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Old 2011-04-28, 00:45   Link #601
brocko
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Iroha got it's own forum already.

I tend to dislike the sub-forums a little anyway. It's nice and cosy in the one thread and it's easier to keep on top of discussion since everything isn't so scattered everywhere
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Old 2011-04-28, 08:34   Link #602
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This is probably what they're using to compensate for Lucky Star season 2

Also I'm angry they're making this instead of Haruhi season 3
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Old 2011-04-28, 10:36   Link #603
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It's interesting to see how this series has generated such polarizing reactions. I read a bit of the manga before this aired, and its brand of humour is, as many have pointed out, absurd and surreal, so perhaps that's not for everyone. The OVA didn't do much for me, I admit, but with each episode, Nichijou has grown on me, and well, put me in the boat of those who enjoy this.

And I've just got to say this: how catchy is that OP?? Hyadain is genius.
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Old 2011-04-28, 11:41   Link #604
risingstar3110
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Originally Posted by yura` View Post
It's interesting to see how this series has generated such polarizing reactions. I read a bit of the manga before this aired, and its brand of humour is, as many have pointed out, absurd and surreal, so perhaps that's not for everyone. The OVA didn't do much for me, I admit, but with each episode, Nichijou has grown on me, and well, put me in the boat of those who enjoy this.

And I've just got to say this: how catchy is that OP?? Hyadain is genius.
Yeah the OP is catchy as heck. Not only for the song, but for the animation as well
It didn't really stick when I hear it at first, but now it totally do


And forgot to mention, but Misato's machine gun set is probably the new harisen (the slapping fan) for her character stereotype
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Old 2011-04-28, 12:37   Link #605
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After watching four episodes of Nichijou, I have to admit that I was at least somewhat wrong about it.

It's not anywhere near as otaku-centric as I had first thought. By that, I mean, its humor is very much not primarily shout-outs to otaku interests (anime, manga, eroges, cosplaying, etc...) or loaded with references to other animes. I admittedly read too much into some male characters looking like they came straight out of Cromartie High School.

The difference between Nichijou and animes like Lucky Star and Ore no Imouto is pretty stark in this regard.

Nichijou's style of humor is indeed based on the absurd, on the surreal, and on exotically extreme exaggeration. At the same time, there's actually subtle philosophy sprinkled about the comedy, something the viewer can sink his or her teeth into should the desire be there to do so, but can also easily ignore if not interested in it.

So Nichijou is perhaps a smarter anime than what I first thought.


I also see glimmers of real potential amongst the cast. Yuko is a genki girl that actually suffers from being very genki and not getting her school work done. Mai is almost a Mary Sue, but it works in this anime because of how that lets her and Yuko play off of each other well. Mio is a happy medium between the two.

This trio does have decent chemistry between them, and I tend to find their scenes reasonably fun and/or interesting to watch.

At the same time, Kojiro is a very amusing and entertaining character, and also unusual even by anime's standards. He's hence probably the highlight of the show for me.


All of the above being said, Nichijou is very hit-and-miss with me, and I think I can see why it's not selling as well as KyoAni works usually do. With this in mind...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
I just want to add to this conversation that if the otaku in Japan do consider Nichijou a huge disappointment that it could be potentially devastating to Kyoto Animation. It's not like they have much else to turn to if their core fanbase starts to lose interest, though I suppose they could try and drum up an emergency Haruhi season or something to tide them over to the K-On movie. Barring that a potential retooling of the Nichijou concept into something more like K-On midway through the season might help.
I strongly agree with the part in bold (and I largely agree with the rest).

Nichijou's humor is very hit-and-miss with me, but in a more standard sequential plot structure, I could see the core of Nichijou's school-base cast appealing to otakus more or less the same way that K-On did.

I can't help but think that Nichijou would work best as a lighthearted slice of lice comedy, with sentimental splashes designed to emotionally appeal to viewers, just as K-On!! very effectively was.

The problem is that Nichijou's "plot structure" (or rather almost complete lack of one) can make it difficult for the viewer to grab unto anything, and to come to really care about the characters. In other words, it's hard to achieve emotional investment here.

