AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Related Topics > Fan Creations

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2010-05-04, 00:57   Link #1
Wing Zero Alpha
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Cool Code Geass Megiddo

By request, I've made a thread to showcase my CG fanfiction and all information pertaining to them on this site.

Code Geass Megiddo
Code Geass Megiddo: Word Dramas
Code Geass Fanon Wiki (Megiddo Section)

Any and all comments and reviews are welcome, both here in this thread and on FF.net.
Wing Zero Alpha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-05-10, 00:20   Link #2
Wing Zero Alpha
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Quote:
Strangely, Kallen with longer hair reminds me more of a Valkyrie then her with shorter hair. Although I have to ask this: Will we see artwork of Kallen and Lelouch in their chapter 1 & 2 clothing?
Possibly. I wouldn't mind seeing that as well.

Quote:
Where are some points that you describe her hair as being grown out from her resistance days? I'll need to read through the story again, but there is at least one point early in Stage 5 when describing her dress where her hair is described as short and done in the style of her old days at Ashford.
I editted that in an earlier revision of that chapter, but then it might have popped up again during the latest rounds (no pun intended) of revision work since I pretty much put updated chapters up from scratch. Either way, I'll check it myself.

Quote:
In the case of Megiddo, while some of it is indeed merely aesthetics, it is more a symbolic thing as the change seems to emphasize to the audience just how much we have missed of Kallen's growth and, to me, makes her feel a bit too "alien."
Actually, the longer hair does have symbolism to it, similar to Bonzo's in that it represents Kallen's development. Much like how Lelouch is remarkably different from his season one incarnation, this is not the same Kallen Kouzuki from the series: she's grown into a far more professional soldier and commander, losing much of her teenage brashness and gaining more stability and the tactical sense necessary for her position. For outside reference, I liken her development to Ceres Victoria from Hellsing, in that she started out as a talented and capable fighter girl that was only limited by her personality flaws and transformed into a true professional, an even greater force to be reckoned with. That said, I guess in a way the "alien" feeling fits her, especially when combined with her Geass.

Quote:
As well, the spikes seemed to symbolize her attitude and ties to Japan and her identity as a Japanese person, and I don't see her as losing them until she believes she no longer needs to fight and can in effect establish an identity for herself outside of combat. In the Birthday Picture Drama, she seems to have taken something of an inbetween hairstyle with her keeping the spikes, but having them droop slightly, as though accepting both sides of herself, though that is likely just me reading WAY too much into it.
I considered that as well, but in that regard, remember that Japan was lost and Kallen came to an understanding with her Britannian half through her father just before the Devastation. Therefore I saw her as adopting a style that seperates her from both her faux life as a Britannian student and her life as a Japanese revolutionary, instead becoming what could best be described as Black Knight ace. Either way, once more she's very much different from her season one self.

Quote:
Also, since you're likely to read this WZA, I want to apologize for sounding like a whiny #@%&.
Nah, I don't mind. We all have our opinions and I'm always looking out for what people think of my work.
Wing Zero Alpha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-05-10, 19:54   Link #3
Betteroffer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wing Zero Alpha View Post
I editted that in an earlier revision of that chapter, but then it might have popped up again during the latest rounds (no pun intended) of revision work since I pretty much put updated chapters up from scratch. Either way, I'll check it myself.
For the retcon of her longer hair, there is no mention of it in the first scene of Stage 4 and this is really where it should go, as it makes us aware of it as soon as possible, similar to the reference of Tohdoh's goatee coming up in the first scene with him later in the chapter. Something like her running a hand through it (her hair, not Tohdoh's goatee), removing or adjusting a band she wears to keep it out of her way while in the Guren, and a similar explanation of it as what is given for Tohdoh (longer overall, but the bangs remain the same).

For the mention in Stage 5 as Alfred "appraises" her, it would work better as merely describing her hair length (to the small of her back if I am recalling Bonzo's picture correctly) and the way it is worn. Perhaps calling it "vibrant" or something to illustrate its notability. Similarly, small mentions of it when Lelouch and Suzaku each see her during the chapter. Something like Lelouch noting that her hair is unlike his visions, but it is still unmistakably her, and Suzaku similarly recognizing her despite his lack of a photographic memory and her long hair.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wing Zero Alpha View Post
Actually, the longer hair does have symbolism to it, similar to Bonzo's in that it represents Kallen's development. Much like how Lelouch is remarkably different from his season one incarnation, this is not the same Kallen Kouzuki from the series: she's grown into a far more professional soldier and commander, losing much of her teenage brashness and gaining more stability and the tactical sense necessary for her position. For outside reference, I liken her development to Ceres Victoria from Hellsing, in that she started out as a talented and capable fighter girl that was only limited by her personality flaws and transformed into a true professional, an even greater force to be reckoned with. That said, I guess in a way the "alien" feeling fits her, especially when combined with her Geass.
I was actually refering to the reasons for my feelings about the change, rather than any perceived symbolism it did or didn't have. I meant that while part of my feelings were simply that I did like her anime hairstyle as it was a bit more unique (as far as I know since I'm more of a casual anime watcher), the new style also made her feel too different. That, as you said, she isn't the same character and that this revelation is just sort of thrust on us with the hair, rather than drawn out as shown with the gradual hints of what is wrong with Suzaku. The implications that she has "overcome" much of her canon self without getting to see the development is also saddening.

While I can certainly see her growing as a soldier, I can't really say the same for her core as a person. Much of the essence of Kallen, like Lelouch and Suzaku, was that she was someone whose time had "stopped" so to speak thanks to the tragedies of her life and that while she wanted to grow up quickly so she could change things in the world of adults, she was at her core a child who was lost and looking for an identity for herself. She may have had Ohgi and the others, but whatever their relationship was, she still saw no hope in her fighting after Naoto died, yet continued on while believing it would kill her, much like Lelouch with the Ashford students and Nunally. It was through Zero that she finally felt her life and by extension Naoto's could be given meaning, as she mentioned to Suzaku.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wing Zero Alpha View Post
I considered that as well, but in that regard, remember that Japan was lost and Kallen came to an understanding with her Britannian half through her father just before the Devastation. Therefore I saw her as adopting a style that seperates her from both her faux life as a Britannian student and her life as a Japanese revolutionary, instead becoming what could best be described as Black Knight ace. Either way, once more she's very much different from her season one self.
This to me was really the essence of Code Geass: young characters who force themselves to live in the world of adults to survive, yet are still tied to their past traumas (familiar eh?). Lelouch couldn't let go of the death of his mother and being tossed aside by his father, Suzaku couldn't let go of killing Genbu and his need to atone, and Kallen couldn't let go of Naoto's death to the point that she, like Lelouch, lost the ability to define herself outside of an external role i.e. fulfilling Naoto's dream of fighting to free Japan, only going to Ashford at all because Naoto wanted her to be in a good school. She lived entirely for other people and was driven by the cause more than anything.

