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View Poll Results: Who’s Under the Mask?
Madara 104 32.91%
Madara’s Son 14 4.43%
Madara’s Clone 30 9.49%
Madara’s Ghost/Soul/Poltergeist given shape... 33 10.44%
Obito 59 18.67%
Obito’s Body, but not really Obito... 55 17.41%
Someone else’s body (not Obito’s)... 21 6.65%
Zetsu’s Love Child... 23 7.28%
Tobirama/Sarutobi/or anyone with a 'tobi' in their name... 16 5.06%
Bruce Wayne or other… 69 21.84%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 316. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-08-15, 10:27   Link #1141
EvilHina
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Hi there.
So there it is, my first and only predicition on how to solve the mistery that is Tobi.
Im posting this now with 2-3 weeks to go until 600 hits, which in my mind will be the
chapter to finally unmask Tobi.
This theory stands now for about 135 chapters(in 462 tobi has the conversation with
naruto during the "Meeting of the 5 Kages") and just needed the final piece of the
puzzle to be completed.

It all begins with a quote from Tobi

[cut]

"...it is to become complete..."

That quote basically gives us all the intel we need. Tobi desires to be complete.
We already know that his aim is to become the Ten-Tails aka Juubi Jinchuuriki.
But that is merely one of his aims. His ultimate aim would be to become the
reincarnation of the Rikudo Sennin - Sage of the Six Paths.
If we look closely at the info Tobi has given us, we can conclude that
the legacy of the Rikudo Sage was built on 3 pillars of power.

1. The Sage possessed the ultimate Doujutsu, the Rinnegan, which enabled him to use the
six paths' ninjutsu and making him the ruler over life and death itself.

2. The Rikudo-Sennin sealed the Juubi inside himself and thus was able to wield
inconceivable power and made him the bearer of the ultimate chakra being.

3. He possessed the ultimate Body, gifted with life force and physical energy that allowed
him to live an unnatural long life, possibly even centuries in which he tried to bring
peace to the world.

Now that established this, it is safe to say that Tobi and his plan to "become complete"
aims at these 3 pillars of power.

Now lets start with the Rinnegan. It is safe to say that Nagatos Rinnegan was a gift from
Tobi, as he stated to Konan when he took the eyes back from Nagatos corpse.
This really makes me wonder. How was Tobi able to get his hands on these blessed eyes?
I have a theory for that which will be saved for the end.

Now to continue to the 2nd pillar of power. There is already a lot of info based around the
juubi and how to awaken it and while there remain a few secrets when it comes to the
Gedo-Mazou statue, it is safe to say that Tobi already has everything he needs to awaken
the Juubi again. As of the Juubis body, Tobi stated that the real body was transformed into
the moon when the Rikudo-Sennin sealed its chakra into himself. But this may very well be
part of the legend. We cannot say at this point but im positive that Kishi will adress this
matter very soon, especially considering the so called "Moon-Eye-Project", in which the moon
takes its role. I highly doubt this is a coincidence. I Would even go as far and say that the
Mugen-Tsukoyomi is Tobis last and biggest bluff and is just used as a big enough threat to
draw the nations into war.But lets leave it at that and not spin this theory further.

Last but not least there is the ultimate life force body that the Rikudo-Sennin possessed.
This third part goes hand in hand with the acquisition of the Rinnegan. I would like to
look at this from a different angle.I will use another Tobi quote here.

[cut]

"..time passed and though their blood had thinned, the descendants of the two brothers
still warred with each other..."

When Shodai Hokage Senju Hashirama fought Uchiha Madara at the valley of the end, history
itself proved Tobis statement to be correct.

I will now give you my final conclusion.