With a sketch-based comedy, the comedy needs to be very good, imo. This is because you're going to get next to nothing from what passes for "the plot" or from character development. So it's laugh or bust, basically. Nichijou does make me chuckle at times - good enough for a slice of life comedy in the K-On vein - but for a sketch comedy where laughter is almost all you're getting out of it, it's just not funny enough, imo.

But I could easily see myself coming to care about this character cast if there was some sort of actual plot to grab unto (even just a K-On level plot), and watch characters and relationships develop through out.

But here, you're constantly jumping all over the place, with various different groupings of characters, all very loosely connected to each other. It's actually kind of like taking three or four of the newspaper comics, and just animating them in the exact order of how they appeared in the papers (so first you have a bit of Calvin and Hobbes, then you have a bit of Peanuts, then you have a bit of Dilbert, and now you're back to the next day of Calvin and Hobbes, etc... etc...).

So I will say that I do enjoy this about as much as I do reading a few comics in the newspaper. Which is to say I enjoy it a bit. But what I really enjoyed was reading Calvin and Hobbes anthology books. Because there you get some sense of plot starting to emerge, which makes it easier for me to really start to care about the characters. So humor alone is no longer my only reason for continuing to read along.

Likewise, I kind of wish this anime would just keep an almost constant focus on the main female trio, and build a real story from there. But then, this is Kyoto Animation, who values faithfulness to the source material above all else...


Quote:

Staying the course though.....phew...dunno about that. Unless there's some character that has yet to be introduced or something that is guaranteed to appeal to their core otaku fanbase they could be in for a rough ride.
Agreed. But then, I don't know if KyoAni has much of a choice. Again, it goes completely against their nature to do anime original material with adaptation work.

Asking KyoAni to be less than 100% faithful in adapting source material is kind of like asking JC Staff to be 100% faithful in adapting source material. In other words, it's just not in them to do it.


All of the above being said, Nichijou has surprised me a bit (in a good way), so I intend to watch more of it going forward.
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Old 2011-04-28, 13:46   Link #606
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Someone said the material changes as the manga volumes continued in Nichijou. I can't confirm this because I've only been able to fine one translated volume and a piece of the second volume. The sixth volume just came out and this manga stated late in 2006....so the author has had time to adjust things as it went for six volumes worth of material. Of which I suspect KyoAni will animate five volumes worth by October.
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Old 2011-04-28, 22:05   Link #607
risingstar3110
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I also see glimmers of real potential amongst the cast. Yuko is a genki girl that actually suffers from being very genki and not getting her school work done. Mai is almost a Mary Sue, but it works in this anime because of how that lets her and Yuko play off of each other well. Mio is a happy medium between the two.

This trio does have decent chemistry between them, and I tend to find their scenes reasonably fun and/or interesting to watch.
I may missed it, but it seems the trio actually revolve only around Yukko, as Mio and Mai rarely talk with each other. And it makes sense since these two hardly had any chemistry together and the trio actually also rarely stay in as a group
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Old 2011-04-29, 00:13   Link #608
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what really makes me like Nichijou as good as it is the mixture of exagerrated responses and downright wierd (if not funny) humor. it just works for me that well.

Now I'm pretty late, but oh well...:P

Review for Nichijou OP Single - Hyadain no Kakaka kataomoi-C:
1. Hyadain no Kakaka kataomoi-C and Hyadaruko no Kakaka Kataomoi-F
Word: Hyadain's a genius. and freaking gay. :P
While I didn't expect how the full song turned out (Dat girl cover rap bridge part is amazing - even I can't do it.) The B-Side of the single (tell me if the title is wrong) is literally a B-Side. lol it further convinced me that Hyadain's a freaking gay genius. And that's a full-pledged compliment. I can't wait what he'll do next for his single.

2. Choose Me feat. Sasaki Sayaka
Time for a quiz: can you tell who's Hyadaruko and who's Sasaki. Honestly it's so hard to tell the two apart on first and second try. Anyway, for a C-Side song, it's so catchy. It's so surprising how large this man's vocal range is. O.O Are you like...the Japanese's Adam Lambert or something? ;D
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Old 2011-04-29, 04:41   Link #609
SuperKnuckles
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
All of the above being said, Nichijou is very hit-and-miss with me, and I think I can see why it's not selling as well as KyoAni works usually do. With this in mind...
This gets me riled up whenever I see it. Since when did the sales dictate how great a show is? KyoAni has enough clout in the business to bust out any other hits they want to. Studio Bones and Madhouse has its fair share of commercial misses even if they aim for heavily artistic and unique material while they do so. Also, I get depressed as hell whenever people call Wandering Son a 'failure' because of the sales alone. It's unfortunate if sales are low, sure, but how does that weigh on something creatively?