I don't see the loss of Japan as freeing her from its influence, but only furthering her ties to it until she is able to see that these same sentiments are what brought about the destruction of her home and family in the first place. She may have come to terms with her Britannian side, but she still lost everything due to Britannia. I'm not saying I see her calling for every Britannians' blood, but that she would be afraid or unsure of how to voice anything other than anger until Zero was able to state again that it was the system and the world that were the enemy rather than the people, much like on the train in the first season.
Betteroffer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-05-10, 22:28   Link #4
Wing Zero Alpha
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betteroffer View Post
For the retcon of her longer hair, there is no mention of it in the first scene of Stage 4 and this is really where it should go, as it makes us aware of it as soon as possible, similar to the reference of Tohdoh's goatee coming up in the first scene with him later in the chapter. Something like her running a hand through it (her hair, not Tohdoh's goatee), removing or adjusting a band she wears to keep it out of her way while in the Guren, and a similar explanation of it as what is given for Tohdoh (longer overall, but the bangs remain the same).
Probably would have worked better, but I didn't think about it at the time, since I had her keep her short hair from the series when I first wrote it and figured everyone would see her as such.

Quote:
For the mention in Stage 5 as Alfred "appraises" her, it would work better as merely describing her hair length (to the small of her back if I am recalling Bonzo's picture correctly) and the way it is worn. Perhaps calling it "vibrant" or something to illustrate its notability. Similarly, small mentions of it when Lelouch and Suzaku each see her during the chapter. Something like Lelouch noting that her hair is unlike his visions, but it is still unmistakably her, and Suzaku similarly recognizing her despite his lack of a photographic memory and her long hair.
Same as above, I didn't consider retconning that much, since I felt only a small mention was necessary. Just as well, remember that Lelouch didn't have a clear image of Kallen in his memories of her; as such, I meant for his recognition of her to be instinctive rather than his matching her current features with her past ones. As for Suzaku, he would have picked her out of a crowd anyway without taking note of her longer hair.

Quote:
I was actually refering to the reasons for my feelings about the change, rather than any perceived symbolism it did or didn't have. I meant that while part of my feelings were simply that I did like her anime hairstyle as it was a bit more unique (as far as I know since I'm more of a casual anime watcher), the new style also made her feel too different. That, as you said, she isn't the same character and that this revelation is just sort of thrust on us with the hair, rather than drawn out as shown with the gradual hints of what is wrong with Suzaku. The implications that she has "overcome" much of her canon self without getting to see the development is also saddening.
I figured people would understand that she was different from the way she more stable and commanding than how she was in the series, where she was just shown as the Asuka Langley Soryu-esque "ace of the Black Knights" as opposed to a leader like her position dictated. As for the last part, that's what the Word Dramas are for, much like how the Picture and Audio Dramas operated in the canon series. I just haven't gotten that far on them yet.

Quote:
While I can certainly see her growing as a soldier, I can't really say the same for her core as a person. Much of the essence of Kallen, like Lelouch and Suzaku, was that she was someone whose time had "stopped" so to speak thanks to the tragedies of her life and that while she wanted to grow up quickly so she could change things in the world of adults, she was at her core a child who was lost and looking for an identity for herself. She may have had Ohgi and the others, but whatever their relationship was, she still saw no hope in her fighting after Naoto died, yet continued on while believing it would kill her, much like Lelouch with the Ashford students and Nunally. It was through Zero that she finally felt her life and by extension Naoto's could be given meaning, as she mentioned to Suzaku.
It hasn't changed that much with her character. While she is no longer a child, Kallen is still a conflicted person at heart; rather than her seeking out an identity for herself, she's now wondering whether the identity she has found is the truth (that it was by her choice that she became Lelouch's knight and queen) or whether she is being manipulated (that Lelouch used his Geass to force her into becoming his piece). As such, while she is willing to continue being "Q1" (for a lack of better description) for the time being, she still has many doubts within her about who she is and what she can do.

Quote:
This to me was really the essence of Code Geass: young characters who force themselves to live in the world of adults to survive, yet are still tied to their past traumas (familiar eh?). Lelouch couldn't let go of the death of his mother and being tossed aside by his father, Suzaku couldn't let go of killing Genbu and his need to atone, and Kallen couldn't let go of Naoto's death to the point that she, like Lelouch, lost the ability to define herself outside of an external role i.e. fulfilling Naoto's dream of fighting to free Japan, only going to Ashford at all because Naoto wanted her to be in a good school. She lived entirely for other people and was driven by the cause more than anything.
I don't see how that's any different now. Kallen may have made peace with the fact she's half-Britannian (whereas before she only identified herself as Japanese), but she hasn't been able to let go of her past, i.e. her family. As I wrote with her "near death scene" in Chapter 08 and her reminiscing over the grave markers in Chapter 10, she's fighting to change the world out of the memory of Naoto and her parents. Beyond that, there's one other reason why she's fighting on, and I'm sure certain people can figure out, but for the sake of not making any spoilers I won't mention it.

Quote:
I don't see the loss of Japan as freeing her from its influence, but only furthering her ties to it until she is able to see that these same sentiments are what brought about the destruction of her home and family in the first place. She may have come to terms with her Britannian side, but she still lost everything due to Britannia. I'm not saying I see her calling for every Britannians' blood, but that she would be afraid or unsure of how to voice anything other than anger until Zero was able to state again that it was the system and the world that were the enemy rather than the people, much like on the train in the first season.
The thing here is the Devastation of Japan didn't just effect the Japanese, as it also effected the Britannians that were left behind. It's because of that fact that you notice the Black Knights have not retained traditional Japanese xenophobia and have actually embraced the surviving Britannians as among their number. As such, Kallen recognizes that it isn't the regular Britannian citizenry that was responsible for Japan's destruction, but rather those that run the Empire itself. As well, aside from the obvious reasons for her initial hatred towards Britannians, a good portion of her hate stemmed from her perception that her father did not care for her or her mother, and only kept them around out of charity. This obviously turned out to be untrue (in Megiddo at least), as her father explained the truth to her and that after the SAZ he wished to reestablish their family. With that sudden change in character perception, it was only natural that Kallen see her Britannian side in a more positive light, such that she would finally accept that she is both Britannian and Japanese.
Wing Zero Alpha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-05-11, 18:44   Link #5
Arbitres
Disabled By Request
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
On a particular note, I can't remember whether or not you related Lelouch to Faust.