Full of rage about the Rikudo-Sennins decision, the elder son continually searched conflict
with his younger brother until it all climaxed in a battle where the wielder of the
Rinnegan would meet his fate in his younger brother.The younger brother who was picked as
being best suited to be his fathers successor, would then continue to implement his late fathers
last will to bring peace to the world. Given his unnatural long life it would take ages but inevitably
the younger brother would then have to admit, that even he was not able to find an answer to
the peace he so desperately longed for. Decade after decade witnessing the terror of the cursed
shinobi world, he began to lose his faith in the good nature of men. The more suffering he
witnessed the more he confessed to himself that if he would not be able to bring peace to the
world, nobody else could achieve this either.
It was around the time of the battle at the valley of the end when he decided to push
things forward more drastically. He instated a long term plan in which he increases his
own battle capacity to a point where fear would control the world and bring peace as
a result of his own disastrous actions. But he no longer was a young man and to achieve
his goals he would be forced to recreate the Juubi that his father split into 9 being of
chakra as a source of power. He also knew that only his exceptional body could absorb such
immense chakra without being torn apart. Knowing that even he was not immortal he researched
to create something of his own body cells that would everlasting be able to hold the Juuubis
power and force fear upon the world. The results of this research would be a creation further
known as Zetsu. But the younger son was no fool. He Knew that the world would need more
to be controlled. The people would need a certain concept of the enemy, which they could fear.
It had to be someone or something everybody would acknowledge. This concept, this idea would
go by the name of Uchiha Madara. He contacted Madara, who had lost his fight with the
Shodai Hokage and offered him an increase in power in exchange for working with him and
further improving Zetsu.He would offer his older brothers accursed eyes, the Rinnegan.
But already knowing that Madara would meet his end soon enough, he was on the lookout for an
even more promising protégé. After years of searching, he finally placed his eyes on a fitting candidate.
Born as an offspring to the Uzumaki-clan, a young war orphan named Nagato emerged in the Rain Country.
This boy who inherited his clans superior life force would be later known to the world as "Pain".
Having created an organsisation called "Akatsuki" the younger brother slowly but surely pushed things forward.
Although having all those fail-safe systems established, the younger brother knew that the day would come
where he had to face the world himself. Therefore, knowing that he already passed his prime, he would have to
live long enough to bring his plan to fruition. Having lived in the shadows for many years, the younger brother would
finally witness the event that would grant him the power to play an active role in his crusade. As he travelled through
the world, one day he would come across the ruins of the Kannabi Bridge and find a young, dying shinobi burried
alive under the crushing weight of rock boulders.This Shinobi was non other than Uchiha Obito. Unsuspecting, the
younger brother watched the scene when Obito suddenly began to partially phase through the rocks. Yet unable to fully
comprehend what he witnessed, the Sage´s son was assured that the young shinobi at the verge of death unknowingly
used a complex jutsu, which allowed him to slip through solid objects. But it was to late for the young shinobi, solely
his head reaching out, he was crushed to death. But it was in the sage´s son favor, Obito´s Sharingan, undoubtedly the
source of this unknown power, was still intact. The younger brother would not hesitate for a second, he implanted the
remaining eye into his own. Possessing the ultimate body and life force, the sage´s son was able to activate the Sharingans
power to a massive extent, even withstanding the strain of Space-Time-Ninjutsu on himself.
The time for action had come, he was untouchable... So far!

Here it is, the final image.

[cut]

In the mid-left section. Tobi, none other than the Rikudo Sage´s younger son. Even the
resemblance is undeniable.

Thats about it, i hope you like it

Last edited by james0246; 2012-08-15 at 14:13. Reason: licensed images removed.
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Old 2012-08-15, 12:55   Link #1142
Dengar
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^At worst, you have the ability to write coherent fanfics. At best, there might even be some truth to that story.
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Old 2012-08-15, 16:37   Link #1143
dagr81
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i could be sold on that fanfic anyday, good stuff
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Old 2012-08-18, 02:38   Link #1144
Sasukemaru
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I suppose i'll make my prediction before the mask inevitably comes off, chances of it being legit aren't great but I'll have fun with it anyway. My prediction will be kagami uchiha, and like the post above I've come up with a story to my prediction.

