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Old 2011-11-03, 06:14   Link #1641
bumbayker
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Originally Posted by vansonbee View Post
Glad you enjoy the series and I find amusing that everyone always finish it in 2 days straight.

Few things I have to point out about your assessment. Nishino has more romantic moments with Junpei. She was the underdog throughout the story. The reasons why?
- Junpei first crush was the mysterious girl on the roof, who was later found out to be Aya.
- The story felt at first, like it was gonna be a cliché.
- She aided Junpei club activities, which associate with his dream (important, almost or more than romance).

Others will argument that Aya has moved on, because she wasn't whimsy during their reunion as before or compared currently with Satsuki at that moment.
Yeah, I see your point. It would definitely be a cliché and no different to many shounen romances if Aya was the end girl. I guess I was hoping for some sort of twist if Junpei did choose her. Maybe if Aya confessed and made clear of her feelings to Junpei much earlier things might have taken a different turn with them. Unfortunately her shyness and hesitation proved to be her downfall to win him over. Despite her rejection at least she found some happiness. I was hoping though Akachi and Satsuki would hook up since they had something in common.

Anyway it was very worthwhile read and probably one the best romance mangas to date.
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Old 2011-11-03, 13:03   Link #1642
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Yeah, I see your point. It would definitely be a cliché and no different to many shounen romances if Aya was the end girl. I guess I was hoping for some sort of twist if Junpei did choose her. Maybe if Aya confessed and made clear of her feelings to Junpei much earlier things might have taken a different turn with them. Unfortunately her shyness and hesitation proved to be her downfall to win him over. Despite her rejection at least she found some happiness. I was hoping though Akachi and Satsuki would hook up since they had something in common.

Anyway it was very worthwhile read and probably one the best romance mangas to date.
Which, to this day, this series remains a hot topic. The end was the biggest strength os the series as well as its biggest weakness...
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Old 2011-11-03, 14:07   Link #1643
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Weakness in the sense that it received a lot of "heat/controversy?"

or

Weakness in the sense that it destroyed the story?
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Old 2011-11-03, 16:15   Link #1644
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As much as I wanted Aya or even Satsuki chosen Tsukasa proved to have the resiliency with the right amount of aggressiveness and tenderness in the end. Though I grudgingly accept Tsukasa as the victor I can't help sympathize with the other 2 girls in love with Junpei. They also truly loved him and deserved to be with him as much as Tsukasa. Unfortunately their own respective personalities hindered them and their love for Junpei didn't hit home unlike Tsukasa. I don't consider any of them to be at fault with their feelings despite the end result since they were true to themselves. I guess regardless who Junpei chose the other 2 will end up hurt. As much as want them to also be loved the same way a harem type end would be worse. Personally though I felt that Tsukasa had the least to lose and was strong enough to recover from getting dumped again by Junpei. But it wouldn't really matter because she pursued the relationship in a better way than other 2 girls.

Anyway, what's done is done. It was still an overwhelming and memorable story. I just hope I don't have to go through this kind of heart-wrenching experience again soon. It's just hard to get over it.
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Old 2011-11-03, 16:15   Link #1645
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Weakness in the sense that it received a lot of "heat/controversy?"

or

Weakness in the sense that it destroyed the story?

To a certain degree, both. Not gonna comment too much on that since it a topic that have been beaten to death in this thread and I've already given my opinion on this. Let's just say that, IMHO, while it is a logical ending, it also messed up the structure of the story and is the main reason for the free-fall state of Mizuki Kawashita's career despite her obvious talent as an "artist".
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Old 2011-11-03, 21:03   Link #1646
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Kindly pardon me for further continuing this thread since I understand this topic has been done to death. I'm really new to Ichigo and only got into it by chance (from vansonbee's sig). I'd like to ask a few hypothetical questions to those who have read the manga several times and have a better comprehension of the story and characters than I do since I've only read it once. I know each has his/her own interpretations but I'd much appreciate it to hear your honest and unbiased opinion regardless which girl you routed for. Anyway here are my questions and thanks in advance if you reply to them.

For Toujou:
We know that there were several failed opportunities for Aya and Junpei to get closer to each other due to lack of action, misunderstandings, or unforeseen circumstances. Hypothetically speaking, what were those crucial moments/instances in the story in your opinion would have allowed her to secure herself as Junpei's chosen girl if only she had confessed and was clear of her feelings to him and vice versa earlier?

