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Old 2010-10-07, 19:56   Link #361
Dahak86
I was loco for puddy~
 
 
Join Date: May 2010
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wait a minute, you're telling me.. is there really someone who interpreted that scene like this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soviet View Post
"oh poor thing, she asks Haru to let her go to school!"
going to school? rofl..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soviet View Post
...sure as hell isn't the first thing that should come to your mind when you hear a lascivious "ikasete" + undressing + blushing. I mean really.
ah, yeah. I had no doubt about it. That's why, that scene was so full of win!
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Old 2010-10-07, 21:14   Link #362
Midonin
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"Trolling" is such a strong word. If fiction didn't play with our expectations, either with the narrator in the camera's eye or through some other means, would it be achieving its purpose? The best stories are the ones where you don't know what's going to happen.
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Old 2010-10-07, 22:19   Link #363
ZeKeR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midonin View Post
"Trolling" is such a strong word. If fiction didn't play with our expectations, either with the narrator in the camera's eye or through some other means, would it be achieving its purpose? The best stories are the ones where you don't know what's going to happen.
well i have to agree with this... the game was something else, and this is another matter. i believe that anime and VN dont follow the storyline TO THE LETTER. its like a new road paved alongside the original one, with the same material but with a different path to the tunnel
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Old 2010-10-07, 22:26   Link #364
Midonin
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I'm not talking about adaptation in this instance. (That's for another day.) I'm talking in the context of the final scene and how people are saying they may be "trolled". To which I repeat my point above.
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Old 2010-10-07, 23:36   Link #365
Kaoru Chujo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soviet View Post
The audience is supposed to think that Sora wants Haru to fuck her silly, that's all there is to it....
You are depending for that opinion on what I think may be a mistranslation in the sub. Because so many people seem to think this is what it means, I did a bit of checking in the last two 2channel threads, and the only two mentions there talk about going to school. One praises the script construction by pointing out that the final scene repeats this idea from the first scene, where she said she wouldn't want to go.

But we would need a couple of actual native speakers to tell us if your idea actually works with the Japanese. I'm not totally convinced it's even implied in the language, although I'm going on the basis that it is somewhat implied, but not the major meaning.

I guess I really don't think of this as trolling, but as eroticism.
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A couple of 2channel posts I agree with. One, saying that there is a true tears feel here. I think there is some of the feel, and the siblings alone and their relationship is also somewhat similar. I also agree with the post that says this is one of the most erotic animes of recent years. And with the several posts praising the way it is directed. Another post praises the show's decadent feeling, and I think this is something special here, too, for better and worse.
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characters/seiyuus: Sailor Moon Crystal | Akatsuki no Yona | Amagi Brilliant Park | Coffin-Princess Chaika | Cross Ange | Daitoshokan no Hitsujikai | Danna ga Nani ga Itteru | Denkigai no Honya-san | Donten ni Warau | Fate/Stay Night UBW | Le Fruit de la Grisaia | Gugure! Kokkuri-san | Inou Battle wa Nichijou-kei no Naka de | Madan no Ou to Vanadis | Orenchi no Furo Jijou | Seven Deadly Sins | Shigatsu wa Kimi no Uso | Shirobako | Sora no Method | Tribe Cool Crew | Trinity Seven | Ushinawareta Mirai o Motomete | Wixoss

Last edited by Kaoru Chujo; 2010-10-08 at 00:02.
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Old 2010-10-08, 00:45   Link #366
relentlessflame
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
You are depending for that opinion on what I think may be a mistranslation in the sub. Because so many people seem to think this is what it means, I did a bit of checking in the last two 2channel threads, and the only two mentions there talk about going to school. One praises the script construction by pointing out that the final scene repeats this idea from the first scene, where she said she wouldn't want to go.
You know, the more I think about it, the more sense this makes as really the only way to interpret the script. The comment about the parallelism is an extremely good observation that's easy to miss at first glance. If you put the episode on the whole in the context of that parallelism, the development becomes quite clear:

Sora and Haruka arrive in a new town. Haruka wants to make the best of things, but Sora has little interest in the outside world and remains focused only on Haruka. However, Sora comes to realize that Haruka is slipping away from her grasp as he becomes more involved with school and the people around him. No matter how much she fantasizes about getting close to him, he doesn't see her that way, and he reminds her that they need to make things work. So she finally realizes that she needs to inject herself into Haruka's world before he slips away from her entirely. Thus, by the end of the episode, she's resolved that she needs to go to school with Haruka now before it's too late. And given her "lack of social graces", it wouldn't be unlike her to expect Haruka to measure her right there and then so she doesn't waste another moment (though it surely could have waited 'till morning).

