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Old 2010-06-02, 14:21   Link #21
marvelB
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Oh, and also:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kallen4life View Post
I still have this weird theory that consuming a logia fruit blocks haki .. it's not based on anything really

Doubt it. Marco's a half-Logia himself and he's a Haki user, remember. I guess Ace may have been overconfident with his DF power just like Blackbeard accused him of being when they fought.....
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Old 2010-06-02, 14:23   Link #22
Kallen4life
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Quote:
Marco's a half-Logia himself
he's mystic zoan .. and he doesn't avoid damage like logias, he takes it full on and then insta-heals
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Old 2010-06-02, 14:23   Link #23
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Quote:
-Luffy later tries to search for Ace and Dadan, but the bandits stop him. He's told that the royal army is still busy "cleansing" the trash mountain, and Luffy could get killed if he goes there. Over at Grey Terminal's ruins, the army notices that there are less corpses then they expected, and assume that most of the people there were all burned to ashes. Meanwhile, we see Dragon at his ship, along with Ivankov and, interestingly enough, Bartholomew Kuma. Iva says he's surprised that Dragon's been keeping watch over such a remote area in East Blue, and asks him if it has any special meaning to him. Dragon replies that this nation represents the world's future, and that there's no joy in a world that rids itself of all unnecessary things. He then says that he'll change the world, and tells the survivors of the trash mountain that if they want to fight for freedom, then they're free to join with him......
i think we are going to eventually see the kuma sacrifice himself so that Dragon can gain control of all the Kuma-bots.
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Old 2010-06-02, 14:43   Link #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kallen4life View Post
I still have this weird theory that consuming a logia fruit blocks haki .. it's not based on anything really
You misunderstand what Haki fundamentally is.

Haki is a trait, characteristic carried by a person, like 'Yuuki', which means courage. Just that Haki is a trait that's not recognised in the English language, so translators have to leave it as Japanese, making it look like a noun, making it look and sound like a 'thing'.

If you're saying eating Logia fruits will remove Haki, its like saying eating Logia fruits will remove a person's bravery. Its like saying eating a fruit will remove one's determination, spirit, pride etc.

Haki is carried by everyone, like everyone can bring out courage. Just that not everyone is born to be fearless, some people need to have some kind of training or experience to become brave, Haki is the same. Some people are just born cowardly, people can have extremely weak Haki, but still these people may encounter some kind of experience or training to make them brave or have Haki.
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Old 2010-06-02, 14:48   Link #25
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My review:

Bluejam is still wanting his treasure back, Dadan comes to Ace and Luffy's rescue, and Sabo goes off in a small boat hoisting his own flag. The main interest of this chapter is the revelation of Bartholomew Kuma as a member of the Revolutionaries. If Kuma sent Luffy to Amazon Lily for a reason, that reason better reveal itself before Boa Hancock gets any worse on Luffy. She is in serious need of a lot of common sense.
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Old 2010-06-02, 14:51   Link #26
Kallen4life
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no, I always understood it's like an 'ability', you are either born with it or not .. how brave you are is irrelevant (though if you have it - it helps)

Akainu is quite 'brave' (completely fearless, really .. goes against any opponent/s .. takes 2 quakes to the face and keeps going strong) and as much a determinator as Luffy and WB - and Akainu doesn't have Haki (so far)

also I don't see where get your info from
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Old 2010-06-02, 14:53   Link #27
C.A.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kallen4life View Post
no, I always understood it's like an 'ability', you are either born with it or not .. how brave you are is irrelevant (though if you have it - it helps)

Akainu is quite 'brave' and as much a determinator as Luffy and WB - and Akainu doesn't have Haki (so far)

also I don't see where get your info from
Go read the entire Haki thread if you actually and really want to know more.

And you didn't even understand what I posted. Its not an ability, like courage is not an ability, its a measure of a trait.
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Old 2010-06-02, 14:55   Link #28
Kallen4life
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i read that a bit .. don't know where that info is in the manga

Quote:
Its not an ability, like courage is not an ability, its a measure of a trait.
Oda-sensei tell you that ?


when Luffy unleases KH @ Marineford - they say something like 'so he was born with it .. that's Kings Haki, just like Shanks and the old man' .. or something similar

Mantra is an obvious ability - you have it or not .. how is Haki different ?


basically you say anyone can 'develop' Haki .. I don't see where that is said in the manga
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Old 2010-06-02, 14:58   Link #29
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Haki is innate in everyone, but I believe Kallen4life is talking about the outward manifestation of Haki as a physical attack, which not many characters have shown to do so far.
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Old 2010-06-02, 14:59   Link #30
C.A.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kallen4life View Post
i read that a bit .. don't know where that info is in the manga

Oda-sensei tell you that ?

when Luffy unleases KH @ Marineford - they say something like 'so he was born with it .. that's Kings Haki, just like Shanks and the old man' .. or something similar
Have you seen courage as something completely different and unique in every series that mentions it?

My description of Haki is as fundamental as its definition as a word. Like how one would describe courage as 'being brave', 'fearless' among others.

People can be born as someone who will be completely fearless, like a king. One can be born with Haki like a king, with ambitions as great as one, that is how you're born with Haoushoku Haki.

I do not wish to continue this argument here, we either move ourselves or mods can move it to Haki thread and I'll continue from there if needed.