Quote:
Nichijou's humor is very hit-and-miss with me, but in a more standard sequential plot structure, I could see the core of Nichijou's school-base cast appealing to otakus more or less the same way that K-On did.

I can't help but think that Nichijou would work best as a lighthearted slice of lice comedy, with sentimental splashes designed to emotionally appeal to viewers, just as K-On!! very effectively was.

The problem is that Nichijou's "plot structure" (or rather almost complete lack of one) can make it difficult for the viewer to grab unto anything, and to come to really care about the characters. In other words, it's hard to achieve emotional investment here.

With a sketch-based comedy, the comedy needs to be very good, imo. This is because you're going to get next to nothing from what passes for "the plot" or from character development. So it's laugh or bust, basically. Nichijou does make me chuckle at times - good enough for a slice of life comedy in the K-On vein - but for a sketch comedy where laughter is almost all you're getting out of it, it's just not funny enough, imo.
I don't mean offense here, but did you watch enough surrealistic comedy and other mellower slice of life humor/sketch shows out there? They're more like what Nichijou is going for, not something that tugs at the heartstrings with sentimentality like K-On. Even Azumanga had some moments of sentimentality, but it often dipped into the absurd/surreal humor quite a bit.

Nichijou at its core is most like Cromartie High with the surrealism while still holding onto some cuteness in portrayal. As for how the show succeeds doing this, it's simple. It's a light sketch comedy and its randomness is its strength, not its weakness. It's somewhat like how Sketchbook Full Colors was. The point of these shows is a mellow portrayal of comedy with occasional spikes in physical comedy and other types of comedic devices. Not something balls-to-wall comedy style like Maria Holic or something.
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Old 2011-04-29, 11:34   Link #610
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Also, I get depressed as hell whenever people call Wandering Son a 'failure' because of the sales alone. It's unfortunate if sales are low, sure, but how does that weigh on something creatively?
But Hourou Musuko TOTALLY failed to appeal fans of its original manga... :/
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Old 2011-04-29, 18:42   Link #611
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I can't help but think that Nichijou would work best as a lighthearted slice of lice comedy, with sentimental splashes designed to emotionally appeal to viewers, just as K-On!! very effectively was.
Since my opinion was that K-On!! was somewhat more focused in regards to its plot than Lucky Star [which also was a slice-of-life comedy with sentimental splashes], are you thinking more towards K-On!! or Lucky Star? I'd see this as a better fit towards Lucky Star than K-On!! right now, and it seems you think similarly, even if you reference K-On!!
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Old 2011-04-29, 18:59   Link #612
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Fell out of the Top 100, if episode 5 doesn't push it up a lot this is going to be an FMP type "bomba" in sales for KyoAni. I really don't see this having a killer episode to drive up preorders either...not that type of show to be able to do that (as opposed to say Steins;gate), guess it needs a character to come in to boost the ranking... whether it has that type of character... I have no idea...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles View Post
This gets me riled up whenever I see it. Since when did the sales dictate how great a show is? KyoAni has enough clout in the business to bust out any other hits they want to. Studio Bones and Madhouse has its fair share of commercial misses even if they aim for heavily artistic and unique material while they do so. Also, I get depressed as hell whenever people call Wandering Son a 'failure' because of the sales alone. It's unfortunate if sales are low, sure, but how does that weigh on something creatively?
You're taking offense to an insult that isn't there. Triple_R mentions it was hit and miss with him, he also says he can see why its not going to sell as well as typical KyoAni shows do. He's not saying "lol this show is crap and because of that it won't sell well lolol".

You're being overly defensive for the second time in this thread when someone has mentioned the possible low sales, when both I and Triple_R mentioned low sales none of us were saying the show is crap but your (over)reactions to both posts are making it out like we were. Even if one or both of us think it is crap it's beside the point since we didn't even say that in the posts you took issue with.