That isn't to say that the way it's presented isn't suggestive, but so were a lot of scenes in the anime. As you say, the anime's certainly very "erotic" in its presentation.

So yeah, of course we could be mistaken, but it just makes too much sense, I think. I'm sold on this theory.

Edit: As I watch the episode again, I notice more parallelism that I missed the first time. When he meets with Nao's parents, the mother is the one who makes the "can you make it with just the two of you?" comment (they even drew attention to it) that later comes back around in Haruka's comment to Sora about "doing our best since it's just the two of us".

I also noticed that, rather importantly, Nao was "hugging" Haruka on the bike in the same exact position that Sora had been shown earlier, and that was the exact thing that Sora saw. And when they first got the bike Haruka had said to Sora "this is your seat". All the more reason for her to realize that she doesn't have Haruka all to herself.

Haruka also tells Nao, when he drops her off at home after the accident, "tomorrow do you want to go together?" (referring to school), and this actually ties to Sora's line at the end of the episode "I want to go!" The same verb is used in both cases.

So yeah, this script... at first glance it seems chaotic, but it's actually extremely carefully constructed. Wow.
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Last edited by relentlessflame; 2010-10-08 at 01:18.
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Old 2010-10-08, 03:35   Link #367
Dahak86
I was loco for puddy~
 
 
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Wow, you guys... just made my day. It all makes sense now!
but still, I think (or I wish?) Sora also wants Haru to make her come so badly... hence that scene and the 'masturbatory act'. (or was fanservice the real reason?)
anyways, they killed two birds with one stone.
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Old 2010-10-08, 03:38   Link #368
KROMEangel
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Somehow, I still think this is just all for the faps.

I mean we got borderline porno for....was there a reason? Was there a reason we needed to see that? Really?

Still watching though, cause it looks to provide some good drama.
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Old 2010-10-08, 04:47   Link #369
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Ep 1
Could this be t-t-twincest?! *fans herself* You may already know that I'm not much a fan of harem anime (except Kanon and Clannad), so I'm still not sure if I'm gonna follow this...

Thanks for informing us that this airs on Pay-TV. I started to wonder if naked girls with shown nipples and masturbation scenes are the norm nowadays.

Love the character design, clothes, coloring, background and most of all the music. <3 The omake was total WTH. ^^
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Old 2010-10-08, 05:26   Link #370
Soviet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
You are depending for that opinion on what I think may be a mistranslation in the sub.
Uuh...no? I'm not depending on the sub and the sub sure as hell isn't a "mistranslation". Look, I'm perfectly fine with the idea that she wants Haru to let her go to school, that's what I think too. And if this masterfully crafted script points in that direction, well great! All I'm saying is that it's impossible to come to this conclusion if you take the scene at face-value. Well, I guess you could but you'd have to be one strange fella'.

And I don't think some random 2ch posts prove anything. For all we know they already analyzed the shit out of this scene in a bazillion previous threads. And it probably started with a dude saying "I don't think she means what we all think she means. Look at the script!"

Quote:
But we would need a couple of actual native speakers to tell us if your idea actually works with the Japanese. I'm not totally convinced it's even implied in the language, although I'm going on the basis that it is somewhat implied, but not the major meaning.
No we really don't need native speakers to tell us how to interpret the lascivious "ikasete...ikitai!" of an undressing woman. This is the first time I have made a suggestion like this but...maybe you should watch more japanese porn? Or play some eroge.
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Old 2010-10-08, 07:30   Link #371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
You are depending for that opinion on what I think may be a mistranslation in the sub. Because so many people seem to think this is what it means, I did a bit of checking in the last two 2channel threads, and the only two mentions there talk about going to school. One praises the script construction by pointing out that the final scene repeats this idea from the first scene, where she said she wouldn't want to go.

