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Old 2010-06-21, 15:59   Link #781
MalakTawus
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The other thing to go by that they weren't soldiers is Isleys "I gave it a try for a short while then gave it up soon after" comment which implies he wasn't experienced when he became a warrior.
And you think that this can be a solid proof?
For all we know considering how long he lived even 10 years of training could be "a short while" for Isley,but it's highly probable that he was just being elusive with Raki......
Said that it's true that we don't know if the male warriors were ex-soldier,it was simply an hypothesis to justify the fact that a lot of male warriors seems to be quite old,and imo it's quite strange,don't you think?
(well,maybe they were simply normal adults........)
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Old 2010-06-21, 17:53   Link #782
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Originally Posted by MalakTawus View Post
And you think that this can be a solid proof?
For all we know considering how long he lived even 10 years of training could be "a short while" for Isley,but it's highly probable that he was just being elusive with Raki......
Said that it's true that we don't know if the male warriors were ex-soldier,it was simply an hypothesis to justify the fact that a lot of male warriors seems to be quite old,and imo it's quite strange,don't you think?
(well,maybe they were simply normal adults........)
while I won't deny its possible don't forget unlike the anime the manga has never said there is an age limit for becoming a hybrid (The anime claimed that when Clare joined she was close to being "to old")

It seems unlikely Isley + Co were taken in as adults but manga/anime in general often uses artwork that confuses the viewer about the age. For example in Toaru Majutsu no Index theres a guy (Magnus Stiyl the guy who can use fire magic) who looks like an adult but is actually a chain smoking
Spoiler for spoiler:
(it was a shock to alot of people when the manga revealed his true age).

so it could simply be artwork rather than any impression on their real age.
(spoilered it because some people may not know still)
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Old 2010-06-21, 21:30   Link #783
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Originally Posted by alovelyburn View Post
Dauf doesn't seem like great company.
No doubt this is why she wanted friends so badly.

Spoiler for Image I just colored (for practice) and posted on the image thread:

Last edited by Ryus; 2010-06-22 at 15:03.
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Old 2010-06-22, 14:52   Link #784
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No doubt this is why she wanted friends so badly.

Spoiler for Image I just colored (for practice) and posted on the image thread:
, exactly. How god-awful must it be to, instead of living in a warm nice cottage with 2 dozen males and a surrogate son and daughter, you're stuck in this big ol' empty castle totally alone with a manatee like Dauf?
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Old 2010-06-22, 14:52   Link #785
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Old 2010-06-22, 15:09   Link #786
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No doubt this is why she wanted friends so badly.
LMAO. Well. I would too, if I were her, it's true.

Image-wise, I'm heading over to the image thread.


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Originally Posted by Shiek927 View Post
, exactly. How god-awful must it be to, instead of living in a warm nice cottage with 2 dozen males and a surrogate son and daughter, you're stuck in this big ol' empty castle totally alone with a manatee like Dauf?
Eep! The whole surrogate daughter thing just freaks me out, since I've always thought she was his girlfriend/lover/whatever. I doubt he actually lived with the two dozen males, though. I pretty much figured the only one he was in frequent contact with was Rigaldo.
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Old 2010-06-22, 15:47   Link #787
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so it could simply be artwork rather than any impression on their real age.
I admit i didn't consider this possibility.
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Old 2010-06-22, 15:58   Link #788
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Eep! The whole surrogate daughter thing just freaks me out, since I've always thought she was his girlfriend/lover/whatever. I doubt he actually lived with the two dozen males, though. I pretty much figured the only one he was in frequent contact with was Rigaldo.
Umm, ewww? 0_o

Well, It's the thought; he obviously never really gave a spit over any of them, but nothing ever really stopped him from going with them or talking with them. Riful didn't really have that luxary since she was always actually looking for people .

It's a shame she hated Isley actually....because if she just joined him during his prime, all her problems would be solved and she wouldn't be lonely anymore. Isley...neither of them actually, are the type to share power however.

---

About the artwork, that's exactly what I was saying Kenshin; that despite looking like fully-grown adults, all of them are pretty close to 100 years old....

