AnimeSuki Forums

Ilidsor · 2012-06-30, 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Battle Nuns aren't really all that tough considering Touma punched a few of them out pretty easily... Though it makes sense that she would be good when dealing with those of the magic realm. However if we went with just the Anime she's far below Touma, Accelerator, and Mikoto in fighting prowess. Mostly because Index got so little screen time in a show that has her name in it.

Huh? Index gets a ton of screentime. Maybe not in NT, but overall she sill has a lot.

Destined_Fate · 2012-06-30, 22:35

For her own series she didn't get all that much screen time considering the series is named after her. Compare her amount of screen time to Mikoto in Railgun, a huge difference.

Ilidsor · 2012-06-30, 22:50

Yes but just because she's the title character doesn't mean she's the main one. Touma is the main character in Index not her. However in Railgun Misaka is both the title character and the main character. Comparing the two doesn't really make sense.

Wilfriback · 2012-06-30, 22:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilidsor

Yes but just because she's the title character doesn't mean she's the main one. Touma is the main character in Index not her. However in Railgun Misaka is both the title character and the main character. Comparing the two doesn't really make sense.

If you compare another series tittle that have the tittle character as main protagonist like SnS, ZnT, Toradora, etc all of them from Dengeki B, certainly Index is like the black sheep among them

. Diversity is fine with Touma the hero and Accelerator the anti-villain but, well... I think you get the point

.

Chaos2Frozen · 2012-06-30, 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Battle Nuns aren't really all that tough considering Touma punched a few of them out pretty easily...

They are when they swarm you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Though it makes sense that she would be good when dealing with those of the magic realm. However if we went with just the Anime she's far below Touma, Accelerator, and Mikoto in fighting prowess. Mostly because Index got so little screen time in a show that has her name in it.

So what if her fighting prowess is weaker when her main abilities is far more useful, something u keep ignoring in favor of your 'so little screen time' argument.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

For her own series she didn't get all that much screen time considering the series is named after her. Compare her amount of screen time to Mikoto in Railgun, a huge

Index series is on a much larger scale than Railgun's smaller confined setting; it's trying to tell a story much bigger than one girl while Railgun is all about Mikoto.

But most importantly, it's just a title.

Destined_Fate · 2012-06-30, 22:59

Well getting swarmed by mooks isn't really that bad if they're weak mooks.

Eh, that's just how I saw it. Index got little screentime when it's named after her compared to Misaka in Railgun. Sure Index is bigger in scope but you would think she would still do more in her own series. Besides, the Anime failed to convey her usefulness very well, though they managed to up her annoying tendencies like Railgun managed to take Kuroko's perversion up to the 11(At least they managed to dedicate a few episode to Kuroko that didn't try and force her perversion down everyone's throats and gave her character development beyond her desire to sleep with Misaka), and with her fighting abilities not being up to par with the other mains there's not much there for her in the anime series.

Besides, despite Index being big in scope it hasn't stopped Touma from being plastered everywhere just like Railgun plastered Misaka everywhere.

Chaos2Frozen · 2012-06-30, 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilfriback

If you compare another series tittle that have the tittle character as main protagonist like SnS, ZnT, Toradora, etc all of them from Dengeki B, certainly Index is like the black sheep among them

. Diversity is fine with Touma the hero and Accelerator the anti-villain but, well... I think you get the poing

.

Two things, one ZnT is from MF bunko, and you're forgetting Horizon doesn't have their main heroine appear much either so your point is moot. And th main protagonist for all those titles are the guys so urge point is moot a second time.

Secondly, its the readers own expectation that needs to be flexible, there's no rule that the character in the title has the most screentime , forcing your own ideals onto a story is the making of a disaster ...

Wilfriback · 2012-06-30, 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Two things, one ZnT is from MF bunko, and you're forgetting Horizon doesn't have their main heroine appear much either so your point is moot. And th main protagonist for all those titles are the guys so urge point is moot a second time.

Secondly, its the readers own expectation that needs to be flexible, there's no rule that the character in the title has the most screentime , forcing your own ideals onto a story is the making of a disaster ...

Oh that, I did think those novels adapted by JCS were all adapted from DB novels

.

Btw, the point isn't about following a rule but following a tendency people got too used to see/read and that expectative plays a different way people will start to complain.

Chaos2Frozen · 2012-06-30, 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Well getting swarmed by mooks isn't really that bad if they're weak mooks.

Ants are weak, but how do u like to be swarmed by them?