-Founding of the Leaf- From the very start madara of the uchiha and hashirama of the senju were vying for control of the new village, but both were also looking ahead towards the future. Chosen by the senju to carry on their legacy was the most gifted young prodigy of his time hiruzen sarutobi, who received training from both hashirama and tobirama in order to create the perfect ninja in power and ideology. Madara's prodigy was the most gifted uchiha youth kagami uchiha.

-Battle at VOTE- After losing the position of hokage to hashirama, a bitter madara launches a rebellion which ends in his defeat. Madara and hashirama are both severely wounded to the point neither will ever be the same fighter again. Madara is believed to have died, however he not only survives but manages to get a ample amount of hashiramas dna.

-Death of hashirama- The first who was once considered a god was killed in a battle some time after the battle of vote, and before the first ninja world war. His younger brother tobirama is named the second hokage. Tobirama is bitter over his brothers death, believing had it not been for the injuries he received against madara he could never have been defeated. In order to prevent another uchiha uprising he creates the konaha military police force which secretly served to keep the uchiha out of government.

-Assassination of tobirama- Kagami was named the head of the police force, as a way of showing goodwill towards the uchiha by naming madara's protege to such a position. However the seeds of distrust had already been planted in the hearts of the uchiha. On a trip to the land of rocks kagami devised a plan to have the second killed, and enlisted the aid of the kinaku brothers. Kagami who was in charge of the hokages security set up the perfect moment for the hit to take place. Although tobirama survived this event had two major impacts, from that moment on the anbu were established hand chosen by each kage, and this was also one of the catalysts that would bring about the first ninja world war.

-Return of Madara- With the entire world on the verge of war, madara who had been living his life behind a mask since the battle of vote, used the chaos as cover to return to the world. Having recently awakened the rinnegan madara explained the purpose of the uchiha as it is written on the uchiha tablet to his former pupil kagami. The purpose of the sages eldest son, to bring peace through power. The infinite tsukiyomi.

-First ninja World War- This war gave kagami the opportunity to finish what he had started with tobirama, and madara who was acting as kagamis senior at this point gave him the go ahead on. After contacting his connections in the village hidden in the rocks about another attempt on tobirama, kagami gave up his teams position to the enemy, and even stated one of them would have to sacrifice himself so the others could escape, knowing his team leader tobirama would take it on himself. Tobirama would not survive this time, but not before passing down the title of hokage to the heir he and his brother groomed, hiruzen sarutobi.

That is the end of the first part of my theory, i will write the rest later.
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Old 2012-08-18, 03:49   Link #1145
Dengar
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Who is this uchiha kagami again?
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Old 2012-08-18, 03:56   Link #1146
Sasukemaru
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He was teammates with sarutobi, danzo, and the two elders. When the kyuubi attacked he disappeared and was presumed to have been killed during said attack. I dont feel like writing my theory anymore cause its too long, so u guys can fill in the blanks anyway u want lol
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Old 2012-08-18, 04:27   Link #1147
Dengar
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O RLY? And so many people choose Obito over the much more logical choice? That's....
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Old 2012-08-18, 20:04   Link #1148
Mateus
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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
O RLY? And so many people choose Obito over the much more logical choice? That's....
It's because when you mention Kagami people go "Kagami who?" and much rather prefer Obito, despite the fact that his entire body was crushed and was 12 years old at the time, oh and is dead.
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Old 2012-08-18, 21:32   Link #1149
Dengar
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If Kagami really is one of the elders like was said, he has more reason than anyone to be Tobi.
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Old 2012-08-18, 23:50   Link #1150
Mateus
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^
I don't see why he couldn't, just because people seem to think that he's obscure.
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Old 2012-08-19, 01:07   Link #1151
itachi-san314
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Originally Posted by Mateus View Post
^
I don't see why he couldn't, just because people seem to think that he's obscure.
we don't seem to think he is obscure. he is obscure. people on this forum who discuss naruto all the time have a hard time remembering he even existed. not to mention that the most meaningful characters he could relate to are dead already.
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Old 2012-08-19, 01:15   Link #1152
Mateus
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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
we don't seem to think he is obscure. he is obscure. people on this forum who discuss naruto all the time have a hard time remembering he even existed. not to mention that the most meaningful characters he could relate to are dead already.
So....? I see no reason why it couldn't work, in fact people not remembering him would be Kishi's whole goal
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Old 2012-08-19, 01:22   Link #1153
itachi-san314
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So....? I see no reason why it couldn't work, in fact people not remembering him would be Kishi's whole goal
i didnt say it was impossible or anything. im just saying that he's obscure. there was never any hint that he was some formidable uchiha, he just seemed like a normal uchiha (which is high level among other ninja, but he was no sarutobi or danzo for instance)