I think if you researched Faust, they are frighteningly similar, on several things. An idea I decided to throw out, Wing. Since I think it might help Megiddo. Though you might have already made the connection, it's all so very detailed I can't remember everything.

Quote:
Tohdoh's goatee
And Chiba's aging features. Though... I wonder what Asahina looks like now? The most I got out of him is he has a spiteful dislike for anything expresso. Which may I say, was a fun scene to read.

I can't wait for the new chapter, though the end of the current chapter depressed me,

Spoiler for Meggido chapter:


Nevertheless, good job.
Arbitres is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-05-11, 21:35   Link #6
Betteroffer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wing Zero Alpha View Post
Probably would have worked better, but I didn't think about it at the time, since I had her keep her short hair from the series when I first wrote it and figured everyone would see her as such.
I mean that since you mentioned doing a retcon itself that a mention and description of the change in Kallen's first appearance, even if her hair wasn't originally noted as being short in that scene, should be made. I imagine it would leave new readers confused to be envisioning Kallen as she normally looked for all of Stage 4, only to be hit with the sudden mention that they should have been picturing her with hair like the other females characters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wing Zero Alpha View Post
I figured people would understand that she was different from the way she more stable and commanding than how she was in the series, where she was just shown as the Asuka Langley Soryu-esque "ace of the Black Knights" as opposed to a leader like her position dictated. As for the last part, that's what the Word Dramas are for, much like how the Picture and Audio Dramas operated in the canon series. I just haven't gotten that far on them yet.
Well, while she was brash I wouldn't call her an Asuka. Kallen seemed perfectly serious in combat, not whining like Tamaki or blaming things on teamates and generally being a good soldier (though I shouldn't talk as I have no real experience to guage), like when she tried to get the Holy Swords to not attack Suzaku, insisting that they wait until Zero gave them orders.

Devotion was her central character trait and it showed in her being at the top of her classes in Ashford, despite her absences and the fact that she originally didn't seem to want to be there. This, along with the seriousness of her desire to fulfill Naoto's dream, really made her come of as professional to me, or at least more so than many shonen-esque heroes in similar positions.

Similarly while I may be reading too much into this, she seemed to be able to take a measure of command and initiative during Shinjuku in stopping Nagata from using C.C.'s "gas" capsule, and telling Ohgi that they should act to ensure that the civilians were able to escape, and only risk themselves. True, we never see her acting as an actual commander for Zero Squad, but the fact that Lelouch put a whole unit under her implies that she did naturally have a measure of ability to lead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wing Zero Alpha View Post
It hasn't changed that much with her character. While she is no longer a child, Kallen is still a conflicted person at heart; rather than her seeking out an identity for herself, she's now wondering whether the identity she has found is the truth (that it was by her choice that she became Lelouch's knight and queen) or whether she is being manipulated (that Lelouch used his Geass to force her into becoming his piece). As such, while she is willing to continue being "Q1" (for a lack of better description) for the time being, she still has many doubts within her about who she is and what she can do.
Ahh, I think this is the core of where our opinions differ. If I'm understanding correctly, you are going off the idea that she would follow through with the identity put before her and experience a measure of growth to her core as a person in addition to refining her soldier aspect, while I am of the opinion that while the revelations from her father would have helped her under normal circumstances, the cumulative losses she suffered from the Devastation along with the traumatic revelation of Zero's identity, and the possibility that she was being mindcontrolled, would again freeze her in place, much like the original loss of Naoto, preventing any deeper growth to her character until she could get an answer to whether her choices were her own. She may resolve herself to continue on, regardless of the answer, but that she still needed an answer first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wing Zero Alpha View Post
The thing here is the Devastation of Japan didn't just effect the Japanese, as it also effected the Britannians that were left behind. It's because of that fact that you notice the Black Knights have not retained traditional Japanese xenophobia and have actually embraced the surviving Britannians as among their number. As such, Kallen recognizes that it isn't the regular Britannian citizenry that was responsible for Japan's destruction, but rather those that run the Empire itself. As well, aside from the obvious reasons for her initial hatred towards Britannians, a good portion of her hate stemmed from her perception that her father did not care for her or her mother, and only kept them around out of charity. This obviously turned out to be untrue (in Megiddo at least), as her father explained the truth to her and that after the SAZ he wished to reestablish their family. With that sudden change in character perception, it was only natural that Kallen see her Britannian side in a more positive light, such that she would finally accept that she is both Britannian and Japanese.
I was confused because at several points Tohdoh thinks to himself how he is aware that many among the BK would love to see everyone in Pendragon if not all of Britannia killed, and he himself would not be satisfied "merely" with the sacking of Pendragon (I was wondering if Rikichi or someone similar would say they should have just annihilated the palace with the Raikous). Similarly, while Zero Squad is apparently intended to be an eccentric unit, the Japanese members still showed a rather enthusiastic attitude to killing Britannians despite half the unit being made of Britannians, to say nothing of Rikichi's sentiments.

What I meant on Kallen, was that with the loss of Japan, she might want to strengthen her ties to it, given her status as one of the last Japanese, out of a sense of obligation as much as affection for the culture and the fear of it being lost completely, a la a sort of "If not me, then who?" sense of responsibility.
Betteroffer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-05-12, 01:55   Link #7
Wing Zero Alpha
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betteroffer View Post
I mean that since you mentioned doing a retcon itself that a mention and description of the change in Kallen's first appearance, even if her hair wasn't originally noted as being short in that scene, should be made. I imagine it would leave new readers confused to be envisioning Kallen as she normally looked for all of Stage 4, only to be hit with the sudden mention that they should have been picturing her with hair like the other females characters.
Possibly, but Kallen's character profile will fix that once I get it up on the wiki (whenever I get around to it), since as I said before I plan on uploading the picture Bonzo drew for me there. My main problem with constantly going back and retconning past chapters is that I recently removed the uploaded chapters off of my FF.net author profile, since it will only hold 15 at a time, and that if I were to retcon any past chapter beyond Chapter 10, I would have to go through the process all over again. To make matters worse, I made several edits using FF.net's editor software as opposed to doing it in MSWord, which means if I were to re-upload a past chapter, it would lack many of the later edits I made, and it's a pain in the @$$ to remember all of them and replace them. Call me lazy, but that's more of a hassle than it's worth, especially when I've already got my hands full writing newer chapters.