German tiger tanks were stronger than the Russians ', but that doesn't matter than you're fighting ten on one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

I'm just saying it how it is. Index got little screentime when it's named after her compared to Misaka in Railgun. Sure Index is bigger in scope but you would think she would still do more in her own series. Besides, the Anime failed to convey her usefulness very well, though they managed to up her annoying tendencies like Railgun managed to take Kuroko's perersion up to the 11, and with her fighting abilities not being up to par with the other mains there's not much there for her in the anime series.

As far as I can tell your idea of usefulness only includes fighting, otherwise you wouldn't be focusing so much on it. And it's not that they failed to convey her usefulness , it's that people don't acknowledge anything that isn't fighting.

Quote:

Besides, despite Index being big in scope it hasn't stopped Touma from being plastered everywhere just like Railgun plastered Misaka everywhere.

Main Protagonist privileges .

Wilfriback · 2012-06-30, 23:15

Thats why I still hope Index anda Takitsubou will get it... some day...

Chaos2Frozen · 2012-06-30, 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilfriback

Oh that, I did think those novels adapted by JCS were all adapted from DB novels

.

Btw, the point isn't about following a rule but following a tendency people got too used to see/read and that expectative plays a different way people will start to complain.

Hidan no Aria is also from MF Bunko.

Do you know how petty this entire issue is? It's just a name in a title, if it wasn't there we wouldn't be having any argument at all.

What's happening in the Nanoha story is the opposite, because they're bound to the one name in their title they squeeze that character into every story they do without leaving space for new characters to grow much on their own.

Destined_Fate · 2012-06-30, 23:21

You're wrong with your assumption. Touma and Misaka have shown to be very useful even when not fighting. However they can fight as well and got plenty of screentime of them being useful on and off the battlefield. While Index can't really fight that well, she regulates that to Touma, and her screentime is only a portion that Touma got. I expected more from her since it's named after her and Season 2 seemed to have more Misaka than Index in it even though it wasn't Railgun.

Wilfriback · 2012-06-30, 23:28

Actually Index got more screentime than Mikoto in S2....

Chaos2Frozen · 2012-06-30, 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

You're wrong with your assumption. Touma and Misaka have shown to be very useful even when not fighting. However they can fight as well and got plenty of screentime of them being useful on and off the battlefield. While Index can't really fight that well, she regulates that to Touma, and her screentime is only a portion that Touma got. I expected more from her since it's named after her and Season 2 seemed to have more Misaka than Index in it even though it wasn't Railgun.

Simple, Index's non fighting role easily makes up for lack of combat. She's basically an answer sheet as long as you ask the right questions.

Lol what? Mikoto appears more in season two? Please elaborate

Master Assassin · 2012-06-30, 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilfriback

Actually Index got more screentime than Mikoto in S2....

There's also a good clue on where the series is heading after the final episode *cough*ehem*cough*

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Simple, Index's non fighting role easily makes up for lack of combat. She's basically an answer sheet as long as you ask the right questions.

You mean a cheat sheet?

Destined_Fate · 2012-07-01, 00:50

Season 2 ended with Mikoto being the main attraction even if she didn't appear in the final episode, it was all about her. Even Accelerators little groupie he joined at the end was about Mikoto.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Simple, Index's non fighting role easily makes up for lack of combat. She's basically an answer sheet as long as you ask the right questions.

Lol what? Mikoto appears more in season two? Please elaborate

She appears more in that she does something(Though she also appeared just for sheer fanservice but, eh. A lot of Index is fanservice and all the girls were used for that disporportionatly). Index spent too much of her time, when she did appear, leaning too much on Touma doing things in her stead. What they needed was an episode(s) that was just Index without Touma needing to be around and her doing something productive all by herself that isn't just a joke but meaningful. If they could do a few episodes in Railgun for Kuroko that gave her much needed development without Mikoto there than there's no reason they couldn't have spent some time on showing how useful Index can be without Touma being there to bail her out.

Index needs less reliance on Touma doing things for her in her own series, at least the Anime since Anime goers don't know about her exploits in the Manga/LN/ect, and more standing on her own two feet. In that regard Season 2 failed. So hopefully Season 3 better shows off just what Index is capable of on her own even if Season 2 ended up a Mikoto note. I may not like her character, they made her too annoying in the Series like they took Kuroko's perversion too far in Railgun, as much as Misaka but I don't hate her and from from I know of the Manga/LNs she's far more capable and competent than the Anime portrayed her.

Index really just needs a "Did she just do that all by herself? That's awesome!" moment to help flood out the "Why is she so needy? Does she ever stop complaining? Why does she keep biting Touma for every little thing even when it isn't his fault?" impression that many viewers got from her that leads to them assuming she's just very annoying for the sake of it.