Last edited by Westlo; 2011-04-29 at 20:20.
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Old 2011-04-30, 01:15   Link #613
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But Hourou Musuko TOTALLY failed to appeal fans of its original manga... :/
Yeah. That is another thing that depresses me as well. I'm actually thankful the show was made at all. Of course, if I had a billion dollars to spare and pump millions into the project, I would have made it 2 cours, show the past and future beyond the 12 episode's story arcs and give it a proper adaptation it deserves. Not sure how it's feasible in real life, especially after it being touted as a commercial failure by the producer. I'm fairly angry at the producer for being a chicken-heart about the issue.

Thankfully for Nichijou, apparently KyoAni is strong enough to bust out multiple cours of this show.
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Old 2011-04-30, 01:19   Link #614
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I was really lukewarm on this series after the OVA and first episode, but it has grown on me. Episode 4 was the first where I really enjoyed all the segments. I love the way Mai pranks Yukko, and the segments with the professor and Nano are adorable (even if the professor's voice is kind of grating sometimes).
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Old 2011-04-30, 01:20   Link #615
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You're being overly defensive for the second time in this thread when someone has mentioned the possible low sales, when both I and Triple_R mentioned low sales none of us were saying the show is crap but your (over)reactions to both posts are making it out like we were. Even if one or both of us think it is crap it's beside the point since we didn't even say that in the posts you took issue with.
I think I'm being fairly reasonable here. Some people group this show unfairly to other types of comedies and make direct analogies when such analogies don't work since the types of comedy isn't the same (okay, so it looks like Azumanga. The similarities ends there really) and I don't really get the not-so-hidden inferring that this show should have been canned as an idea beyond any other show purely for financial reasons alone. I can kind of see the point in a way, but sorry, I think that's just borderline snarky. Not to say any other show doesn't deserve the treatment either.

I'll just smirk if I keep seeing the same snarkiness a year down the road or something. But I know it'll happen.

Just to clarify, I think it's perfectly legit if people don't like this show for the comedy style. Surrealistic comedy, slice of life, these kinds of things won't click with everyone and that's fine. What I'm having a major issue with is how it supposedly is some sign of 'impending downfall of KyoAni' or how it would have been SO MUCH BETTER if it was Full Metal Panic or whatever shows that is preferred. Preferences are fine. But don't spin this into some objective, scientific thinking you have to use Nichiijou as some footstool to make a point.
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Old 2011-04-30, 01:38   Link #616
Ceral
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I am loving Nichijou. I feel like my long lost friend KyoAni just came back or something. After endless eight and K-On (Which I didn't like until the middle of S2), I think that KyoAni is finally making some A++ anime again. If sales are low, imo it is probably due to the OVA, that thing was dreadful. I put off watching Nichijou for a month because of that. I bet a lot of potential fans put off watching the show because of the OVA (It's very hard to earn a sub 6.50 rating on anidb.)

The best part of the show has to be the production values. The show feels downright cinematic with all of the fully orchestrated BGMs. And there's so much detail in all of the character expressions and movements! I always have to rewatch Mai's hip shake dance whenever I go through the OP . The quality of the show plus the quirkiness, is like a breath of fresh air.

I don't think it is similar to Lucky Star except that both shows don't aim to make you laugh out loud, they aim to make you chill out and enjoy yourself. Hakase and Nano have so far been a joy to watch. Akira has some talent! (I just realized Akira/Hakase's voice sounds exactly like Kud's.) I can't believe how inexperienced a lot of the VA's are, they all nailed their parts down perfectly. (Maybe that has something to do with the sales. There are a lot of shows this season with awesome VA talent that made many of those shows must watches for me.) I can't say I care much for the girl with all the firearms, those segments are boring like the OVA, doh. I for one will preorder some Nichijou merchandise!

Last edited by Ceral; 2011-04-30 at 01:49.
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Old 2011-04-30, 02:01   Link #617
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I agree the OVA could have been a bad teaser for non-fans, but for the fans it felt perfectly in the right place (like for example, nobody knew a thing about Sakamoto-san, but the fans knew about the angle). But then again, tons of anime seems to just baldly put an OVA out there regardless. I think all the excessive KyoAni hype kind of didn't turn favorably towards Nichijou's OVA compared to any other companies' OVAs coming out of the thin blue sky.
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Old 2011-04-30, 02:12   Link #618
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First of all, I want to say that Westlo is right in what he wrote there.