Unless you're going in the other direction and saying that despite physically looking that way, they are much younger which explains the age thing....in which case I just can't believe that. I can't believe that Isley and all the males are actually still teenagers or anyone under the age of 25. It's just....weird 0_0.
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Old 2010-06-22, 16:09   Link #789
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Umm, ewww? 0_o
Why in the world do you "look" surprised, the manga said she was. That's totally the only reason I think so.

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Well, It's the thought; he obviously never really gave a spit over any of them, but nothing ever really stopped him from going with them or talking with them. Riful didn't really have that luxary since she was always actually looking for people .
I guess my view on it is that she wasn't lonely, she was just looking for allies because she needed to take on Isley. The main reason I think this is that she didn't actually look for allies until she needed to take on Isley, and even then if they weren't useful in the fight she just had them killed off. She also didn't seem all that interested in friendship until she saw how Clare, Galatea and Jean worked together and how it let them defeat someone far stronger than them.

So to me, Riful's talk about friendship and alliances were just as self-serving as Isley's gathering up his old comrades in his war on... everyone. In the end, they were both just advancing their own interests and describing it in the terms of their particular mask of civility. But I think it really is a mask, for both of them.

And Isley didn't seem to like having people around much, or at least he said he didn't, so I assume he wasn't getting much of a benefit out of his generation hanging around aside from having them on hand when he wanted to take on... everyone.

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It's a shame she hated Isley actually....because if she just joined him during his prime, all her problems would be solved and she wouldn't be lonely anymore. Isley...neither of them actually, are the type to share power however.
I'm not even sure she did hate Isley. I tend to think the Abyssal Ones in general had no real issues with one another on a personal level. It was all "business" related problems, IMO.
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Old 2010-06-22, 16:20   Link #790
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Why in the world do you "look" surprised, the manga said she was. That's totally the only reason I think so.
When was that? Only Isley, Raki and Priscilla really knew about the relationship they had with eachother, unless you're referring to what Riful heard which was just a cover-story before the war, which she understood after the war. Even then, that Isley submitted toward Priscilla instead of the other way around, doesn't even come close to spelling out the relationship they had which we saw; for instance, it doesn't even bring up Raki.

Information warfare: Isley wanted everyone to know what he wanted them to know, and that was it.

--

Isley really only cared for those he could make use of. Really, once he had Priscilla, he had no use for an army anymore, which is why they suddenly became expendable.

I always felt that Riful truly was lonely; her words, her repeating desires...she wanted to take over sure, but she definitely was much more empathetic then Isley ever was. Her reactions to Dauf getting attacked by various forces the past several chapters are sheer proof of that.

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I'm not even sure she did hate Isley. I tend to think the Abyssal Ones in general had no real issues with one another on a personal level. It was all "business" related problems, IMO.
I agree, that's what I tried to get across: Riful said herself that neither she or Luciella had anything personal or against Isley, and neither did eachother probably for that matter(especially since she wanted to team up with Luciella). It was "just business", as you said.
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Old 2010-06-22, 16:41   Link #791
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Originally Posted by Shiek927 View Post
When was that? Only Isley, Raki and Priscilla really knew about the relationship they had, unless you're referring to what Riful heard which was just a cover-story before the war, which she understood after the war.
I agree that only they knew about the reality of their relationship. I'm just surprised that someone would be surprised that I saw them as a "pair" since the manga itself raised the idea, so it's not like it's being drawn out of thin air. That's all, really.

I do think it's ambiguous, although I'll note that I think the idea that he covered his relationship with a surrogate daughter by saying she was his lover is way squickier than the idea that she actually was his lover. And also that even after Riful understood that it was a cover story, her explanation of what happened was:

douyara ano otoko... ima dewa honki de ano onna horechatta mitai ne

"It seems like that man... honestly has fallen in love with that girl."


