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Old 2010-10-04, 11:52   Link #281
Kaoru Chujo
Sakura Ayane
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky Controversy View Post
...my feeling that the story is more about the family situation--which is less than great--and how Kirino and Kyousuke find some sort of fulfillment in spite of it, that her self-confinement is caused by her family life seems like a good route to explore. Further, I also put forth the idea that her Imouto-con hobby is not actually a misplaced brother complex, but a cry for any sort of affection as an Imouto herself. It's less about specifically wanting a brother-sister romance and more that such eroge are the only route she has found to really see the concept of a beloved little sister played out in the consistency she'd like....
I feel a bit silly trying to do psychological analysis on an ecchi comedy, but I like these ideas. Dad is such a heavy weight of demand that Kirino escapes by going off modelling and by finding delight in little sisters. Of course, she only gets permission to model by being excellent in school.

Kyousuke is under even more pressure, being the first-born son, and has just submitted, submerging his own feelings and aiming to do well in school and accept the honorable but dead life of a salaryman.

Kirino seeks delight in little sisters as a way of approaching what she feels she should be but isn't: the cute little imouto. In fact, she is rather masculine, at least on the surface, pushy and demanding, and enjoys being the beloved nii-san in her games. The masculine personality and need to escape from her overbearing father and submissive mother, both predate her interest in the hobby.
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Old 2010-10-04, 11:53   Link #282
relentlessflame
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky Controversy View Post
Given my feeling that the story is more about the family situation--which is less than great--and how Kirino and Kyousuke find some sort of fulfillment in spite of it, that her self-confinement is caused by her family life seems like a good route to explore. Further, I also put forth the idea that her Imouto-con hobby is not actually a misplaced brother complex, but a cry for any sort of affection as an Imouto herself. It's less about specifically wanting a brother-sister romance and more that such eroge are the only route she has found to really see the concept of a beloved little sister played out in the consistency she'd like.
Yeah, interesting speculation. I actually tend to think that Kirino's family life actually probably isn't (or wouldn't be) that bad but, being an over-achiever, she likely developed a bit of a praise complex and closed off from the rest of her family. She spends her days being the "perfect girl" while keeping everyone at a safe distance, and thus you may be right that these games are her sort of "outlet". Really, if Kirino wants any sort of affectionate relationship from her family, she has to be willing to let the walls down a bit and reveal her imperfect side, which is what the first episode was mostly about. (The fact that her inner self includes this "secretive taboo" hobby is more of a convenient catalyst that forces the door open.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
Personally I have a different take on Kirino's character in this series, that rather than a negative presentation of otaku or whatever, that I find Kirino more of a case of how otaku aren't, and shouldn't, easily be pigeonholed into a bunch if pimply introverted geeks who spend more time on their PCs and TVs memorizing airing dates than giving a damn about the rest of the world.
Hmm... this may be true, but I'm not sure. I think Kirino's outgoing go-getter attitude is a bit of a show she puts on. The real Kirino is the one we saw when she opened her closet: a bit self-centered, borderline-obsessive, slightly abrasive, and so on. So yes, not everyone who has these hobbies is your stereotypical recluse, but is that only because they have to put on a good show in order to get by in the world? And if that's the case, just how positive is that message?

So, on the one hand, I agree -- not everyone who is interested in these hobbies falls into the stereotypes, and this show does support that (much like Haruka Nogizaka, no one expects "perfect girls" to be into something so "reviled"). On the other hand, if you're trying to use this show as an example of how people with these hobbies can be every day normal people... I'm not sure Kirino is a shining example, at least from what we've seen so far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
I feel a bit silly trying to do psychological analysis on an ecchi comedy, but I like these ideas.
Well, yeah, all this discussion assumes that there is some sort of deep basis in the author's mind for all this that has yet to be revealed. It's fun to speculate, but I don't think anyone's taking this all that seriously.
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Old 2010-10-04, 12:01   Link #283
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I can see why people think Kirino has a brother complex, but I think she just really wants to get along with him better. She admitted that she thought (or even feared) he'd laugh at her or find her weird for liking this stuff, so she probably kept a distance to prevent herself from being hurt. When he proved to be somewhat open to it, she probably considered that having him get exposed to her hobby himself will eventually bring the two closer together, since then he'll start understanding her more.

And I'm sure more people (possibly even the parents) will eventually found out about it.

Anyway, first episode was very good. This could become one of my favorites of this season.
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Old 2010-10-04, 12:04   Link #284
Ricky Controversy
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Well, yeah, all this discussion assumes that there is some sort of deep basis in the author's mind for all this that has yet to be revealed. It's fun to speculate, but I don't think anyone's taking this all that seriously.
Haha, don't say something like that, you're just begging for somebody to open the author's intent vs. available content debate, which never ends. Ever!

Quote:
So, on the one hand, I agree -- not everyone who is interested in these hobbies falls into the stereotypes, and this show does support that (much like Haruka Nogizaka, no one expects "perfect girls" to be into something so "reviled"). On the other hand, if you're trying to use this show as an example of how people with these hobbies can be every day normal people... I'm not sure Kirino is a shining example, at least from what we've seen so far.
I agree here. Kirino is not particularly well-adjusted. But that's why I take a broader 'family-focused' view, rather than something specifically targeted on Kirino. That Kyousuke and Kirino end up in this together despite the vast gulf between their personalities seems to say less about Kirino and more about understanding in general.