EDIT: Haki as a manifestation, I've repeated it multiple times all over this subforum as well.
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Old 2010-06-02, 15:00   Link #31
Kallen4life
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Quote:
I believe Kallen4life is talking about the outward manifestation of Haki as a physical attack
yeah .. and from what I understood not anyone can do that, regardless of what their will/courage/etc. is

manga doesn't really elaborate tbh

ok, no more o/t
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Old 2010-06-02, 15:07   Link #32
marvelB
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Hmmm.... looks like I may have spoken too soon when I said that there was no controversy over Ace's Haki burst. But I'm here to address a different matter.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kallen4life View Post
he's mystic zoan .. and he doesn't avoid damage like logias, he takes it full on and then insta-heals

I'm aware that he's a Zoan, but he also shares some properties of a Logia, as well (what with the regeneration and turning into fire and all). Perhaps I should have said that Marco is technically a half-Logia.....?
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Old 2010-06-02, 15:57   Link #33
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So what is exactly the rarest kind of DF? Myth Zoan? Logia?
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Old 2010-06-02, 16:04   Link #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freya View Post
So what is exactly the rarest kind of DF? Myth Zoan? Logia?
Mythical Zoans are probably most rarest followed by Logias.

Oh btw Chapter is out and I really enjoyed reading it, looking forward for next one.
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Old 2010-06-02, 16:11   Link #35
marvelB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freya View Post
So what is exactly the rarest kind of DF? Myth Zoan? Logia?
It's kinda hard to say, since Devil Fruits in general are rare. But certain types of fruits are more rare than others (for instance, Logias are rarer than Paramecias or Zoans). However, Mythical Zoans are supposed to be even rarer than Logias, so I guess that may be the rarest type of fruit overall.....


Anyway, I checked out the full chapter. Definitely some awesome stuff. The nobles continue to be assholes as they show no pity for the lower class. It also turned out that Dragon's group had made a path for the survivors to escape from the fires (which leads to the part where he asks them to join his army). Dadan looked pretty badass fighting against Bluejam, as well. Too bad signs are pointing towards the fight happening offscreen, because I really wanted to see the old lady kicking some more ass....




Also, one thing I find rather curious is that we still haven't seen the Goa King's face yet. I wonder why that is? Does the evil monarch actually have more relevance to the story than we initially thought? Hmmm, maybe the next chapter will explain some things.....



Edit: Ah, Prestige beat me to the DF response!
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Old 2010-06-02, 16:18   Link #36
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Is anyone else getting a little annoyed at the extreme caricature that Oda uses for nearly all nobles? Oda has been reading too much French history...

That being said, I'm really annoyed by all the weird editing in these recent chapters. The various events follow from scene to scene (and panel to panel), but it always seems like a page is missing (for instance, in this chapter, Ace says he will tell Bluejam where their treasure is, but then we cut to right after Ace has already confessed; looking at the rest of the chapter, there is no real reason why Oda couldn't have kept the 2 panels needed for Ace to confess, and cut out 2 other superfluous panels - in other words there was a clear break up in the flow of the chapter for no real reason).

And, to throw fire on the Haki discussion, why is everyone automatically assuming that Ace was the one to Hakipwn Bluejam's crew? Just cause he yelled? Luffy was there too, and we know he has the ability, so why isn't it possible that Luffy used the blast? .

Last edited by james0246; 2010-06-02 at 16:31.
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Old 2010-06-02, 16:28   Link #37
morbosfist
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It is rather off-putting to look at them. Sabo's parents (or whoever that guy is) look decent but the rest are just... wrong.

Strange that Dadan and Ace would not have been found yet. By all accounts Dadan should still be alive, and we know Ace survives, obviously. Where could they have gone in the short term?

As for Ace, giving him Haki (possibly the King version) now seems rather off. It's the kind of thing that might of come in handy against Blackbeard, but he doesn't seem to use it later on,
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Old 2010-06-02, 16:34   Link #38
marvelB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Is anyone else getting a little annoyed at the extreme caricature that Oda uses for nearly all nobles? Oda has been reading too much French history...

Eh, it doesn't really bother me. It's pretty clear to me that Oda wants to make them look as asshole-ish as possible (Stelly particularly takes the cake in this regard....). Besides, it's not like the World Nobles we saw at Sabaody were all that different (well, maybe Sharlia looked more normal than Roswald and Charlos, but still).....



But going back to what I said before, I'm pretty interested in finding out why Oda hid the Goa king's face. He did this last chapter as well, so there's definitely something up here......
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Old 2010-06-02, 16:41   Link #39
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Sabo still alive? Boooooooooooooo!
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Old 2010-06-02, 16:42   Link #40
james0246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
Eh, it doesn't really bother me. It's pretty clear to me that Oda wants to make them look as asshole-ish as possible (Stelly particularly takes the cake in this regard....). Besides, it's not like the World Nobles we saw at Sabaody were all that different (well, maybe Sharlia looked more normal than Roswald and Charlos, but still).....
Having a noble here and there acting like complete douches is fine (and I realize that it has only been "here and there", but since the majority of the villains act the exact same way, the presentation of the doucheness is simply becoming annoying and turning into a one-note joke ("I wonder how Oda will make rich people/nobles look like dicks this week...let's watch!")). But, the sheer over-the-top cartoonish villainy of Oda's nobles is just becoming grating. We get it Oda, the people at the top of the One Piece universe are dicks...

(It's like I said a few days a go, we need a villain with an actual legitimate motive beyond simply killing based an inconceivable MO...)

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Sabo still alive? Boooooooooooooo!
Not for much longer .
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