Quote:
I always felt that Riful truly was lonely; her words, her repeating desires...she wanted to take over sure, but she definitely was much more empathetic then Isley ever was. Her reactions to Dauf getting attacked by various forces the past several chapters are sheer proof of that.
I just don't agree with that! I mean, do I agree that Isley only cared for people he could make use of? Yes, at least until Priscilla and Raki, who clearly affected him enough to make him reduce his feeding... and enough that his last thought was of wishing he could have been with them longer. But I don't see any signs that Riful was any different. She loved Dauf, but then Isley loved Priscilla and Raki, so that really doesn't make her, to me, any more empathetic.

Last edited by alovelyburn; 2010-06-22 at 17:14. Reason: Mysterious moving "is".
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Old 2010-06-22, 16:58   Link #792
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I agree that only they knew about the reality of their relationship. I'm just surprised that someone would be surprised that I saw them as a "pair" since the manga itself raised the idea, so it's not like it's being drawn out of thin air. That's all, really.

I do think it's ambiguous, although I'll note that I think the idea that he covered his relationship with a surrogate daughter by saying she was his lover way squickier than the idea that she actually was his lover. And also that even after Riful understood that it was a cover story, her explanation of what happened was:

douyara ano otoko... ima dewa honki de ano onna horechatta mitai ne

"It seems like that man... honestly has fallen in love with that girl."
Heh, well, that is more of a personal thing; I hate the idea of them being a pair because he's basically taking already advantage of her, and that's just pushing it too far. It's bad enough he's physically and visually much older then her(his silver hair only serves to add to his aged look), but he obviously only cared about how far she could help his plans. Considering the mental state she was in, she'd do anything for him so long as he'd promise to help her find her family and what not.

So the idea of them being a pairing and sleeping together when she's already in the palm of his hand just seems so....so...

(I never knew you can understand Japanese. Cyclone can also read, which really helps when we need direct translations .

---

Quote:
I just don't agree with that! I mean, do I agree that Isley only cared for people he could make use of? Yes, at least until Priscilla and Raki, who clearly affected him enough to make him reduce his feeding... and enough that his last thought was of wishing he could have been with them longer. But I don't see any signs that Riful was any different. She loved Dauf, but then Isley loved Priscilla and Raki, so that really doesn't make her, to me, any more empathetic.
The biggest trick here, is that we never, for some unspeakable reason, seen any sort of flashback to the 7 years they shared together. Isley definitely changed, but to what degree and how he showed it is unknown. We've certainly so far never seen him shed tears the way Riful did for Dauf.

Hopefully we will get flashbacks so we can see more of the man he became indepth
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Old 2010-06-22, 17:04   Link #793
alovelyburn
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Heh, well, that is more of a personal thing; I hate the idea of them being a pair because he's basically taking already advantage of her, and that's just pushing it too far. It's bad enough he's physically and visually much older then her(his silver hair only serves to add to his aged look), but he obviously only cared about how far she could help his plans. Considering the mental state she was in, she'd do anything for him so long as he'd promise to help her find her family and what not.

So the idea of them being a pairing and sleeping together when she's already in the palm of his hand just seems so....so...
Ahh, I can understand that. I don't personally mind it, because... I don't know, I like messed up relationships in fiction anyway and it's difficult to bother me. But the other thing is, while I think he started out by taking advantage of her, I think by the end she (and later Raki) had affected him so profoundly that he seems to have given up all his ambitions and just sort of sat around being with them, so I tend to think of it more as a transformative/redemptive relationship that begins from a bad place rather than something that begins and ends badly.

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(I never knew you can understand Japanese. Cyclone can also read, which really helps when we need direct translations .
Yeeeah, I can read it, too, I'm just too lazy to switch to japanese mode. But the thing is, it's quirky - I'm at that level where I can translate something if I have a dictionary handy but wouldn't trust myself to translate a whole manga without my brain burning out first. But what I DO have is a maternal family that is Japanese/grew up in Japan/speaks Japanese as a first language. So I can always doublecheck with an "expert" or whatever.