But we would need a couple of actual native speakers to tell us if your idea actually works with the Japanese. I'm not totally convinced it's even implied in the language, although I'm going on the basis that it is somewhat implied, but not the major meaning.

I guess I really don't think of this as trolling, but as eroticism.
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A couple of 2channel posts I agree with. One, saying that there is a true tears feel here. I think there is some of the feel, and the siblings alone and their relationship is also somewhat similar. I also agree with the post that says this is one of the most erotic animes of recent years. And with the several posts praising the way it is directed. Another post praises the show's decadent feeling, and I think this is something special here, too, for better and worse.
I'm glad people share my interpretation of the last scene, I was starting to feel a little alone lol. I'm definitely not fluent in japanese but I'm sure the ambiguity is there (I've heard those exact same words so much in hentai/AV). As Soviet said, we are supposed to think Sora asks Haru to have sex with her first. It's only after the shock value of the scene dissipates that we can notice its true meaning.

I was the first one (at least I think so, and it was after a previous post of yours actually) to bring up the fact Sora was mostly likely refering to going to school in this thread but I'd be lying if I said it was the first thing that came to my mind

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilith View Post
Thanks for informing us that this airs on Pay-TV. I started to wonder if naked girls with shown nipples and masturbation scenes are the norm nowadays.
Speaking of which, there is comparion between the AT-X version and the Tokyo MX version here (NSFW) if anyone's interested.
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Old 2010-10-08, 08:50   Link #372
SonOfHeaven
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This anime surprised me. Didn't expect it to be what it turned out to be. Still hooked me in rather quick. Haru is a chick magnet no doubt. Sora in the last scene was quite sexy to say the least.

Motoka's scene in the omake caught me by surprise as well.
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Old 2010-10-08, 13:10   Link #373
Kaoru Chujo
Kuno Misaki
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soviet View Post
...No we really don't need native speakers to tell us how to interpret the lascivious "ikasete...ikitai!" of an undressing woman. This is the first time I have made a suggestion like this but...maybe you should watch more japanese porn? Or play some eroge.
Lol. Maybe I should. The only form of the verb I've heard with this meaning is "iku!" Have you heard others?

If you do speak Japanese, I apologize for imagining you didn't and were depending on the sub.
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Hashihime blog | Twitter @nakanokimi | autumn 2014 previews | autumn 2014 schedule |
characters/seiyuus: Sailor Moon Crystal | Akatsuki no Yona | Amagi Brilliant Park | Coffin-Princess Chaika | Cross Ange | Daitoshokan no Hitsujikai | Danna ga Nani ga Itteru | Denkigai no Honya-san | Donten ni Warau | Fate/Stay Night UBW | Le Fruit de la Grisaia | Gugure! Kokkuri-san | Inou Battle wa Nichijou-kei no Naka de | Madan no Ou to Vanadis | Orenchi no Furo Jijou | Seven Deadly Sins | Shigatsu wa Kimi no Uso | Shirobako | Sora no Method | Tribe Cool Crew | Trinity Seven | Ushinawareta Mirai o Motomete | Wixoss
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Old 2010-10-08, 14:47   Link #374
Soviet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
Lol. Maybe I should. The only form of the verb I've heard with this meaning is "iku!" Have you heard others?
"Ikaseru" is just the the causative form of "iku", and "ikasete" (make/let me come!) is something you hear quite often in eroge, yes.

Typing this feels really weird.
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Old 2010-10-08, 14:51   Link #375
Kaoru Chujo
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@Soviet -- Thanks. That info makes a difference. (I did know the grammar, just hadn't heard it in this context.)
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Hashihime blog | Twitter @nakanokimi | autumn 2014 previews | autumn 2014 schedule |
characters/seiyuus: Sailor Moon Crystal | Akatsuki no Yona | Amagi Brilliant Park | Coffin-Princess Chaika | Cross Ange | Daitoshokan no Hitsujikai | Danna ga Nani ga Itteru | Denkigai no Honya-san | Donten ni Warau | Fate/Stay Night UBW | Le Fruit de la Grisaia | Gugure! Kokkuri-san | Inou Battle wa Nichijou-kei no Naka de | Madan no Ou to Vanadis | Orenchi no Furo Jijou | Seven Deadly Sins | Shigatsu wa Kimi no Uso | Shirobako | Sora no Method | Tribe Cool Crew | Trinity Seven | Ushinawareta Mirai o Motomete | Wixoss
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Old 2010-10-08, 15:11   Link #376
Malkuth
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@Soviet+Kaoru:

for iku (=go or come. etc., depending on the context) and its grammatical/syntactical forms used, I think the subbers translated them properly ... i.e. keeping the ambiguity