Quote:
Well, while she was brash I wouldn't call her an Asuka. Kallen seemed perfectly serious in combat, not whining like Tamaki or blaming things on teamates and generally being a good soldier (though I shouldn't talk as I have no real experience to guage), like when she tried to get the Holy Swords to not attack Suzaku, insisting that they wait until Zero gave them orders.
I didn't mean she was an Asuka clone, I meant in the context she was the "red ace" of the series. You see them pop off and on in different animes, with the earliest one I can remember being Char Aznable of Mobile Suit Gundam fame; ace pilots, either male or female and on either side, that utilize custom mecha that are painted in crimson red and often utilize high mobility and hit-and-run tactics in battle, being able to take out up to hundreds of enemy machines or a single "boss" units at a time. Asuka and Kallen are just two that follow that line.

Quote:
Devotion was her central character trait and it showed in her being at the top of her classes in Ashford, despite her absences and the fact that she originally didn't seem to want to be there. This, along with the seriousness of her desire to fulfill Naoto's dream, really made her come of as professional to me, or at least more so than many shonen-esque heroes in similar positions.
Her devotion made her heroic and noble, as well as more willing to follow orders than others, but at the same time she was supposed to have been one of the key leaders in the Black Knights and of Lelouch's personal squadron, which she was never displayed to act as beyond the third or fourth episode of R2 (the one where Lelouch rescues the rest of the BK from execution). I've never been in the military myself, but I'm good friends with several people in the Armed Forces, both American and international, and I know that someone in Kallen's rank and position would be required to be more than just a good pilot. It's one of the things that bothered me when Lelouch was looking over her stats, as her intelligence and charisma ratings were quite low in contrast to her supposedly being a commander (which requires high ratings of both).

Quote:
Similarly while I may be reading too much into this, she seemed to be able to take a measure of command and initiative during Shinjuku in stopping Nagata from using C.C.'s "gas" capsule, and telling Ohgi that they should act to ensure that the civilians were able to escape, and only risk themselves. True, we never see her acting as an actual commander for Zero Squad, but the fact that Lelouch put a whole unit under her implies that she did naturally have a measure of ability to lead.
It implies but is never shown. Ah well, no point in beating a dead horse here since I already listed my answer to this above. As for the Shinjuku points, Kallen wasn't really commanding so much as she was speaking against Nagata's initiative and reminding Ohgi of their priorities, as throughout the event Ohgi was the one giving orders before Lelouch stepped in.

Quote:
Ahh, I think this is the core of where our opinions differ. If I'm understanding correctly, you are going off the idea that she would follow through with the identity put before her and experience a measure of growth to her core as a person in addition to refining her soldier aspect, while I am of the opinion that while the revelations from her father would have helped her under normal circumstances, the cumulative losses she suffered from the Devastation along with the traumatic revelation of Zero's identity, and the possibility that she was being mindcontrolled, would again freeze her in place, much like the original loss of Naoto, preventing any deeper growth to her character until she could get an answer to whether her choices were her own. She may resolve herself to continue on, regardless of the answer, but that she still needed an answer first.
Pretty much. I can only agree to disagree with you on that one, since we both have different ideas of Kallen's character and how strong she is inside.

Quote:
I was confused because at several points Tohdoh thinks to himself how he is aware that many among the BK would love to see everyone in Pendragon if not all of Britannia killed, and he himself would not be satisfied "merely" with the sacking of Pendragon (I was wondering if Rikichi or someone similar would say they should have just annihilated the palace with the Raikous). Similarly, while Zero Squad is apparently intended to be an eccentric unit, the Japanese members still showed a rather enthusiastic attitude to killing Britannians despite half the unit being made of Britannians, to say nothing of Rikichi's sentiments.
Well, while the majority of the BK are more moralistic than their enemies, there are still a small number that think along Rikichi's line, in which all Britannians should suffer for the Devastation, civilian or soldier. In Tohdoh's case, he wasn't thinking about that (obviously), but rather he didn't want the Black Knights' vengeance to end at Pendragon; he wanted to go further than that and fight a full on war with Britannia much like Lelouch planned to do later.

As for Zero Squadron, you have to think of them in the context of the Aldo Raine's Basterds (who played an inspirational role in their creation); they're all merciless killers and specialists that love what they do in one way or another, but at the same time when they're talking about killing Britannians they mean killing Britannian soldiers as opposed to civilians. Despite their collective bloodlust, they're still the good guys, though it doesn't mean they're above collateral damage of course.

Quote:
What I meant on Kallen, was that with the loss of Japan, she might want to strengthen her ties to it, given her status as one of the last Japanese, out of a sense of obligation as much as affection for the culture and the fear of it being lost completely, a la a sort of "If not me, then who?" sense of responsibility.
Could have worked, but as said above, I had a different idea for her character development. In my opinion just as Kallen's hatred for Britannia came from her enstranged relationship with her father, I believe her pro-Japanese ideals came from her admiration for her brother, with his death making her take up the cause in his place; beyond that I couldn't see her having any more love for Japan than she would Britannia, as her mostly Britannian appearance would have made her scorned by Japanese society growing up. Thus, while Kallen is still fighting for Japan's memory at this time and still considers herself one of the last Japanese, her motivations are slowly starting to move away from that, and the subconscious change in her appearence shows it.

Last edited by Wing Zero Alpha; 2010-05-12 at 11:35.
Wing Zero Alpha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-05-12, 19:49   Link #8
Betteroffer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wing Zero Alpha View Post
Possibly, but Kallen's character profile will fix that once I get it up on the wiki (whenever I get around to it), since as I said before I plan on uploading the picture Bonzo drew for me there. My main problem with constantly going back and retconning past chapters is that I recently removed the uploaded chapters off of my FF.net author profile, since it will only hold 15 at a time, and that if I were to retcon any past chapter beyond Chapter 10, I would have to go through the process all over again. To make matters worse, I made several edits using FF.net's editor software as opposed to doing it in MSWord, which means if I were to re-upload a past chapter, it would lack many of the later edits I made, and it's a pain in the @$$ to remember all of them and replace them. Call me lazy, but that's more of a hassle than it's worth, especially when I've already got my hands full writing newer chapters.
I am speaking from comlpete ignorance here, but could you copy/paste the existing chapter as it appears on the site onto Word to keep the changes, or would this do something screwey to the format?