And if even they did confess to each other and hooked up would their relationship have as much depth and trust as with Nishino, and would it last?


For Kitaoji:
In the earlier chapters Satsuki was presented to be in the same wavelength with Junpei and appeared to be clear rival to Nishino and Toujou. Unfortunately as the story progressed her character wasn't taken seriously and she was forever friend-zoned despite her many attempts to win Junpei. Is there anything she could have done to get Junpei to notice and take interest in her as a woman?

Would have it been enough to reduce her sexual aggression and violent behavior towards him and act more refined? Or is a lost cause and absolutely has no chance for her regardless if she tried to change herself?
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Old 2011-11-04, 05:04   Link #1647
vansonbee
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Ahhh, so I was the catalysis that started you into "Ichigo 100%". Sorry, if I kind of spoiled it for you xD
Quote:
Originally Posted by bumbayker View Post
Spoiler:
The best timing for Aya to hook-up w/ Junpei, has to be after the break-up between Junpei and Nishino, but sadly, she did not make use of the given opportunity and her relationship remained the same as before the break-up. During this moment in the story, I felt Aya looked down at Satsuki as a rival and waited for Junpei to confess to her instead.

Regarding the "what if" scenario. I cannot even picture Aya/Junpei successfully reaching first base for along time in the story. Its unavoidable that this relationship will be dry, compared to Nishino or even Satsuki. From what we are given from the story, they both haven't shown any initiative in their lifestyle and this will reflect negatively on their relationship together. No one would be correcting each other bad behavior and the lack of interest will slowly wilting away at the couple longevity.

Satsuki:
I'm very positive that he recognize her as a woman alright, but not his type of woman. Satsuki behavior throughout the story is very improper in Japanese culture, compared to Aya (big differences) and Nishino (mild w/ context).

The other 2 girls will always have an advantage over Junpei.
- Aya with her writing, which aids Junpei in his goal.
- Nishino, who provides a broaden perspective in life and understood him more in-depth then the other two.

Overall, I would say Aya will have no problem worrying about NTR happening, because Nishino will not waste further time on a lost case and Satsuki is just Satsuki
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Old 2011-11-04, 16:59   Link #1648
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Ahhh, so I was the catalysis that started you into "Ichigo 100%". Sorry, if I kind of spoiled it for you xD
LOL. Don't worry you didn't spoil it. My first impression was I really like the art and the collage of Jumpei and Nishino in your sig looked cute and romantic and got me curious. I even thought at first Nishino was the main female lead.

Though I really enjoyed the entire manga from start to end (even though it still pains me up to now to see Aya and Satsuki get completely rejected) I'm not without my complaints. Personally I felt that only Nishino had the only real character development among all the female characters. Her character matured as the story progressed unlike Toujo and Satsuki who remained static. It was only after they were completely rejected by Manaka that they changed for the better. I was hoping maybe Toujou would gradually gain self-confidence, break out from her shell and put up a fight. Or Satsuki realizing that her very aggressive advances for Manaka was only pushing him away from her. Also some characters like Chinami and Kozue weren't relevant to the plot and the time spent on them could have been used to develop the 2 other girls instead. If there was character growth for Toujou and Satsuki I the playing field might have been more interesting and choosing one of them would even be less predictable.

The male rivals, Okusa and Amachi, weren't much of a threat to Manaka despite they took opportunities in trying to take Nishino and Toujo away from him. I was hoping there would be a risk of losing one or both of the girls and Manaka would have to step up his game in order to get the girl back to him. That would give personal growth to Manaka and make him realize how truly important those girls are to him.

Lastly is the ending. I don't hate it but I don't completely like it either. I've learned though to accept Nishino as the victor despite I preferred Toujo. Also not all the significant characters were present in the reunion. I would have wanted Misuzu there. Toujo and Satsuki in the final chapter didn't seem that happy enough for me. They were more like content with their lives than truly happy. They really deserve a man who cared for them as much as Junpei did. Though the Kawashita stated they would eventually find happiness it would have been better if it was actually shown.