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The biggest trick here, is that we never, for some unspeakable reason, seen any sort of flashback to the 7 years they shared together. Isley definitely changed, but to what degree and how he showed it is unknown. We've certainly so far never seen him shed tears the way Riful did for Dauf.
I think that might just be a personality thing. Plus, it's not like Priscilla was being tortured to death in front of him. ...who could even do that, anyway?

Last edited by alovelyburn; 2010-06-22 at 17:25. Reason: blah blah about kanji
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Old 2010-06-22, 17:16   Link #794
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Ahh, I can understand that. I don't personally mind it, because... I don't know, I like messed up relationships in fiction anyway and it's difficult to bother me. But the other thing is, while I think he started out by taking advantage of her, I think by the end she (and later Raki) had affected him so profoundly that he seems to have given up all his ambitions and just sort of sat around being with them, so I tend to think of it more as a transformative/redemptive relationship that begins from a bad place rather than something that begins and ends badly.
All the more reason why getting a flashback will give us a look into the changes he went through. He definitely died with regrets, and overall gave me the impression that he wished he had more time to right his wrongs. His death was easily one of the most tragic

---

Roflmao, yes, that is very random personal info

---

Well, we'll just have to wait and see until we got something. Raki's in a caravan right now heading to Staff....these are actually good times for some flashbacks ^_^.
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Old 2010-06-22, 17:24   Link #795
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All the more reason why getting a flashback will give us a look into the changes he went through. He definitely died with regrets, and overall gave me the impression that he wished he had more time to right his wrongs. His death was easily one of the most tragic
I'm not sure if we ever will really get a full on flashback, although I wouldn't mind one. Also, randomly, Isley only looks around 20 to me. So the physical age difference never really bugged me - I get a little more wigged out by Dauf and Riful since she seems to be prepubescent or JUST post-pubescent, whereas Priscilla always struck me as 15-17ish.

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Roflmao, yes, that is very random personal info
LMAO. IT STARTED OUT WITH A POINT, HONESTLY - which was something about how I try to doublecheck my translations with someone who knows the language better than I do. And then I just... kept... rambling... anyway I deleted the irrelevant part.
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Old 2010-06-22, 17:36   Link #796
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I'm not sure if we ever will really get a full on flashback, although I wouldn't mind one. Also, randomly, Isley only looks around 20 to me. So the physical age difference never really bugged me - I get a little more wigged out by Dauf and Riful since she seems to be prepubescent or JUST post-pubescent, whereas Priscilla always struck me as 15-17ish.
Hah, no way; all the males are 25 or older, least that's how I see it.....except Raki of course .

Both he and Priscilla I always saw as 13-14, filling in the middle-school gap between Riful and her late elementary age, and Claire(volume 1 anyway) and her young highschool appearance. Raki is obviously in his early 20's now which fits him nicely(physically anyway) with Claire. As for Priscilla, with her rather incomplete transformation, I can understand if she physically looks older(fitting in the 15-17 look); I don't buy into it too much though because it goes too much against all the other information on that subject.

I do believe though that, depending on the persona in control, she seemingly looks older or younger. Noticably when the Awakened is in control like now, she(especially facially) looks like someone in her 20's, instead of the young teenager she's looked like until now.
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Old 2010-06-22, 18:20   Link #797
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Hah, no way; all the males are 25 or older, least that's how I see it.....except Raki of course .
Huh! None of the males looked, by and large, any older than the females to me. Sometimes they look odder - actually they remind me of the Organiztion guys. But I wouldn't say they look especially old.

Isley and Rigaldo look especially young to me. Early 20s at the latest, late teens at the earliest, but probably around 20.

Quote:
Both he and Priscilla I always saw as 13-14, filling in the middle-school gap between Riful and her late elementary age, and Claire(volume 1 anyway) and her young highschool appearance. Raki is obviously in his early 20's now which fits him nicely(physically anyway) with Claire. As for Priscilla, with her rather incomplete transformation, I can understand if she physically looks older(fitting in the 15-17 look); I don't buy into it too much though because it goes too much against all the other information on that subject.
Eh? What other information? Priscilla really does look way older than 13/14 to me. RIFUL looks 12-13, IMO. Priscilla I wouldn't place younger than 15, and I tend to think 16ish. I do think she looks older in her awakened state, which I think is partially Yagi's evolving art style (his faces are getting less round - check out Teresa's face in the original arc vs. in the Extra Scene. Much thinner/longer) but it's also her facial expression.