Quote:
Her devotion made her heroic and noble, as well as more willing to follow orders than others, but at the same time she was supposed to have been one of the key leaders in the Black Knights and of Lelouch's personal squadron, which she was never displayed to act as beyond the third or fourth episode of R2 (the one where Lelouch rescues the rest of the BK from execution). I've never been in the military myself, but I'm good friends with several people in the Armed Forces, both American and international, and I know that someone in Kallen's rank and position would be required to be more than just a good pilot. It's one of the things that bothered me when Lelouch was looking over her stats, as her intelligence and charisma ratings were quite low in contrast to her supposedly being a commander (which requires high ratings of both).
But as you said, she did show leadership in that situation. The rest of it could be blamed on the unorthodox setup of the battles through the rest of R2, and her being shelved for a third of the season. For the character chart, I honestly don't put much if any weight in it. I suppose this is a cheap arguement but canon or not, I just don't see many of the numbers making sense with the characters they represent. Tamaki's loyalty score alone should cast doubt on the chart's validity, but there are other point values I would contest as well. Truth be told, Tohdoh is the only person whose charisma score I can at all agree with.

Quote:
Could have worked, but as said above, I had a different idea for her character development. In my opinion just as Kallen's hatred for Britannia came from her enstranged relationship with her father, I believe her pro-Japanese ideals came from her admiration for her brother, with his death making her take up the cause in his place; beyond that I couldn't see her having any more love for Japan than she would Britannia, as her mostly Britannian appearance would have made her scorned by Japanese society growing up. Thus, while Kallen is still fighting for Japan's memory at this time and still considers herself one of the last Japanese, her motivations are slowly starting to move away from that, and the subconscious change in her appearence shows it.
I never really thought that her father's role, or lack thereof, in her life was a signifigant factor in her hate for Britannia. I always put it on the fact that she actually lived through the invasion itself and would have presumably seen or at least been fully aware of the fact that the Britannians were now visiting every indignity the Japanese had put on Kallen back onto them tenfold. Beyond this, if Kallen lived at all in the Tokyo area, then she would have been forced from her home and out into the ghettos, to further watch her people degrade. For all the ridicule she got, the Japanese at least let her keep her home.

While Kallen's appearance would have earned her scorn from her people, the actions of Britannia could just as easily impress in her a sense that the Japanese were justified in doing so all along, as it could make her think the invasion was merely karma coming back to them, and I would lean to the latter if only because Kallen would see her own family caught up in the oppression as well. Similarly, Kallen would at least have two members of the Japanese who showed her unconditional love and support from the beginning in the form of her family to counterbalance society at large. Beyond that, we know Ohgi and Naoto knew each other since around highschool at least, so she could have at least developed a friendly relationship with him and maybe even some of the other future resistence members. Conversly, the only exposure to Britannians we can be sure she had would be the knowledge that her Britannian father abandoned her and the rest of her family and then the inevitable invasion.
Betteroffer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-05-12, 23:24   Link #9
Wing Zero Alpha
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betteroffer View Post
I am speaking from comlpete ignorance here, but could you copy/paste the existing chapter as it appears on the site onto Word to keep the changes, or would this do something screwey to the format?
I've done that before, but then I have to reformat it on word so that when I reload it on FF.net it won't totally screw it up, and even then I would have to reformat it again on FF.net because of the flaws in the site's programming. It's a real pain in the @$$ process, but it beats using message boards. At the same time though, I only go through it all for major edits to the story, stuff that I can't afford to leave in or out.

Quote:
But as you said, she did show leadership in that situation. The rest of it could be blamed on the unorthodox setup of the battles through the rest of R2, and her being shelved for a third of the season. For the character chart, I honestly don't put much if any weight in it. I suppose this is a cheap arguement but canon or not, I just don't see many of the numbers making sense with the characters they represent. Tamaki's loyalty score alone should cast doubt on the chart's validity, but there are other point values I would contest as well. Truth be told, Tohdoh is the only person whose charisma score I can at all agree with.
She only showed it for a brief second and it was to rally the troops around the Guren before attacking the Britannians. That's hardly a display of Kallen's leadership skills, if she had any to begin with in the canon series. As for the chart, yeah, I wondered about Tamaki's loyalty score being so low as well, though Lelouch could have believed that Tamaki was just "rooting for a winner" so to speak and would drop Zero at the first sign of trouble. Ironically aside from Kallen, he was the last one to do as such.

Quote:
I never really thought that her father's role, or lack thereof, in her life was a signifigant factor in her hate for Britannia. I always put it on the fact that she actually lived through the invasion itself and would have presumably seen or at least been fully aware of the fact that the Britannians were now visiting every indignity the Japanese had put on Kallen back onto them tenfold. Beyond this, if Kallen lived at all in the Tokyo area, then she would have been forced from her home and out into the ghettos, to further watch her people degrade. For all the ridicule she got, the Japanese at least let her keep her home.
Britannia's treatment of her family would have contributed to the hatred, but I think her father exiling her, Naoto and their mother was the main focal point of her hate towards Britannians. Likewise, it wouldn't have mattered if the Japanese let her have a home, the fact is they would have hated her as much as or perhaps more so than the Britannians for being a half-breed; that alone would have caused her to hate the Japanese in turn, had it not been for her brother and perhaps Ohgi sticking up for her. Either way, that's the setup I'm following.

Quote:
While Kallen's appearance would have earned her scorn from her people, the actions of Britannia could just as easily impress in her a sense that the Japanese were justified in doing so all along, as it could make her think the invasion was merely karma coming back to them, and I would lean to the latter if only because Kallen would see her own family caught up in the oppression as well. Similarly, Kallen would at least have two members of the Japanese who showed her unconditional love and support from the beginning in the form of her family to counterbalance society at large. Beyond that, we know Ohgi and Naoto knew each other since around highschool at least, so she could have at least developed a friendly relationship with him and maybe even some of the other future resistence members. Conversly, the only exposure to Britannians we can be sure she had would be the knowledge that her Britannian father abandoned her and the rest of her family and then the inevitable invasion.
Having worked with children a good portion of my life, I can tell you that Kallen would not have thought on issues of race or nationality at that age. The simple logic is if one side treated her well and the other side didn't, Kallen would focus on the former side and hate the other. If both sides hated her, then Kallen would have hated both sides and possibly all humans in general; that was the attitude I saw in many children with two base ethnicities here in the US (usually white-black or white-hispanic) when they regarded other people, because that's how everyone treated them. As for your last point, that only cements my earlier claim that Kallen's pro-Japanese stance came from her admiration for her brother, which in turn would have stemmed for his looking out for her. If she had a similar relationship to Ohgi that she had to Naoto, then it would have worked the same way for him as well. All in all, it's pretty much canon anyway that Kallen's main motivations to fight were for her family, whether be it for her brother's memory or changing the world so she and her mother could live in peace. I'm merely following along with that and adding my own twist to it.

Last edited by Wing Zero Alpha; 2010-05-13 at 10:18.
Wing Zero Alpha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-05-13, 04:15   Link #10
Arbitres
Disabled By Request
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
I read the segment you presented me with, Wing.