Well anyway, Ichigo is still one the best mangas I've read in a long time. I hope there would another one of it genre with as much caliber. Its a shame though that Kawashita Mizuki's succeeding works didn't have as much popularity or lasted as long as this series.

Last edited by bumbayker; 2011-11-04 at 17:22.
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Old 2011-11-04, 17:00   Link #1649
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If Satsuki had pulled back her aggression (early on), played a bit more "girly-girl" in the sense that she would use other guys to get Manaka jealous....then MAYBE she would stand a chance.

Manaka did admit during the early parts that he felt the most comfortable with her. I wouldn't necessarily say she was "friendzoned" at that point. She could've done a much better job at attracting him. Ironically, she would have to do the exact opposite of literally jumping all over him.

edit:

In response to your above post...

You feel this way now, but it'll change as you think more about the manga. I felt that exact same way immediately after I finished.

IMO, Toujou had a great ending. She's an accomplished and famous writer. Additionally, there was NO hint that she wasn't in a relationship (or marriage!) at that point. Okay, maybe that is stretching it, but there was no sign that she was single and unhappy.

Satsuki, OTOH, appeared to "lose" out the most at the end. Her attraction towards Manaka was still apparent, even after all those years.

Btw, Misuzu was there at the reunion.

If you re-read it again somewhere down the line, do it while looking through Nishino's eyes.
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Old 2011-11-04, 19:25   Link #1650
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Oh, my bad for not noticing Misuzu in the reunion. I was going through the final chapter quickly. I'll give it another read maybe after month or so. It wouldn't be healthy for me to go through Toujou's heartbreak again so soon. Her loss is still fresh in my head. LOL.

Still, it makes me wonder how would it been like if Toujou were chosen by Manaka instead which was originally conceptualized by Kawashita. What moments in the manga could have been turning points in favor of Toujou? And what could she have at least done to ensure her place despite her reserved and shy personality? I think instances like Aya's failed confession during their middle school graduation and Manaka's near kiss with her during the school trip would have probably sealed the deal if they weren't sorely interrupted.

I agree that Satsuki should have changed her approach towards Manaka and used her head instead of her heart and body if she wanted to have a chance at him. She should have realized early on that her seduction wasn't working well since Manaka was very resistant. Unfortunately her personality like Toujou prevented her from doing so otherwise. She made clear of her feelings but lacked the tact in her methods to attract Manaka. If Manaka chose her their relationship would probably a very passionate one if not ecchi. They would both be lovers and best of friends which might even be better than a relationship with Nishino. Oh well, I guess I can only fantasize with those endings.
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Old 2011-11-04, 20:19   Link #1651
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Oh, my bad for not noticing Misuzu in the reunion. I was going through the final chapter quickly. I'll give it another read maybe after month or so. It wouldn't be healthy for me to go through Toujou's heartbreak again so soon. Her loss is still fresh in my head. LOL.

Still, it makes me wonder how would it been like if Toujou were chosen by Manaka instead which was originally conceptualized by Kawashita. What moments in the manga could have been turning points in favor of Toujou? And what could she have at least done to ensure her place despite her reserved and shy personality? I think instances like Aya's failed confession during their middle school graduation and Manaka's near kiss with her during the school trip would have probably sealed the deal if they weren't sorely interrupted.

I agree that Satsuki should have changed her approach towards Manaka and used her head instead of her heart and body if she wanted to have a chance at him. She should have realized early on that her seduction wasn't working well since Manaka was very resistant. Unfortunately her personality like Toujou prevented her from doing so otherwise. She made clear of her feelings but lacked the tact in her methods to attract Manaka. If Manaka chose her their relationship would probably a very passionate one if not ecchi. They would both be lovers and best of friends which might even be better than a relationship with Nishino. Oh well, I guess I can only fantasize with those endings.
There are numerous times when Aya had a chance to turn the tables in her favor. Scratch that, there was an excessive number of times...Most notably, towards the end when Manaka "discovered" that Aya had a boyfriend.

Us, the readers, knew that it was simply her brother parading his "siscon" complex, but Manaka had no idea. It's a bit debatable to claim if Aya was aware of how Manaka felt during this time. IF she was aware, she could've cleared the air immediately and allowed their relationship to progress.

This is where Aya differs from Nishino, and why Nishino is amazing .