Kyousuke's crowning moment in the first episode is, after all, when he makes it clear that he will not look down on Kirino for her hobby, despite her treatment of him in the past.
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Old 2010-10-04, 12:52   Link #285
Kaoru Chujo
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There is a lot of opinion on 2channel that Taketatsu Ayana is doing a poor job. A Japanese blog did a bit of an informal survey at an event. Here are the results for who else people would like to have the two main female roles:

Kirino: Tomatsu Haruka (1), Kugimiya Rie, Hirano Aya, Kitamura Eri.
Kuroneko: Tanaka Rie (1), Sawashiro Miyuki, Tamura Yukari, Kugimiya Rie.

Personally, I'm not jumping to conclusions and will just enjoy whatever Taketatsu brings for 2-3 episodes before committing to an opinion. But there is certainly a possibility that she has been shot to the top too quickly and given roles she isn't suited for.

One thing I've noticed about Japanese otaku, however: they seem to prefer the seiyuus they know to just about any new seiyuu, and seem to prize a homogenized "professional" sound above anything unusual.
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Old 2010-10-04, 12:59   Link #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
There is a lot of opinion on 2channel that Taketatsu Ayana is doing a poor job. A Japanese blog did a bit of an informal survey at an event. Here are the results for who else people would like to have the two main female roles:

Kirino: Tomatsu Haruka (1), Kugimiya Rie, Hirano Aya, Kitamura Eri.
Kuroneko: Tanaka Rie (1), Sawashiro Miyuki, Tamura Yukari, Kugimiya Rie.

Personally, I'm not jumping to conclusions and will just enjoy whatever Taketatsu brings for 2-3 episodes before committing to an opinion. But there is certainly a possibility that she has been shot to the top too quickly and given roles she isn't suited for.

One thing I've noticed about Japanese otaku, however: they seem to prefer the seiyuus they know to just about any new seiyuu, and seem to prize a homogenized "professional" sound above anything unusual.
As resident seiyuu connoisseur, I agree that Ayana is horribly miscast in this (and MM).
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Old 2010-10-04, 13:02   Link #287
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I think everyone is thinking too deeply into this and just see it as it is.
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Old 2010-10-04, 13:07   Link #288
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I can't say I was impressed by her performance in the first episode, but I wouldn't go as far as to say she did a poor job. It's a bit hard for me to judge her performance since I don't know Kirino very well, I will also have to wait a few episodes before forming an opinion. I haven't heard Taketatsu much either so I'm not sure what her forte is (I thought she did a very good job in Bakatest), thus I can't tell if she's been miscast.

I'm a bit surprised about the Kuroneko results. It looks like this character may be completely different from what I imagined.
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Old 2010-10-04, 13:11   Link #289
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On the one hand, it is pretty weird hearing Azu-nyan being so passionate about eroge and imouto.

On the other hand, it makes the joke about sisters with black hair and twin tails flat-out hilarious.
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Old 2010-10-04, 13:20   Link #290
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Nice first episode. I loled so hard when the main lead was playing that game in the end. And is it just me or the interactions between the little sis and Kyousuke feels a lot like Kyon-Haruhi at some part?
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Old 2010-10-04, 13:39   Link #291
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this show made me laugh out loud 3 times. that hasn't happened since that student council show. props. it mostly had to do with the fetal position. and the mom's reaction to it. haha
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Old 2010-10-04, 14:02   Link #292
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Old 2010-10-04, 14:13   Link #293
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This show's budget / production values pisses me off.

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Old 2010-10-04, 14:22   Link #294
Kaoru Chujo
Sakura Ayane
 
 
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Taketatsu Ayana. On the other hand, try to see the new OVA Hiyokoi, which just came out with a volume of its manga. I think Ayanyan is perfect there. The situation is a lot like Kimi ni Todoke, and I prefer her to Noto Mamiko in the similar role.
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Old 2010-10-04, 14:38   Link #295
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That was excellent! Alto and Azunyan were great, so was the animation and soundtrack. A lot funnier too, compared to reading the manga or novel.
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Old 2010-10-04, 14:46   Link #296
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Eh, Macross Frontier wasn't all that great. I more readily think of him as Tomoya, myself.
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Old 2010-10-04, 14:47   Link #297
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Watching that overbearing ungrateful little bitch Kirino pushing her brother around, making him do as she will and NOT ONCE even referring to him by name, much less thanking him is the first time since Fist of the North Star that I wanted to punch a hole through my screen; and not in the good way, mind you.

Seriously, there's cute tsundere and there is just being a plain fucking bitch, and Kirino fits squarely into the latter.

Sticking with this series to root for the big brother's struggles, NOT the title character.
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Old 2010-10-04, 14:53   Link #298
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Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
Kirino: Tomatsu Haruka (1), Kugimiya Rie, Hirano Aya, Kitamura Eri.
Tomatsu Haruka was actually my pick too, before the cast was announced. Though I could see KitaEri in the role too. But like you I think I'll withhold judgment for a few episodes...
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Old 2010-10-04, 15:01   Link #299
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"screw that, kicker her out of my bed!"

terrible, terrible choice... i'd go with the 2nd option.

not suggesting i'd go play these games though.
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Old 2010-10-04, 15:07   Link #300
ID555
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Originally Posted by DJLowrider View Post
Eh, Macross Frontier wasn't all that great. I more readily think of him as Tomoya, myself.

Frontier was the more recent show for me, haha.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordy Lechance View Post
Watching that overbearing ungrateful little bitch Kirino pushing her brother around, making him do as she will and NOT ONCE even referring to him by name, much less thanking him is the first time since Fist of the North Star that I wanted to punch a hole through my screen.

Seriously, there's cute tsundere and there is just being a plain fucking bitch, and Kirino fits squarely into the latter.

Sticking with this series to root for the big brother's struggles, NOT the title character.


I think it's a pretty acceptable portrayal how a teenage little sister treats her brother, as in not needing to pull any punches. In their case the lack of communication is a little extreme, though.
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