That said, I don't think she ever looked younger than 15, except when she was... well, shrunken.

Last edited by alovelyburn; 2010-06-22 at 18:27. Reason: 12-1 is a weird age. >.>
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Old 2010-06-22, 19:18   Link #798
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Well as far as I can see it. Priscilla looks around 15-16 2 me. Riful 13-14... maybe, agreed with shiek all the males look like they're well into their 20s. Raki on the other hand, looks like he is somewhere around 17-20.

Edit: Something I've always wondered, Why did Riful always choose a castle as her hiding place? Look at Isley he lived in frekin nice a** cottage. That sounds much better than a damp dirty old castle.

Last edited by FormerAbyssalone; 2010-06-22 at 20:14.
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Old 2010-06-22, 21:00   Link #799
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Huh! None of the males looked, by and large, any older than the females to me. Sometimes they look odder - actually they remind me of the Organiztion guys. But I wouldn't say they look especially old.

Isley and Rigaldo look especially young to me. Early 20s at the latest, late teens at the earliest, but probably around 20.
The thing about the transformation, is that I always thought, as a Claymore, you would continue growing until you reached your prime of life, and then stop aging for obvious reasons - unless you course you awakened and then you're visually stuck at where you were.

Since Isley and all the males clearly got alot of experience as warriors, which is why their are so (seemingly) unusually powerful as Awakened Beings, especially Isley, is because all of them made it that far. To me, they all look like Miria's age, and she's definitely a woman who's pushing her 30's.

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Eh? What other information? Priscilla really does look way older than 13/14 to me. RIFUL looks 12-13, IMO. Priscilla I wouldn't place younger than 15, and I tend to think 16ish. I do think she looks older in her awakened state, which I think is partially Yagi's evolving art style (his faces are getting less round - check out Teresa's face in the original arc vs. in the Extra Scene. Much thinner/longer) but it's also her facial expression.

That said, I don't think she ever looked younger than 15, except when she was... well, shrunken.
By information, I was just referring to everything we know on the subject to save time. We know Awakened Beings don't physically age once they've awakened for example, which is why, despite how old she looks like, can't actually physically be any older because then it would be inconsistant.

Priscilla, like I said(I think I may have worded my post wrong), looked like child Raki's age when she was a warrior - 13/14. Because she's an exception in so many ways, her back-and-forth growth for example, I can understand why she would physically look older, but their really isn't much of a reason except that when their's more solid information on why she couldn't have physically grown any older - that's what I meant by that.

But who knows - her whole transformation was incomplete, and she's an exception in so many ways, maybe she did actually grow very very slowly because of all the people she ate; so by the time Raki met her, meeting that 15-17 age that everyone keeps saying. Of course, once they met, it was all backwards from there .


Riful definitely isn't older then 12 - she's begun puberty but is only in the first or second stage. I think she's 11.5, since she seems to fit that stage the most. I don't put her at twelve, because her bust would have kept growing past what it looks like now.

As silly and funny as it sounds, her bust is actually a pretty accurate way to gauge her age believe it or not . We know she's started the first stages of puberty, the rest is simply narrowing it down.

----

Riful.....ugh, she's honestly self-destructive a little . The thing is, she loves being an Awakened Being and hates all things human. So the idea of a human environment, like a nice warm cottage, probably sickens her....but at the same time, she wants more people by her side...but only Awakened Beings

Simply put, the girl is really really stubborn . She honestly probably would be happier living in a nice warm cottage, but would hate the idea of "stooping as low as to live like a human" or something
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Old 2010-06-22, 21:07   Link #800
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Well maybe she had 2 do live in something large like castle, due 2 the fact that Dauf is prone 2 awakening inside the castle. Can u imagine what would happen 2 the cottage if Dauf awakend inside of one.
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