When there was confusion regarding Nishino's status with Higure, she stepped up and told Manaka out-right that they had nothing going on. Granted, she had to nudge Manaka to be honest, but she could sense something was wrong and took the initiative to "nip the problem in the bud." Aya would never do that.

Aya's epic door confession came way too late. She had already lost the war at that point. IMO, Nishino's "reverse pull-up" confession had much more of an emotional impact and was also symbolic in a way. It also came out of nowhere, so I was pleasantly surprised.

(just realized you were referring to the failed confession early on...nvm)

@vansonbee

I found you on MAL :P How is it that Clannad is on HOLD!?

Personally, Clannad and Clannad After Story is to Anime, what Ichigo 100% is to Manga...the absolute top of the top in my ratings
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Old 2011-11-04, 21:56   Link #1652
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There are numerous times when Aya had a chance to turn the tables in her favor. Scratch that, there was an excessive number of times...Most notably, towards the end when Manaka "discovered" that Aya had a boyfriend.

Us, the readers, knew that it was simply her brother parading his "siscon" complex, but Manaka had no idea. It's a bit debatable to claim if Aya was aware of how Manaka felt during this time. IF she was aware, she could've cleared the air immediately and allowed their relationship to progress.
If you don't mind can you please site some those chances/instances? Particularly the most relevant ones. I just like to analyze them and see what went wrong and what Aya should have done to turn the tides. Her chance to clear the misunderstanding about her brother was definitely her last to get back in race for Manaka. It's too bad she just wasn't perceptive enough to realize that Manaka had the wrong notion and she never bothered to inform him til the day of the festival.

Quote:
Originally Posted by recover View Post
When there was confusion regarding Nishino's status with Higure, she stepped up and told Manaka out-right that they had nothing going on. Granted, she had to nudge Manaka to be honest, but she could sense something was wrong and took the initiative to "nip the problem in the bud." Aya would never do that.
I suppose this is what Nishino has a big advantage over Toujou. Her force of character as well as her awareness causes her to take action quickly. Aya however being shy and recluse lacks those qualities to take initiative. She has to be approached to and made aware in order clear any misunderstandings or problems. Nishino's boon is unfortunately Aya's bane.

Quote:
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Aya's epic door confession came way too late. She had already lost the war at that point. IMO, Nishino's "reverse pull-up" confession had much more of an emotional impact and was also symbolic in a way. It also came out of nowhere, so I was pleasantly surprised.
By that point I realized that her confession was already futile much to my dismay. No matter what Aya does or say it wouldn't change Manaka's choice. Its just really sad that Aya's weakness of her personality would ultimately cause her to lose whatever advantage she had against Nishino and her chances to win over Manaka. If she only grew out of her shyness and gained some self-confidence then maybe it wouldn't have turned out this way. Nishino also had the right cards and played them when it really counts. The pull-up confession definitely had a strong impact to Manaka since it influenced his decision to which girl to be with.
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Old 2011-11-05, 05:59   Link #1653
vansonbee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bumbayker View Post
If you don't mind can you please site some those chances/instances? Particularly the most relevant ones. I just like to analyze them and see what went wrong and what Aya should have done to turn the tides. Her chance to clear the misunderstanding about her brother was definitely her last to get back in race for Manaka. It's too bad she just wasn't perceptive enough to realize that Manaka had the wrong notion and she never bothered to inform him til the day of the festival.
Yup! Aya bad habit is never clearing up the misunderstanding and it wouldn't have made a differences, because Junpei was planning to ask Nishino to the festival before finding out about Aya boyfriend (brother).
Quote:
I suppose this is what Nishino has a big advantage over Toujou. Her force of character as well as her awareness causes her to take action quickly. Aya however being shy and recluse lacks those qualities to take initiative. She has to be approached to and made aware in order clear any misunderstandings or problems. Nishino's boon is unfortunately Aya's bane.
Gonna agree with majority of your assessment here. What first give Aya the edge throughout the story was Junpei infatuation with the "mysterious panty girl". In addition, he was later taken by her writing talents, which closely intertwine with his own path (dream) in life. During the beginning, Nishino was a bratty kid, who had no focus of the future, but this changed, all due to Junpei influences in her life. It took Junpei sometime to acknowledge her newfound goal in life, if you recall, he was depress that she mention of leaving to France during the middle arc (Nishino = winning hard than flops) and the later reminder on "Christmas eve". He thought she would change her mind and stay in Japan with him, which is selfish when the story revolves around his own dreams... but thanks to further misunderstanding with Aya. Junpei finally realize his immaturity and set things straight between him and Nishino. The reason behind why he broke-up with Nishino was to not hold each other back from their career path and this was especially true, when he waited for 4 years straight for her.
Quote:
By that point I realized that her confession was already futile much to my dismay. No matter what Aya does or say it wouldn't change Manaka's choice. Its just really sad that Aya's weakness of her personality would ultimately cause her to lose whatever advantage she had against Nishino and her chances to win over Manaka. If she only grew out of her shyness and gained some self-confidence then maybe it wouldn't have turned out this way. Nishino also had the right cards and played them when it really counts. The pull-up confession definitely had a strong impact to Manaka since it influenced his decision to which girl to be with.
The pull-up confession was the icing to the cake! It wasn't only that scene, that decided everything. Don't you remember Junpei misunderstanding with Aya and later finding out about his horrible test score? All of this led to Junpei wandering the street until he naturally went to Nishino workplace for comfort w/o realizing it himself. Junpei had a mini flashback and realize all the positive things, Nishino has done for him and thats how they got together. Truthfully, I believe the mistake brother plot wasn't gonna change the route anyways.


