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Old 2015-05-06, 10:12   Link #1
Yui Is My Wife
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Question How do you feel about Doujin Authors who humiliate decent/nice characters?

Not trying to flamebait: just want to see how everyone else feels.

Sometimes, a character is just so sweet/decent/kind/nice/noble that they touch you heart, and you not only just like them, but actually love and respect them.

And then there's Doujin authors who deliberately go out of their way to pick those decent, lovable characters and humiliate them.

Don't get me wrong; I openly enjoy my H-Doujins as much as the next Otaku;

But it just feels so wrong when it's a good-hearted dreamer like Saten Ruiko (Railgun) tricked into being humiliated from the promise of getting a mere Level-One power, and crying with joy that she got said power at the cost of her dignity.

Or Yuuki (Sword Art Online II), a shining example of bravery and hope
Spoiler:

being reduced to a crying wreck whose hard work and courage amounted to nothing.

I'm all for free speech and all, but am I weird for wanting to punch authors like that in the face, or at least write a strongly-worded letter to them?

Just wondering that's all.
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Old 2015-05-06, 10:14   Link #2
GDiddy
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Not my cup of tea, but I'm not going to tell someone how to write what's basically fanfiction either.

I really hate the rape fantasies though. That's just evil and horrible.
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Old 2015-05-06, 13:02   Link #3
Gintokifan22
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Oh, I hate those type of Anime. It's not only Anime that does this too but Animated shows too, like Ed, Edd n Eddy that had the really nice guy get beaten all the time even though it wasn't his fault at all. I like Anime that nice characters get treated with respect, I also really hate when the female main character beat the crap out of them when they didn't even do any thing wrong. Why thes people who work on those shows feel they need nice guy's get treated like crap is Beyound me, must have had a lousy childhood.
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Old 2015-05-06, 14:18   Link #4
Akuma Kinomoto
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They make me blargh, but as long as I, y'know, have the option to avoid them, I'm all good.
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Old 2015-05-06, 15:29   Link #5
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ANDDDD this is why I only deal with original doujins or series I don't like. Most people have shitty imaginations so I just leave it to not spill over or insult things that are actually good. Pretty sure a lot of people seem to want to draw teh sex without consideration of who or what it is, so yea...
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Old 2015-05-06, 18:27   Link #6
IceHism
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I can't into anything except vanilla so I don't like it no matter how it is done.
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Old 2015-05-06, 18:52   Link #7
GreyZone
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One of the many reasons why fanfiction in general is bad, no matter what the medium is.
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Old 2015-05-06, 19:53   Link #8
Yui Is My Wife
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gintokifan22 View Post
Why thes people who work on those shows feel they need nice guy's get treated like crap is Beyound me, must have had a lousy childhood.
You know, maybe that's why Takotsuboya (that asshole who made his name with his infamous "destroy the hopes and dreams of the cast of K-ON!" doujinshi) and joe-pee-pee-maltin so gleefully scribble their hateful twisted stupid worthless crap.

In all likelihood they must be pen-pals sharing notes.

Almost makes you feel sorry for those worthless bastards. Almost.
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Old 2015-05-06, 21:27   Link #9
erneiz_hyde
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I kind of like these kind of doujins as long as the art is good. That doesn't mean I can't enjoy good heart warming vanilla though. I'm all for variety.

Also, I've read that apparently these kind of doujins are also often drawn by female artists.
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Old 2015-05-06, 22:03   Link #10
GDiddy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyZone View Post
One of the many reasons why fanfiction in general is bad, no matter what the medium is.
Not necessarily true. I've actually read some good fanfiction, though finding a good one is like finding a unicorn.
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Old 2015-05-07, 03:38   Link #11
Eisdrache
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I don't see anything wrong with this.

In fanfiction/doujins the author portrays the characters in a way he or she wants to. If that's a rape fantasy, heart-breaking, depressing, vanilla or a complete reverse of the character then so be it. It's their take on the story and as long as it fits well into their story then that's perfectly fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GDiddy View Post
Not necessarily true. I've actually read some good fanfiction, though finding a good one is like finding a unicorn.
Very true. I know only one good fanfiction author but unfortunately her personality is worse than a fatalpulse doujin.
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Old 2015-05-07, 12:42   Link #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eisdrache View Post
I don't see anything wrong with this.

In fanfiction/doujins the author portrays the characters in a way he or she wants to.
And sometimes that may come across as degrading to the character (or even downright bashing of the character), which naturally is upsetting to that character's fans, and those character's fans have every right to voice their criticisms and complaints over it.

Freedom of expression is important, but that's not the same as freedom from mere criticism. If you present a character in a way that some people will find offensive and/or very OoC, you should be prepared to face some criticism for it.

Fanfics and fanworks that don't degrade/humiliate characters in the way that the OP is describing are preferable to fanfics and fanworks that do degrade characters in that way, all else being equal. I agree with the OP on that.


Quote:
If that's a rape fantasy, heart-breaking, depressing, vanilla or a complete reverse of the character then so be it.
I disagree. Honestly, I think "a complete reverse" is disrespectful to the character's creator and to the character itself. At least it is unless the fanwork provides a good reason in the fanwork itself for such a drastic character change.

If they just take the character, and present them completely OoC pretty much right off the bat, then that's either bad writing or disrespectful of the character or both, in my opinion.