also, it would require an asspull about why he needed obito's eye in the first place and why his body needed to be replaced with zetsu's. or where any of tobi's motivation came from... i'd just prefer tobi to be someone who makes sense with the hints we have. literally nothing suggests he is kagami unless you want to count him being uchiha as a hint which i dont since there were many uchiha alive at that time
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Old 2012-08-19, 01:43   Link #1154
Mateus
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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
i didnt say it was impossible or anything. im just saying that he's obscure. there was never any hint that he was some formidable uchiha, he just seemed like a normal uchiha (which is high level among other ninja, but he was no sarutobi or danzo for instance)

also, it would require an asspull about why he needed obito's eye in the first place and why his body needed to be replaced with zetsu's. or where any of tobi's motivation came from... i'd just prefer tobi to be someone who makes sense with the hints we have. literally nothing suggests he is kagami unless you want to count him being uchiha as a hint which i dont since there were many uchiha alive at that time
I hate to say it but I think it just might be an ass pull - Obito is too obvious (Izuna may as well be in that category as well), and Rin...no, just no. I'm sure the story will elaborate through several flashback chapters on what his motivations were and what not (like with Danzo). I also feel like if there wasn't some relevance to the Kagami character then Kishimoto could have made the teammate somebody from some other clan, and not an Uchiha - which we all know by now are married to the plot.
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Old 2012-08-19, 06:20   Link #1155
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I'm not saying it's necessarily true. But I'm still fan of the idea that he's not anybody in particular we know. Maybe briefly mentioned in passing or appearing in some flashback. For one, it would fit his M.O. Him enhancing his body by taking DNA and other body parts would further enhance his theme.

If he was always observing Konoha during the time he was off the radar, it's not weird that he knows stuff.
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Old 2012-08-19, 09:32   Link #1156
itachi-san314
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I hate to say it but I think it just might be an ass pull - Obito is too obvious (Izuna may as well be in that category as well), and Rin...no just no.
I agree about these, but I think it's also important to take into account that most readers dont analyze and think about these things as much as we do. I'm sure most readers have been lately, but most are kids as well. keep in mind that kishi should probably choose an identity for tobi that appeals to the bulk of his audience which imo would be obito, izuna and/or part of madara. kabuto's trump card wasn't exactly difficult to guess and it was a crowd pleaser and a very well known character

Quote:
I'm sure the story will elaborate through several flashback chapters on what his motivations were and what not (like with Danzo). I also feel like if there wasn't some relevance to the Kagami character then Kishimoto could have made the teammate somebody from some other clan, and not an Uchiha - which we all know by now are married to the plot.
my opinion on why kagami was there was just to enhance the storyline that uchiha were once normal ninja of konoha and participated in teams just like everyone else. since ch1 they have been annihilated and the remaining ones are outcasts. i think kishi just wanted to show (like with kakashi gaiden) that they were part of missions and things were relatively normal among them and the other clans. keep in mind that there was a random akamichi in tobirama's team as well. nobody finds that odd or anything. it's just the fact that kagami was uchiha that seems to make people want to think more of him than we have been given evidence to believe so far at least
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Old 2012-08-19, 19:57   Link #1157
Mateus
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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post