He sounds very much in character, as you described. Though on a different note, I enjoyed some of the dialogue. Very well done as it highlighted the forementioned mood.

I'm looking forward to the rest of the chapter, but as I noted you should get a more professional critique.


Quote:
Ironically aside from Kallen, he was the last one to do as such.
I think Tamaki became loyal to Zero at Narita, and Lelouch simply denounced Tamaki for choosing the side he think would win, as you noted wing. Shinchiro was intolerable, yes. But he did remain loyal.


In particular, the Gekka Ryuho sounds very reliable, I'm looking forward to reading about it's performance.
Arbitres is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-05-13, 05:18   Link #11
Bonzo
I change anime endings.
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Italy
Age: 37
Send a message via MSN to Bonzo
I'll try to send you a Lelouch prototype tonight.
Bonzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-05-13, 20:02   Link #12
Betteroffer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wing Zero Alpha View Post
She only showed it for a brief second and it was to rally the troops around the Guren before attacking the Britannians. That's hardly a display of Kallen's leadership skills, if she had any to begin with in the canon series. As for the chart, yeah, I wondered about Tamaki's loyalty score being so low as well, though Lelouch could have believed that Tamaki was just "rooting for a winner" so to speak and would drop Zero at the first sign of trouble. Ironically aside from Kallen, he was the last one to do as such.
Well again going back to the formation of Zero Squad, Lelouch stated in that same scene (in regards to suspicions over Diethard) that he prioritized the ability to produce results, which would suggest that he felt Kallen was capable of the task in overall ability. As well, there was no real need to form an entire squadron under her when he could just as easily declare her his bodyguard in the field and put someone else as head of Zero Squad.

I considered the same point with Tamaki, but I don't think Lelouch would make that kind of mistake. At the absolute least, Tamaki's loyalty should have been higher than Chiba and Asahina who seemed to be actively pushing Tohdoh to take some measure of action in regards to Zero's secrecy. If your speculation on Tamaki is accurate, then Diethard should have similarly low loyalty.

As well, for two of the infamous Holy Swords, Chiba and Asahina both possess equal charisma to Kallen, and the Holy Swords were infact made into unit commanders in the first season. I think that this is enough to say either the chart scores have "levels" to them and a soldier with Kallen's level of intelligence and charisma is fit to at least command an individual unit, or the chart is just plain screwy.

Quote:
Britannia's treatment of her family would have contributed to the hatred, but I think her father exiling her, Naoto and their mother was the main focal point of her hate towards Britannians. Likewise, it wouldn't have mattered if the Japanese let her have a home, the fact is they would have hated her as much as or perhaps more so than the Britannians for being a half-breed; that alone would have caused her to hate the Japanese in turn, had it not been for her brother and perhaps Ohgi sticking up for her. Either way, that's the setup I'm following.
From what we see in the show, both sides were equally likely to start beating the other in the street if they were in a position to do so, but Britannia more liberally used its authority to kill non-Britannians, use them for slavery and entertainment, and force them from their homes into filthy conditions. I can't speak to the actual psychological effect that parental abandonment would have on a child, but it seems like Britannia at large was doing more than enough to overshadow Kallen's father.

Quote:
Having worked with children a good portion of my life, I can tell you that Kallen would not have thought on issues of race or nationality at that age. The simple logic is if one side treated her well and the other side didn't, Kallen would focus on the former side and hate the other. If both sides hated her, then Kallen would have hated both sides and possibly all humans in general; that was the attitude I saw in many children with two base ethnicities here in the US (usually white-black or white-hispanic) when they regarded other people, because that's how everyone treated them. As for your last point, that only cements my earlier claim that Kallen's pro-Japanese stance came from her admiration for her brother, which in turn would have stemmed for his looking out for her. If she had a similar relationship to Ohgi that she had to Naoto, then it would have worked the same way for him as well. All in all, it's pretty much canon anyway that Kallen's main motivations to fight were for her family, whether be it for her brother's memory or changing the world so she and her mother could live in peace. I'm merely following along with that and adding my own twist to it.
I think I'm missing something. If Kallen doesn't see the world in terms of race and the like at that age, then why would she fixate on her father being Britannian? As well would she be able to hold such strong hate for a man she probably barely remembered, if at all, when she was faced with daily abuse from the Japanese?

I'm not disagreeing that it was Naoto and her mother that heavily influenced Kallen's loyalty to Japan, but with the idea that it was her father who served as a focal point for her hatred of Britannia. We only hear him mentioned once and Kallen doesn't display any of the obvious contempt she held for her biological mother at the time, or the way Lelouch and Suzaku viewed their own fathers. She defends herself from her stepmothers accusations of promiscuity by implying that she herself is promiscuous. If she held such contempt for her father, then she could have made a follow up comment like saying the two of them really deserved each other. Similarly, she doesn't make any comments on the matter with Milly later. These obviously aren't guarantees by any stretch, but they at least create the possibility that Kallen was merely indifferent to her father. Kallen is stated to handle betrayals poorly so viewing her father as having betrayed her and the rest of her family would have likely warranted more overt displays of disrespect for him.
Betteroffer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-05-14, 02:31   Link #13
Wing Zero Alpha
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Quote:
I considered the same point with Tamaki, but I don't think Lelouch would make that kind of mistake. At the absolute least, Tamaki's loyalty should have been higher than Chiba and Asahina who seemed to be actively pushing Tohdoh to take some measure of action in regards to Zero's secrecy. If your speculation on Tamaki is accurate, then Diethard should have similarly low loyalty.

As well, for two of the infamous Holy Swords, Chiba and Asahina both possess equal charisma to Kallen, and the Holy Swords were infact made into unit commanders in the first season. I think that this is enough to say either the chart scores have "levels" to them and a soldier with Kallen's level of intelligence and charisma is fit to at least command an individual unit, or the chart is just plain screwy.
All I can say to this now is that is it was more likely your last reason. In the real world I can understand why Kallen's stats were so low, as to not make her overly perfect and make her overwhelm everyone else since she arguably should have scored high in all categories. In context however, her low intelligence number goes against her displayed cunning and her high grades at Ashford, while her low charisma rating goes against her status as a leader as you said.

Quote:
From what we see in the show, both sides were equally likely to start beating the other in the street if they were in a position to do so, but Britannia more liberally used its authority to kill non-Britannians, use them for slavery and entertainment, and force them from their homes into filthy conditions. I can't speak to the actual psychological effect that parental abandonment would have on a child, but it seems like Britannia at large was doing more than enough to overshadow Kallen's father.
Remember this is the same civilization that at one time required any and all civilian who held a gaijin as a guest in his/her home to commit seppuku. In the modern world obviously that attitude doesn't carry over, but the Japanese still have great traces of xenophobia leftover. In regards to Code Geass, my point is while the Britannians were the ones running the show and doing most of the killing, both sides would have hated Kallen for her status as a half-breed and made her life hell, which would work in conjunction with her father sending her and her mother and brother away earlier. All in all, the only thing that kept Kallen from turning into a "Yankee" (Japanese slang for hooligan) early on was her brother, which I think we can both agree on.

