, 05:51   Link #1087
Waven
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It's not like sharing the same dream or even having many similarities is really a requirement for a healthy relationship. No, when it comes to relationships (real and fictional) 'opposites atract' is as valid as 'birds of a feather flock together'
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Old 2009-10-22, 07:46   Link #1088
DragoZERO
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Originally Posted by Dark Mage View Post
Toujo and Manaka doesnt share a dream, it was Manaka's dream and Toujo just helped him. Toujo never had a dream in the beginning. And while Aya did tutor Manaka in the beginning, she left him because of the underwear incident and after that, it was Tsukasa who helped Manaka in his studies if you remember. I cant figure out why you are saying Manaka gave up on his dreams? On the contrary, Manaka travelled the whole world in order to succeed in his dreams and he made a movie with his own abilities, got awarded for it and got invited into joining a well-reputed film-production company. So what exactly gave you the idea he gave up on his dreams? What makes you think he should have chosen Toujo? Tsukasa did alot more for him than Toujo did. All Toujo did was confuse Junpei more by firing alot of mixed signals. While Manaka genuinly grew to love Tsukasa as the manga progressed.
Spoiler for Loooong post.:



So please tell me exactly what makes Aya more deserving than Nishino?
Very, very good. I don't think he will be able to counter that, that is if he ever comes back. People should learn not to bad mouth Tsukasa in front of you,

On a side note, I find mangafox to be a better site since it zooms in on two page images.
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Old 2009-10-22, 09:10   Link #1089
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i may be wrong but Manaka bought birthday present only to Tsukasa and none to Aya or Satsuki and all the present were bond to strawberry
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Old 2009-10-22, 09:59   Link #1090
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wow how long does it take for you to type that up Dark Mage?? Unfortunately, I don't have time to read your post in detail...I will do it in christmas break lol...Even tho I don't have time to read your post yet, I would think your post is really good for others to develop new/other idea about this manga..

As an Aya fan, I am eager to read and counter, but I will have to save it to Christmas XD..and as a reader, I say none of the girls are at fault...it's that damn male lead who commits sin after sin throughout the manga
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Old 2009-10-22, 10:57   Link #1091
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As someone who actually did have lots of reservations about some of Manaka's actions, I'd just like to point out - to anyone who might not see it - that a relationship is built by (at least) two people. No matter how much one of them wants it, if the other does not, it's likely that it won't come to fruition.

Some people tend to forget that, even in highly specialized mediums and genres, like what pertains this story...
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Old 2009-10-22, 11:26   Link #1092
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Exactly! A relationship is built by two people and you can see the gradual developing relation and love between Manaka and Nishino as they came to understand each other more and more throughout the manga, there was nothing they they didnt know about the other, it was all a steady process, not something that came about suddenly. Sure Manaka was attracted by Nishino's looks at first but later on, especially after their break-up, Nishino slowly became someone irreplaceable to Manaka due to her character/personality. If you looked properly after Nishino's return into the Manaka's life, the focus subtly but surely shifted from Aya to Nishino and her relation to Manaka and that relation just kept getting more and more focus whereas Aya kept getting less and less time with Manaka. But with Aya there was barely any development in her relationship with Manaka, it almost stayed in the same spot and Aya never showed her trueself to Manaka (like how she acted with her brother/cousin). Even Manaka's family preferred Nishino (both his mom and "sister" Yui). You could see how Nishino made Msanaka her confidant and poured all her troubles and shared her joys with Manaka and she encouraged Manaka to do the same with her and for that end Nishino worked hard to make Manaka natural around her so that Manaka wont have any trouble to open infront of her. If you notice, none of the other girls have done any of the tellings/confiding their troubkles with Manaka or asked him to share his with them, that is called interdependency and since Nishino was a girl who could mix with the most illetrate and common people while at the same time she was equally confident speaking about Novels, movies or wrks of art, Manaka could talk just about everything wiith her. The two of them knew about each other, their dreams, their likes/dislikes, their strengths/weaknesses, their troubles/joy, their daily life, their families and roots, Nishino wanted Manaka to know everything about her so much so, that she took him back to her home town. From the very beginning, Nishino's main focus has been to know about Manaka and not just discuss about his dreams and books and slowly she learnt about him as did Manaka about her, for example Nishino is the only one who knows, Manaka has quite a talent for singing.
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Last edited by Dark Mage; 2009-10-22 at 23:04.
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Old 2009-10-27, 03:23   Link #1093
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hi

nice,dark mage.thanks for clearing my question.
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Old 2009-11-02, 02:04   Link #1094
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I just finished reading it last night and i feel kinda disappointed(can't sleep!), though i think i'm just confused. Tsukasa was true to herself and deserved Junpei but i can't help but feel bad for Aya.

can't help but think that there should be more... it's just Junpei's decision was rather Impulsive, I guess? well i admit Aya's also at fault not showing her feeling for junpei.

so confused that i can't get over it haha.
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Old 2009-11-02, 02:27   Link #1095
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I agree that his decision was rather impulsive. If the author could of neglected the misunderstanding I would forgive this manga for having Nishino but since she did not she gets a ANGER bomb from me.
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Old 2009-11-02, 04:29   Link #1096
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"Forgive this manga for having Nishino"? Somehow, I think you're asking to be flamed...
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Old 2009-11-02, 05:47   Link #1097
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well i have nothing against Nishino cuz she's just being true to her feelings for junpei and she's soooo CUTE!

The thing is that the "MISUNDERSTANDING" was like the very climax of the whole story. it just doesn't make sense! why make the story go over 19 chapters when something like an event that is the couple-only event!

so i conclude that the "Love Sanctuary" event is to be blamed! bow
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Old 2009-11-02, 07:09   Link #1098
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did i at some point already mention that this thread never ceases to amuse me? This controversy is the true gem of the series
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Old 2009-11-02, 07:38   Link #1099
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did i at some point already mention that this thread never ceases to amuse me? This controversy is the true gem of the series
true,true....
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Old 2009-11-02, 07:53   Link #1100
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It is fun to read, from time to time, I'll give you that.
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