my opinion on why kagami was there was just to enhance the storyline that uchiha were once normal ninja of konoha and participated in teams just like everyone else. since ch1 they have been annihilated and the remaining ones are outcasts. i think kishi just wanted to show (like with kakashi gaiden) that they were part of missions and things were relatively normal among them and the other clans. keep in mind that there was a random akamichi in tobirama's team as well. nobody finds that odd or anything. it's just the fact that kagami was uchiha that seems to make people want to think more of him than we have been given evidence to believe so far at least
Madara was a given for the trump, also for several chapters Tobi was more or less calling himself Madara (depending on the translation) and the "oh shit!" reaction upon seeing it summoned seemed to confirm that he is/was not in fact Madara - a collaborator perhaps, but not the genuine article.

Also the fact that he has collected so many sharingan that it borders on obsession should be taken into account. Danzo who had a sharingan by forcibly removing an eye from Shisui, Kakashi who has one as a gift from Obito and then there's Tobi who we know has the Rinnegan from Nagato - that was originally Madara's (confirmed a few chapters back when Madara makes mention of Nagato; a kid who was alive at the time Madara should have been long since dead).

Tobi I don't think will be Obito, he did also say recently that he got the eye during the kanabi bridge incident (around the Kakashi gaiden right?) I think if he were hinting that he was Obito his wording should have been different like; "this eye was born during that time..." rather than "I collected it during that time". What about his 'original' sharingan if it ever existed? If Tobi truly is an Uchiha then he should have his own eye techniques rather than just a variation of Obito/Kakashi's kamui. Perhaps Tobi is not even really an Uchiha. Back to the Kagami thing, if you compare the image of Tobi's cracked mask during the Konan fight with the picture of Kagami (compare the eyes and the eyebrows) they look similar, especially the eyebrow area - of course the anime shows more that the manga did not (artistic license). I also think him being Kagami fits with the "I don't want to be anybody" line, given that if we take reality into account just how forgettable/obscure Kagami really is, it could be that Tobi knows that he was not remembered among the Konoha greats (Hashirama, Tobirama, Hiruzen, White Fang, Tsunade, Jiraiya, Orochimaru, Minato, Kakashi) and certainly not among the greatest of the Uchiha (Madara, Izuna, Itachi). His character is a bleak reference to someone who was accompanying Danzo and the 2nd on a task squad back in the day, no one remembers, no would remember (no one these days; i.e. Naruto, Sakura, Shikamaru,Sasuke (maybe) so instead he opts to be no one/nothing because he would not be remembered anyway.

But there are still several loose threads that need tying up; the Uchiha coup - what exactly was the motivation (or motivator) behind this? Exactly when and were did Madara meet with Nagato and how did he know to find him? Tobi of course is the biggest mystery, he mentioned during the end of the Pain Invasion arc that the Rinne Tensei technique was supposed to have been used for him - what this means is still unclear, I assume that it he was to have Nagato use it to revive the real Madara, however whether a time effective deadline remains to be seen (wouldn't one think that an Edo Tensei body is much more effective than a living one?)
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Old 2012-08-20, 02:12   Link #1158
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Madara didn't have access to Edo Tensei back then. It was Tobirama's jutsu.
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Old 2012-08-20, 08:43   Link #1159
james0246
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Originally Posted by Mateus View Post
(wouldn't one think that an Edo Tensei body is much more effective than a living one?)
If Edo-Madara were to ever reach some sort of emotional closure (over whatever he is struggling with), then he would be released back to the underworld. It may not seem like a major disadvantage, but it is still a problem, especially if Madara is about to complete his dreams.
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Old 2012-08-20, 10:30   Link #1160
Mateus
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If Edo-Madara were to ever reach some sort of emotional closure (over whatever he is struggling with), then he would be released back to the underworld. It may not seem like a major disadvantage, but it is still a problem, especially if Madara is about to complete his dreams.
So basically he wouldn't have any control over whether he got the closure or not, it would just happen automatically and release his spirit?
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