And I find it a bit ironic that you agreed with what GDiddy wrote, because I would argue that some fanfic writers taking positions like your own is a big part of the reason why fanfiction often has a bad reputation. When people read fanfiction, it's typically because they want to read characters they know and like in new and different stories. That's undermined when characters are presented very OoC - Writing a character OoC defeats much of the very reason that many people would turn to fanfics to begin with.
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Old 2015-05-07, 13:52   Link #13
erneiz_hyde
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
-snip-
Well, thanks to you, I now know how bad it feels when you're judged by what you fap to. My condolences to bronies, fujoshi, etc out there.
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Old 2015-05-07, 14:03   Link #14
Solace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yui Is My Wife View Post
Sometimes, a character is just so sweet/decent/kind/nice/noble that they touch you heart, and you not only just like them, but actually love and respect them.
I have characters I'm fond of, but I'm not sure I'd ascribe my emotional attachment to be that deep.

It's just not a subject that has bothered me much. Some doujins/fanfics can take established characters/settings into unexpected and interesting ways. I may not always like it, but I won't begrudge the writer for it.

Also, it's important to remember that a shitty story is a shitty story, regardless of the genre and characters used. Many times a creatively bankrupt individual or company will just use the characters/setting to cash in on popularity. They really don't care about the original material at all, they just want to make some money.

So there's personal reasons they might make a trashy story, and there's monetary reasons. Honestly though, with so many doujin out there, there's bound to be some good ones. I say find those, and pretend the rest don't exist. There's no need to be upset.
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Old 2015-05-07, 15:11   Link #15
Triple_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
Well, thanks to you, I now know how bad it feels when you're judged by what you fap to.
I never wrote a single word about the fans of the sort of content that the OP is criticizing. So I'm not judging you.

Do you honestly find it hard to understand and accept why a fan of a character would dislike that character being wrote in degrading and/or very OoC ways?

If I like a character, I'd rather not see that character get raped, and left in tears.


And here's a key factor for me - I don't read many doujins, but rape or coerced sex comes up in a pretty high percentage of the ones I've come across (which is probably the main reason why I don't read more doujins than what I do - this is a serious turn-off for me). I find this, at best, disappointing. Because the writer could have chosen to try to write a believable and truly consensual sex scene. In my view, that's more win-win, as it's something that's less likely to upset the fans of the characters involved. And some of us just don't like rape content, period.

So, using your logic, who are you to judge me for preferring consensual sex scenes over rape?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
I have characters I'm fond of, but I'm not sure I'd ascribe my emotional attachment to be that deep.

It's just not a subject that has bothered me much. Some doujins/fanfics can take established characters/settings into unexpected and interesting ways. I may not always like it, but I won't begrudge the writer for it.
Not criticizing what you don't like just means you're more likely to get more of what you don't like.

Criticism can be helpful at times. As a frequent fanfic writer myself, I welcome constructive criticism. I want to know when readers think I'm writing a character OoC, or when they think I'm not being fair to a particular character. I probably won't always agree with the reader, but sometimes the reader might change my mind, and then that may result in me improving as a fanfic writer or making some helpful adjustments to a fanfic-in-progress.
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Old 2015-05-07, 15:57   Link #16
Solace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Not criticizing what you don't like just means you're more likely to get more of what you don't like.
Or I could praise what I do like, and encourage people to make more of that. Cuts both ways.
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Old 2015-05-07, 16:08   Link #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
Or I could praise what I do like, and encourage people to make more of that.
Or you could do both that and criticize what you don't like. I think that's what is most likely to have the most influence on what you read, and what the anime/otaku fandom produces.

I don't think people should go out of their way to find fanfics or doujins they don't like, but if you come across one during a general search, then offering some feedback to that effect might have an impact. Especially if it's mixed with honest compliment as well.

Something like "Great artwork, but I didn't like the story because you made it seem terribly torturous for Character XYZ"
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Old 2015-05-07, 18:55   Link #18
Marcus H.
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This is why I only fap to original manga, not doujins.
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Old 2015-05-07, 20:42   Link #19
GDiddy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
And sometimes that may come across as degrading to the character (or even downright bashing of the character), which naturally is upsetting to that character's fans, and those character's fans have every right to voice their criticisms and complaints over it.

Freedom of expression is important, but that's not the same as freedom from mere criticism. If you present a character in a way that some people will find offensive and/or very OoC, you should be prepared to face some criticism for it.

Fanfics and fanworks that don't degrade/humiliate characters in the way that the OP is describing are preferable to fanfics and fanworks that do degrade characters in that way, all else being equal. I agree with the OP on that.




I disagree. Honestly, I think "a complete reverse" is disrespectful to the character's creator and to the character itself. At least it is unless the fanwork provides a good reason in the fanwork itself for such a drastic character change.

If they just take the character, and present them completely OoC pretty much right off the bat, then that's either bad writing or disrespectful of the character or both, in my opinion.


And I find it a bit ironic that you agreed with what GDiddy wrote, because I would argue that some fanfic writers taking positions like your own is a big part of the reason why fanfiction often has a bad reputation. When people read fanfiction, it's typically because they want to read characters they know and like in new and different stories. That's undermined when characters are presented very OoC - Writing a character OoC defeats much of the very reason that many people would turn to fanfics to begin with.
This pretty much sums up what I meant.

I hate the rape stuff because it's just OoC for the most part and I find it disrespectful to the creator's vision as well.
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Old 2015-05-07, 21:45   Link #20
Solace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Or you could do both that and criticize what you don't like. I think that's what is most likely to have the most influence on what you read, and what the anime/otaku fandom produces.

I don't think people should go out of their way to find fanfics or doujins they don't like, but if you come across one during a general search, then offering some feedback to that effect might have an impact. Especially if it's mixed with honest compliment as well.

Something like "Great artwork, but I didn't like the story because you made it seem terribly torturous for Character XYZ"
I'm not really the kind of person that drops comments on random things I come across during a search.

I get what you're saying, but my point was that positive feedback without criticism is just as valuable. You don't have to give negative feedback, nor do you have to balance it with likes/dislikes. Everyone communicates differently.
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