led to him being super depress and he wander the streets to Nishino work place without realizing it, for comfort.
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Old 2011-11-19, 07:46   Link #1654
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Actually when we look around, recently we can find Ichigo 100% ending type in other manga like School Rumble and Fruit Basket or anime like Kimi ga Nozomu Eien. And most of it manage to give memorable impact to its viewer, maybe because Ichigo 100% maybe first popular manga which pioneering this ending type then its got heavy critique barrage from "first girl ending" die-hard fans. Luckily after Ichigo 100%, "other girl ending" start got more favorable view but we will never forget that Ichigo 100% was the pioneer for this ending and got heaviest critique barrage but it made this series distinguished than other series.
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Old 2011-11-19, 09:33   Link #1655
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why the fuck do you think School Rumble had an Ichigo100%-esque ending??
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Old 2011-11-19, 11:30   Link #1656
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Actually when we look around, recently we can find Ichigo 100% ending type in other manga like School Rumble and Fruit Basket or anime like Kimi ga Nozomu Eien. And most of it manage to give memorable impact to its viewer, maybe because Ichigo 100% maybe first popular manga which pioneering this ending type then its got heavy critique barrage from "first girl ending" die-hard fans. Luckily after Ichigo 100%, "other girl ending" start got more favorable view but we will never forget that Ichigo 100% was the pioneer for this ending and got heaviest critique barrage but it made this series distinguished than other series.
- Kimi Ga Nozomu Eien (Rumbling Hearts) = one of my favorite relationship animes ever, but I don't think it can be connected to Ichigo, because this series was base off a game where many possible endings can occur.

Fruit Basket is another favorite of mine, but I don't see the correlation ending like Ichigo and why is School Rumble even mention here? The main female case never knew anything about the protagonist feelings (close, but no dice). Actually who was the protagonist of that series?
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Old 2011-11-19, 21:54   Link #1657
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Sorry i mean the series not pair main male and female protagonist like the other series. About School Rumble maybe that mangaka trick so all of fans can accept the ending, all of us know if main protagonist not paired than a lot of fans will rant. But in School Rumble case, I think mangaka manage to insert the ending without critique barrage from old guard fans.
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Old 2011-11-21, 11:21   Link #1658
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School Rumble had one of the worst endings. It's one of my favorite series, but I'm still bitter and disappointed at how it closed out...

At least the School Rumble Z (manga) had a single picture to relieve me...a bit :P

I would add that Shuffle had an ending that was a little bit less predictable...still doesn't hold a candle to how good Ichigo 100%
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Old 2011-11-21, 17:13   Link #1659
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and what about Kampfer
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Old 2011-11-21, 17:48   Link #1660
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and what about Kampfer
Love this series ending, but come on. It was kind of expected, when there was so much emphasis on the evil girl.
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