Chaos2Frozen · 2012-07-01, 01:12

See what I mean? You've intentionally forget all of Index's serious scenes and acted like they weren't there or just down play them while all Mikoto has to do is appear and you would say she 'does something'.

Heck, you're even giving her credits for her clones and mother? What gives?

Destined_Fate · 2012-07-01, 01:18

They weren't all that serious considering how Touma one ups her so easily in the same episode or any episode really. She hasn't had a moment where she was "awesome" without Touma being there to bail her out or one up what she did which she really needs to help her image that the Anime failed to portray in a good light.

When did I give credit to her for her clones? And you missed the point completely. The Shadow group that recruits Accelerator at the end which explained the hit being dropped and Mikoto being very important in the future. Than there's the reason that Mikoto's mother was targeted was because she was being a hassle and was trying to get Mikoto out of the city - which she decides against after Touma shows his competence. Not to mention that the series ends with Mikoto's mom entrusting Mikoto to Touma and there is foreshadowing that Mikoto will be the target of much importance if they continue from where Season 2 left off. Index was... Where again? Right... Not the best Lead Off for a Season 3 for Index.

Chaos2Frozen · 2012-07-01, 01:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

They weren't all that serious considering how Touma one ups her so easily in the same episode or any episode really. She hasn't had a moment where she was "awesome" without Touma being there to bail her out or one up what she did which she really needs to help her image that the Anime failed to portray in a good light.

And this brings me back again to my other point on how people are so focus on action and that the value of every character has to be judge on their combat skills.

Serious scenes as in when they're talking about the situation at hand and how they should approach it, you know, stuff that isn't comedy relief?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

When did I give credit to her for her clones? And you missed the point completely. The Shadow group that recruits Accelerator helped Mikoto's mom but they only were able to do it because the guy in it is in love with Mikoto. Than there's the reason that Mikoto's mother was targeted was because she was being a hassel and was trying to get Mikoto out of the city. Not to mention that the series ends with Mikoto's mom entrusting Mikoto to Touma and there is foreshadowing that Mikoto will be the target of much importance if they continue from where Season 2 left off. Index was... Where again? Right...

Index? Well she was busy with the Book of Law incident throughout the whole of volume 6, and was caught up in the Queen's Fleet incident of volume 11, not to mention playing that key role in vol 13 to save both Last Order and Kazakiri Hyouka. So that's 2 and a half arcs that involves her personally.

And the best part is? She doesn't need any nonsensically 6-point-of-connection to try to involve her like what you're doing with Mikoto. That's what I mean by giving her credit for just existing- She wasn't there, she didn't do anything.

Destined_Fate · 2012-07-01, 01:35

It isn't just about combat, Touma doesn't need to punch someone out to steal her thunder away. Index really could have used an episode or so, like Kuroko got in Railgun that developed her into more than just a clingy jealous friend that wants to be more, just dedicated to her doing something very useful without Touma needing to be around or one upping her accomplishments. As for talking, talking isn't the same as action - be it fighting or non-fighting.

Yet Anime watchers don't know that. That's what I'be been saying, the Anime failed to portray how competent and capable Index can be without Touma being around.

Uhh, she did exist and her existence was the reason that hit was called on her mother in the first place. You don't need to be around to be important to events(Which is what makes Index so important in the Manga/LN since even when she isn't around her mere existence was the driving point for many things), especially when you're the reason said events are happening to others. Or that there's heavy foreshadowing that because of said events she will be considered of outmost importance to many. The Shadow group is set on fighting for her sake, and others, in the shadows without her knowledge and leaving Touma to be there for her in the light when things slip out or become too much to contain.

That's not the point. Touma, Accelerator, and Misaka have had plots as well that didn't have foreshadowing for them. They just happened. However as a Season ender they didn't even bother to leave anything open for fan interpetation on what will happen concerning Index while they left a great deal concerning Touma, Mikoto, and Accelerator and what they would be doing if a Season 3 starts.

2012-06-30, 23:15	Link #1010
Wilfriback 君思う声 Join Date: Jan 2009 Age: 23	Thats why I still hope Index anda Takitsubou will get it... some day... __________________

2012-06-30, 23:28	Link #1013
Wilfriback 君思う声 Join Date: Jan 2009 Age: 23	Actually Index got more screentime than Mikoto in S2.... __________________

2012-07-01, 01:12	Link #1017
Chaos2Frozen Chaos of Crawling Join Date: Nov 2006 Age: 24	See what I mean? You've intentionally forget all of Index's serious scenes and acted like they weren't there or just down play them while all Mikoto has to do is appear and you would say she 'does something'. Heck, you're even giving her credits for her clones and mother? What gives? __________________

2012-06-30, 22:35	Link #1002
Destined_Fate Love is BURNING!!! Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: "When it comes to Hard Work and Love I will never lose!" - Esther Elhas Age: 24	For her own series she didn't get all that much screen time considering the series is named after her. Compare her amount of screen time to Mikoto in Railgun, a huge difference.