Quote:
I think I'm missing something. If Kallen doesn't see the world in terms of race and the like at that age, then why would she fixate on her father being Britannian? As well would she be able to hold such strong hate for a man she probably barely remembered, if at all, when she was faced with daily abuse from the Japanese?
At first her hatred would just center around her father, but then after the Brits start to do massive damage (when she's older) then the race comes in and the earlier hatred she had for her dad was transformed into hatred for all Britannians and their elitism. In other words, her hate for her father was just the starting point, as it eventually grew bigger and beyond him. And yes, she would have been able to hate her dad for leaving her, as that is a natural reaction for children who have been left behind by one or both parents, even if they cannot even remember what they looked like.

Quote:
I'm not disagreeing that it was Naoto and her mother that heavily influenced Kallen's loyalty to Japan, but with the idea that it was her father who served as a focal point for her hatred of Britannia. We only hear him mentioned once and Kallen doesn't display any of the obvious contempt she held for her biological mother at the time, or the way Lelouch and Suzaku viewed their own fathers. She defends herself from her stepmothers accusations of promiscuity by implying that she herself is promiscuous. If she held such contempt for her father, then she could have made a follow up comment like saying the two of them really deserved each other. Similarly, she doesn't make any comments on the matter with Milly later. These obviously aren't guarantees by any stretch, but they at least create the possibility that Kallen was merely indifferent to her father. Kallen is stated to handle betrayals poorly so viewing her father as having betrayed her and the rest of her family would have likely warranted more overt displays of disrespect for him.
I agree she was likely indifferent to her father at that point, due to her hatred becoming more generalized; as opposed to just hating her father she now hates the whole civilization he belongs to. The distance between them also helps alleviate the hate as it allows Kallen to engage in the "good fight" against Britannia without his taking notice, and thus keeps his daughter's old feelings from resurfacing. And in a more Machiavellian kind of light, Kallen knows that if she kills her father or even her stepmother she would be depriving herself of a home and associated resources, so if anything she's willing to put up with all of them just for that, while considering her brother's resistance group to be her "true" family to compensate. But I'm just filling in blanks left behind by the series with that explanation, even if it is based on my understanding of human psychology.
Wing Zero Alpha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-05-15, 01:02   Link #14
Wing Zero Alpha
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Just a brief heads up Betteroffer, but I went and revised Chapter 04 after all to include Kallen's new hairstyle among other things. I thought you would like to know that.
Wing Zero Alpha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-05-15, 04:53   Link #15
Arbitres
Disabled By Request
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
"A sword cannot be perfect if it's owner is not,
A bow cannot shoot an arrow if it does not bend,
The shield can shatter if care is negligence instead."

Superb, Alpha. I appreciate the tentative you put forth into Megiddo. I'll definitely re-read 04 sometime. Kudos on retconning, as I know how much of a pain it can be. (...Which is why I don't do it.)
Arbitres is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-05-15, 21:12   Link #16
Wing Zero Alpha
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Pictures of Lelouch and Kallen are up on the wiki. Once more credit goes to Bonzo for their creation.
Wing Zero Alpha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-05-15, 23:32   Link #17
Betteroffer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wing Zero Alpha View Post
Remember this is the same civilization that at one time required any and all civilian who held a gaijin as a guest in his/her home to commit seppuku. In the modern world obviously that attitude doesn't carry over, but the Japanese still have great traces of xenophobia leftover. In regards to Code Geass, my point is while the Britannians were the ones running the show and doing most of the killing, both sides would have hated Kallen for her status as a half-breed and made her life hell, which would work in conjunction with her father sending her and her mother and brother away earlier. All in all, the only thing that kept Kallen from turning into a "Yankee" (Japanese slang for hooligan) early on was her brother, which I think we can both agree on.
I actually hadn't heard about the seppuku thing. I have to ask though, how recent was the practice? As for Kallen becoming a delinquent, I can't say I'm completely sold on the idea. In the real world perhaps, but fictional characters tend to possess uncommon amounts of chivalry and seem to come off reasoably normal from upbringings that would realistically create sociopaths and nihilists. As such I think it would be a reasonable to safe bet to say that Kallen would still retain her strong sense of justice, even without Naoto's presence in her life, at worst probably ending up like Suzaku before he killed his father. Another direction she might go would be becoming a much more subdued character, akin to her Stadtfeld persona (even if she chafed under it as in the series). Assuming Naoto took up the task of being the man of the family, thus allowing Kallen to keep something of a stable childhood at home, then his absence could lead to Kallen being more aware of the stress her mother went through to support her, in turn causing her to do everything in her power to stay out of the way so as not to cause trouble and try to become as self reliant as possible, much like Lelouch did for Nunally.

Quote:
At first her hatred would just center around her father, but then after the Brits start to do massive damage (when she's older) then the race comes in and the earlier hatred she had for her dad was transformed into hatred for all Britannians and their elitism. In other words, her hate for her father was just the starting point, as it eventually grew bigger and beyond him. And yes, she would have been able to hate her dad for leaving her, as that is a natural reaction for children who have been left behind by one or both parents, even if they cannot even remember what they looked like.
Oh yeah, I know there would certainly be bitterness towards her father, even if it was just the idea of him, but I just can't see it as her father being a key reason when she is bombarded with hate, violence, and scorn, that at least equals, but likely surpasses what the Japanese have done to her on a presumably daily basis.

Quote:
I agree she was likely indifferent to her father at that point, due to her hatred becoming more generalized; as opposed to just hating her father she now hates the whole civilization he belongs to. The distance between them also helps alleviate the hate as it allows Kallen to engage in the "good fight" against Britannia without his taking notice, and thus keeps his daughter's old feelings from resurfacing. And in a more Machiavellian kind of light, Kallen knows that if she kills her father or even her stepmother she would be depriving herself of a home and associated resources, so if anything she's willing to put up with all of them just for that, while considering her brother's resistance group to be her "true" family to compensate. But I'm just filling in blanks left behind by the series with that explanation, even if it is based on my understanding of human psychology.
Perhaps, but as you said, it's all blanks. For all we know she had a reconciliation with her father soon after she came to live with him, and her hate for Britannia really was born out of a sense of justice for the oppressed, either innate, a result of her brother's guidance, or both.