I'm not saying that Nichijou is crap. I felt that I had pointed out enough positives to the show (from my own perspective) to make that clear.

However, in fairness, maybe I didn't take enough care to draw clear dividing lines between my own personal opinions on the show, and the reasons why I don't think otakus are buying it in significant numbers.

There is some overlap there, but there is some difference there as well. For example, Nichijou's style of humor is probably slightly more appealing to me than otaku-centric humor is, but otaku-centric humor is more of a proven commercial winner (as evidenced by the commercial success of animes like Lucky Star and Ore no Imouto).

Without the humor speaking directly to them, I think the next thing otakus would look for in a comedy-driven KyoAni show is heartwarming sentimentality. And here is where I think the randomness of the show (in the sense of its lack of sequential plot structure) is a factor that's holding Nichijou back sales-wise, as that randomness can make it difficult for viewer emotional investment to take hold.

Here I'm a bit more personally biased as I don't like the lack of sequential plot structure either. That's my honest opinion and taste. I'm pretty confident I'd like this show a fair bit more if the focus wasn't so divided amongst a whole bunch of different character groupings, but rather if the focus was squarely on the main female trio, with the show spending 90% or so of the time following them in their day-to-day lives (be it Lucky Star style or K-On style). As it is, it seems to be more like 50%, if that.

So here I see overlap between my own personal taste, and what I think Japanese otakus tend to want in
comedy-driven KyoAni shows.

Admittedly, this is just what I think. I don't live in Japan, I'm not "on the ground" there to borrow a common political phrase, so I can only infer from the sales data I've seen for a wide swath of animes what seems to sell, and what seems not to sell, in the anime DVD/Blu-Ray marketplace.

Nichijou has a character cast that I could see selling the anime to otakus in Japan, but it's just not spending enough time on the most marketed and marketable part of that cast in order to do that, imo.


One final note: I recognize that quality alone will not sell anime (it can and will help, but not on its own). It's been my observation that anime has to have some sort of otaku-pleasing hook beyond simply being "good" in a general sense. On the other hand, a show with a killer hook to it can get away with questionable quality. So I certainly recognize that a good show can have poor sales, and vice versa.
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Old 2011-04-30, 02:20   Link #619
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That clears it up quite a bit Triple_R. Sorry to get all catty, but I kind of feel attacked on all sides in regarding discussions about this show elsewhere. It's either support or a yet another reason why KyoAni is 'dying' or we should get a yet another Haruhi show (as if it wouldn't. lol. Of course it'll get future seasons).

Also, I don't really know if it's sentimentality alone. But maybe what I might call 'soft moe' with cute, likable personalities that hooks viewers. In some ways, shows like Precure is ALL about that, which is why some men and hardcore otaku take to shows like that even if it isn't targeted towards them directly. And even if some parts of K-On might be too girly for some alpha males to understand, its cuteness and memorable, likable characters might. I don't know. There's a lot of little factors floating around as to the sales factor of Japanese consumers. Even though I lived in Japan during childhood, a lot of its modern sales angles are kind of mysterious for me too. By all accounts, something like K-On surprised me how well it sold. And also stuff like the first 5 or so years of Noitamina being insanely popular (and why people didn't take to Wandering Son, one of the best shows in the Noitamina lineup amongst a few other shows. Then again, the Earthquake/Tsunami didn't help.).
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Old 2011-04-30, 08:45   Link #620
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My simple opinion on Nichijou and Kyoani so far:

In Haruhi, we have Haruhi who carried the show.
In Lucky Star, there was Konami.
In K-On! S1, Mio carried the show, in S2, YuiAzu carried the show.

In Nichijou, who exactly is the focus? So far, there's no particular emphasis on a certain character and I felt that explains the reception towards the series thus far.

Nichijou, by itself, is not a turn-off so far. Maybe some people expect a little bit too much. I don't expect rocking, dancing OPs/EDs, the next rising seiyuu to steal the show and moe moe kyun all the time.
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