On my trolling post, OK, I get why you might perceive it in a negative context, but that was not my original intent I do not apply terms on popular belief on their use, but rather I follow a pusrist and unbiased use, based on their actual cause-effect relationship, rather than popular correlations

On parallelism (I think @RelentlessFlame), apart from the iku trolling, I do not think it applies to the rest of the examples you gave. I would rather say that it is consistency, and referenceing ... but this are scemantics ...

Judging from the effort put in the first episode's scirpt-writting and story-boarding (as in the examples you mentioned), this show sets itself apart from the usual service that unfortunately most people get stuck into The creators seem to be willing (and able) to tell a mature tale (even if diverging from the source), but I wonder if the audience is into it.

Anyway there are 11 (or 15) more episodes to crush my hopes (and raised expectations)
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Old 2010-10-08, 17:08   Link #377
achirist
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I finally got around to watching this... Though the initial story is most definitely not original, I did like the artwork and the emotional ambiance surrounding the siblings. I did not like the teenage girls walking around who didn't learn what a bra was when they got their breast implants. I guess it was supposed to be funny that the girl was an indentured servant, but who instructed her to wear a maids outfit so specially primed to show off her sagging silicone is quite beyond me. I also found it really ridiculous that one of the girls was later naked in the bathtub, and, as the cliche is, had some buried romantic dreams about her childhood friend; as if she wouldn't just have dated someone else nearbye by that point. I hope those obnoxious, stupid girls are de-emphasized.

The final scene, where takes off her clothes and says she wants to 'cum,' also relates back to the kissing scene, so I don't think it's such a big misinterpretation on that note.
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Old 2010-10-08, 17:38   Link #378
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Wow. Finally stumbled onto this little series and I have to say it was all pretty unexpected. I went into this thinking it was going to be a standard Bishoujo anime like Kimikiss or To Heart and I'm pleasantly surprised that this wasn't the case.

The presentation of the first episode was good, the characters so far are likable and while the undertone storyline seems sober and heavy, the extra, comedic scenes at the end does wonders for lightening the load. All of this helps motivate me into watching more. And yes, I'll openly admit that the nudie bits helped sway my decision quite a bit.
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Old 2010-10-09, 01:21   Link #379
Khu
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First impression after first episode:

WHHHHHHHHHHUUUUUUUUUUUUUT DAAAAAAA HEEEELLLLLL?

Seriously, wth. I'm pretty sure the last sentence MUST have been a t/l error: (...Make me come. YEAH RIGHT) although there's some weird stuff going on @_@ I dunno, this might be just a little too out there for me.

Also, really, twincest? |:

...I'd like a few more male chars as well. And some comedy, and some music too. Somehow it felt kinda empty, and not like it was intentional, more like it just seemed to draaaaaaaaaaaaaag along. Probably some music and some jokes woulda helped in that respect.

Also:
EVERYONE KNOWS HARU
AND EVERYONE LIKES HIM
WUT WUT WUT ;_;
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Old 2010-10-09, 01:32   Link #380
Shinji103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khu View Post
First impression after first episode:

WHHHHHHHHHHUUUUUUUUUUUUUT DAAAAAAA HEEEELLLLLL?

Seriously, wth. I'm pretty sure the last sentence MUST have been a t/l error: (...Make me come. YEAH RIGHT) although there's some weird stuff going on @_@ I dunno, this might be just a little too out there for me.
Actually, well, it very well may not be a translation error. A lot of Japanese words have a different meaning based on the usage.....and that may very well be the accurate translation. That can in fact translate to "Make me come" with the correct usage. (the usage in this case obviously being.....you know) I "WTF"-ed at that scene just as hard.

The translation for these multiple-meaning words is contextual, but given that particular context, I think it's accurate....
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