It was only one scene, but I got the sense that she only stayed at Ashford (and by extension the Stadtfeld manor) because it was her brother's dream for her, just as she fought in the resistence because freeing Japan was his dream for the country, as it keeps with my interpretation that Kallen lost the ability to define herself on her own having sacrificed this part of herself much like Lelouch and Suzaku in her efforts to grow up quickly. I suppose this is that pesky agree to disagree territory again, but thanks for taking the time to answer me.

Quote:
Just a brief heads up Betteroffer, but I went and revised Chapter 04 after all to include Kallen's new hairstyle among other things. I thought you would like to know that.
Ah yes, thanks for doing that. I know it's small and annoying, but I think it helps the readers that they can be informed of changes as soon as possible to familiar characters.

Before I forget, I wanted to ask if you are set on the idea of keeping V.V. as Charles' brother. I ask because some discussions I had with Arbitres about his appearance in Lost Colors left me wondering if he may have originally been intended to be much older than he was in R2, and if so just who he might have been (there seems to be a theme of having the youngest looking immortal in a show end up being the oldest by absurd margins as in the Tenchi series and Mermaid Scar).

Last edited by Betteroffer; 2010-05-15 at 23:59.
Betteroffer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-05-15, 23:48   Link #18
Arbitres
Disabled By Request
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Quote:
I ask because some discussions I had with Arbitres about his appearance in Lost Colors left me wondering if he may have originally been intended to be much older than he was in R2, and if so just who he might have been (there seems to be a theme of having the youngest looking immortal in a show end up being the oldest by absurd margins as in the Tenchi series and Mermaid Scar).
Spoiler for Particular note on that.:


That is all, and I hope that helped Betteroffer, Alpha. I remain cynical, but it's more probable then most give it credit for, V.V. giving Rai his geass that is.

Last edited by Arbitres; 2010-05-16 at 05:08.
Arbitres is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-05-16, 00:47   Link #19
Wing Zero Alpha
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betteroffer View Post
I actually hadn't heard about the seppuku thing. I have to ask though, how recent was the practice? As for Kallen becoming a delinquent, I can't say I'm completely sold on the idea. In the real world perhaps, but fictional characters tend to possess uncommon amounts of chivalry and seem to come off reasoably normal from upbringings that would realistically create sociopaths and nihilists. As such I think it would be a reasonable to safe bet to say that Kallen would still retain her strong sense of justice, even without Naoto's presence in her life, at worst probably ending up like Suzaku before he killed his father. Another direction she might go would be becoming a much more subdued character, akin to her Stadtfeld persona (even if she chafed under it as in the series). Assuming Naoto took up the task of being the man of the family, thus allowing Kallen to keep something of a stable childhood at home, then his absence could lead to Kallen being more aware of the stress her mother went through to support her, in turn causing her to do everything in her power to stay out of the way so as not to cause trouble and try to become as self reliant as possible, much like Lelouch did for Nunally.
I don't know when the practice officially ended, but reportedly it lasted all the way to the Boshin War. And even after the Shogunate was replaced with Emperor Meiji's rulership, hosting foreigners was still frowned upon in Japanse society. As for the subject, I'm trying to look at Kallen's development from a realistic standpoint as opposed to going with "it's fiction". On that, I doubt Kallen would have developed a sense of justice with her inherent rebelliousness and spirit; if anything she would have believed the concept of "justice" was some naive manmade belief and adopted an attitude not unlike Charles' projected persona as Emperor (a la pimping Social Darwinism). As for your second point, that's more of a possibility since despite how the rest of society would look on her, she still had her mother. At the same time however, she would have definitely learned to grow up fighting just like any other kid living in a bad neighborhood.

Quote:
Oh yeah, I know there would certainly be bitterness towards her father, even if it was just the idea of him, but I just can't see it as her father being a key reason when she is bombarded with hate, violence, and scorn, that at least equals, but likely surpasses what the Japanese have done to her on a presumably daily basis.
Perhaps not an outweighing reason, but definitely a starting point for her growing bitterness.

Quote:
Perhaps, but as you said, it's all blanks. For all we know she had a reconciliation with her father soon after she came to live with him, and her hate for Britannia really was born out of a sense of justice for the oppressed, either innate, a result of her brother's guidance, or both.
It was only one scene, but I got the sense that she only stayed at Ashford (and by extension the Stadtfeld manor) because it was her brother's dream for her, just as she fought in the resistence because freeing Japan was his dream for the country, as it keeps with my interpretation that Kallen lost the ability to define herself on her own having sacrificed this part of herself much like Lelouch and Suzaku in her efforts to grow up quickly. I suppose this is that pesky agree to disagree territory again, but thanks for taking the time to answer me.[/quote]

Yeah, there's no point in arguing something that there's no direct answer to. And you're welcome.

Quote:
Before I forget, I wanted to ask if you are set on the idea of keeping V.V. as Charles' brother. I ask because some discussions I had with Arbitres about his appearance in Lost Colors left me wondering if he may have originally been intended to be much older than he was in R2, and if so just who he might have been (there seems to be a theme of having the youngest looking immortal in a show end up being the oldest by absurd margins as in the Tenchi series and Mermaid Scar).
I already had it in Chapter 02 where Charles was conversing with V.V. as his brother, so the answer is definitely yes. As for V.V. giving Rai his Geass, I agree with Arbitres, I think V.V. was made to be much older as well but got changed around at the last minute much like a lot of other things; perhaps he was another victim of the infamous "schedule change" that supposedly damned the second half from the beginning. But there's no point in debating that since, like the above, there's no direct answer.
Wing Zero Alpha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-05-17, 22:59   Link #20
Betteroffer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wing Zero Alpha View Post
I already had it in Chapter 02 where Charles was conversing with V.V. as his brother, so the answer is definitely yes. As for V.V. giving Rai his Geass, I agree with Arbitres, I think V.V. was made to be much older as well but got changed around at the last minute much like a lot of other things; perhaps he was another victim of the infamous "schedule change" that supposedly damned the second half from the beginning. But there's no point in debating that since, like the above, there's no direct answer.
Ah right, that one slipped my mind.

Interestingly enough though, the main theory I am considering, that V.V. was actually Eowyn the founder of Britannia, might still be able to incorporate the sibling relationship between him and Charles to a degree by either going with the idea that Charles is the reincarnation of a brother V.V. had in his "original" life, that V.V. believes this to be the case, or that for whatever reason, V.V. met and took a liking to a young Charles and they bonded to the point where they chose to view each other as siblings in a spiritual sense and address each other as such.
Betteroffer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:11.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.