2012-06-30, 22:50	Link #1003
Ilidsor Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010	Yes but just because she's the title character doesn't mean she's the main one. Touma is the main character in Index not her. However in Railgun Misaka is both the title character and the main character. Comparing the two doesn't really make sense.

2012-06-30, 22:59	Link #1006
Destined_Fate Love is BURNING!!! Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: "When it comes to Hard Work and Love I will never lose!" - Esther Elhas Age: 24	Well getting swarmed by mooks isn't really that bad if they're weak mooks. Eh, that's just how I saw it. Index got little screentime when it's named after her compared to Misaka in Railgun. Sure Index is bigger in scope but you would think she would still do more in her own series. Besides, the Anime failed to convey her usefulness very well, though they managed to up her annoying tendencies like Railgun managed to take Kuroko's perversion up to the 11(At least they managed to dedicate a few episode to Kuroko that didn't try and force her perversion down everyone's throats and gave her character development beyond her desire to sleep with Misaka), and with her fighting abilities not being up to par with the other mains there's not much there for her in the anime series. Besides, despite Index being big in scope it hasn't stopped Touma from being plastered everywhere just like Railgun plastered Misaka everywhere.

2012-06-30, 23:21	Link #1012
Destined_Fate Love is BURNING!!! Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: "When it comes to Hard Work and Love I will never lose!" - Esther Elhas Age: 24	You're wrong with your assumption. Touma and Misaka have shown to be very useful even when not fighting. However they can fight as well and got plenty of screentime of them being useful on and off the battlefield. While Index can't really fight that well, she regulates that to Touma, and her screentime is only a portion that Touma got. I expected more from her since it's named after her and Season 2 seemed to have more Misaka than Index in it even though it wasn't Railgun.

2012-07-01, 01:18	Link #1018
Destined_Fate Love is BURNING!!! Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: "When it comes to Hard Work and Love I will never lose!" - Esther Elhas Age: 24	They weren't all that serious considering how Touma one ups her so easily in the same episode or any episode really. She hasn't had a moment where she was "awesome" without Touma being there to bail her out or one up what she did which she really needs to help her image that the Anime failed to portray in a good light. When did I give credit to her for her clones? And you missed the point completely. The Shadow group that recruits Accelerator at the end which explained the hit being dropped and Mikoto being very important in the future. Than there's the reason that Mikoto's mother was targeted was because she was being a hassle and was trying to get Mikoto out of the city - which she decides against after Touma shows his competence. Not to mention that the series ends with Mikoto's mom entrusting Mikoto to Touma and there is foreshadowing that Mikoto will be the target of much importance if they continue from where Season 2 left off. Index was... Where again? Right... Not the best Lead Off for a Season 3 for Index.

2012-07-01, 01:35	Link #1020
Destined_Fate Love is BURNING!!! Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: "When it comes to Hard Work and Love I will never lose!" - Esther Elhas Age: 24	It isn't just about combat, Touma doesn't need to punch someone out to steal her thunder away. Index really could have used an episode or so, like Kuroko got in Railgun that developed her into more than just a clingy jealous friend that wants to be more, just dedicated to her doing something very useful without Touma needing to be around or one upping her accomplishments. As for talking, talking isn't the same as action - be it fighting or non-fighting. Yet Anime watchers don't know that. That's what I'be been saying, the Anime failed to portray how competent and capable Index can be without Touma being around. Uhh, she did exist and her existence was the reason that hit was called on her mother in the first place. You don't need to be around to be important to events(Which is what makes Index so important in the Manga/LN since even when she isn't around her mere existence was the driving point for many things), especially when you're the reason said events are happening to others. Or that there's heavy foreshadowing that because of said events she will be considered of outmost importance to many. The Shadow group is set on fighting for her sake, and others, in the shadows without her knowledge and leaving Touma to be there for her in the light when things slip out or become too much to contain. That's not the point. Touma, Accelerator, and Misaka have had plots as well that didn't have foreshadowing for them. They just happened. However as a Season ender they didn't even bother to leave anything open for fan interpetation on what will happen concerning Index while they left a great deal concerning Touma, Mikoto, and Accelerator and what they would be doing if a Season 3 starts.