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Old 2011-04-07, 15:51   Link #2981
roriconfan
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If the characters are not serious about winning, that automatically makes their efforts to be uniteresting. What lack of communication is this you are talking about? Some liked how the characters were fooling around all the time? That makes the show a plotless gag comedy.
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Old 2011-04-07, 16:05   Link #2982
Sinestra
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ugh i dont even know what to say about the ending. Iv been trying to find the words for days now and just cant. I mean the credits rolled and i was like "oh its over" waited and waited and now follow up just "OVER" it was a fun ride but this kind of ending is what i feel can ruin a series. There are tons of plot holes that we could go over for an eternity and get nowhere.

so in the end it was fun the characters were fun the animation was gorgeous the music was excellent but it fell short in the closing.

solid 7/10
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Old 2011-04-07, 16:08   Link #2983
Nobodyman9
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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
You see that KaioshinSama? Sugata is simply impossible to relate to. You must've just been hallucinating the whole thing. Derp. =P
Well, I dunno. Maybe there are some people who can relate to emotionless pretty boys who are born into wealthy families and are subject to an arranged marriage.
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Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
Could be argued, though if that's the case I think it's telling that he's arguably one of the better handled characters and people could still have trouble relating to him. I still had no problem because at least his character felt consistent compared to say...Keito. In some ways he actually felt more like a main character than Takuto.
Come again?

But yeah, he was consistent. Consistenty boring.

And hey, the creators did say that he and Samekh were the protagonists of this, because apparently they have no idea what a protagonist is.

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You know it had sort of slipped my mind that she was one of the maidens and thus would have a song to sing. Perhaps it was just her overall character development and the fact that singing in a karaoke bar is such a school anime cliche AND that it was pretty much a music video insert that made it irksome.
With the previous two maidens it was pretty clever how their songs were the backdrop to the cybody fights. But hamfisting a music video in for the third..............no.

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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
You see that KaioshinSama? Sugata is simply impossible to relate to. You must've just been hallucinating the whole thing. Derp. =P
Go ahead. Describe his personality to me. I dare you. I double dare you.

Last edited by Nobodyman9; 2011-04-07 at 23:22.
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Old 2011-04-07, 18:15   Link #2984
Funkatron
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My problem with the play wasn't that it was there or its purpose: I understood that it was a way to tell about the past. What annoys me was that they play should have been done eons ago in the anime. It was on what, a few episodes before the show ended and then whatever importance it was supposed to have basically disappeared almost an episode later.

It felt like the play should have been at the latest at the midway point of the series and then used as sort of a platform to build up the rest of the mythology. I also agree that this show should have been condensed into a 1 cour series. Pacing just seemed so all over the place at times, not to mention all the fluff.
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Old 2011-04-08, 03:17   Link #2985
Haak
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Originally Posted by Nobodyman9 View Post
Go ahead. Describe his personality to me. I dare you. I double dare you.
Sugata possess the strongest Cybody and being the heir to the Shindou Clan, he feels he has a great burden as well. Since he found out he’s restricted from leaving the island on his birthday, he’s developed a deep resentment for the day of his birth and would rather mourn than celebrate over it. This also explains why he generally emotionally reserved (Something you probably didn’t get)

Despite all that he has absolutely no problem using a potentially fatal power all for the sake of protecting the person he loves, something that was unexpected since the anime has been hinting that since he resents his duty he’d also resent his engagement to Wako. The reason he wears a dagger of his person at all times isn’t because he feels threatened at all times but because he wants to be able to protect Wako.

And here comes another problem. He’s decided that he needs to seal Samekh and in order to do that he has to sacrifice himself to do it. It’s easy to see why he didn’t consult with Takuto and Wako. He likely couldn’t think of any other plan and he’d know they’d be against it so he could’ve risked throwing away the only plan to save the world by telling Takuto and Wako. But this makes two more problems. One is that he loves Wako and it’s clearly killing him inside (This is why he goes on a date with Wako and acts so strangely. He was essentially saying goodbye). The other is that he needs someone else to protect Wako when he’s gone so he tests and trains Takuto until he’s absolutely satisfied he can protect her (because if you remember Sugata only defects to the GC after Takuto finally beats him in a Kendo match)

Some of these require you to really pay attention to understand. Others were blatantly and outright stated. If you don't find any of that interesting then fine, good for you. But don't pretend he has no depth because he obviously does.
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Last edited by Haak; 2011-04-08 at 04:09.
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Old 2011-04-08, 04:38   Link #2986
Nobodyman9
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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
Sugata possess the strongest Cybody and being the heir to the Shindou Clan, he feels he has a great burden as well. Since he found out heís restricted from leaving the island on his birthday, heís developed a deep resentment for the day of his birth and would rather mourn than celebrate over it. This also explains why he generally emotionally reserved (Something you probably didnít get)

Despite all that he has absolutely no problem using a potentially fatal power all for the sake of protecting the person he loves, something that was unexpected since the anime has been hinting that since he resents his duty heíd also resent his engagement to Wako. The reason he wears a dagger of his person at all times isnít because he feels threatened at all times but because he wants to be able to protect Wako.

And here comes another problem. Heís decided that he needs to seal Samekh and in order to do that he has to sacrifice himself to do it. Itís easy to see why he didnít consult with Takuto and Wako. He likely couldnít think of any other plan and heíd know theyíd be against it so he couldíve risked throwing away the only plan to save the world by telling Takuto and Wako. But this makes two more problems. One is that he loves Wako and itís clearly killing him inside (This is why he goes on a date with Wako and acts so strangely. He was essentially saying goodbye). The other is that he needs someone else to protect Wako when heís gone so he tests and trains Takuto until heís absolutely satisfied he can protect her (because if you remember Sugata only defects to the GC after Takuto finally beats him in a Kendo match)

Some of these require you to really pay attention to understand. Others were blatantly and outright stated. If you don't find any of that interesting then fine, good for you. But don't pretend he has no depth because he obviously does.
Heeeeeeeeeyyyyyyyy, guess who doesn't know what a personality is!
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Old 2011-04-08, 04:53   Link #2987
Arabesque
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Care to enlighten us all then on why all what Haak wrote was wrong?
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Old 2011-04-08, 05:11   Link #2988
Nobodyman9
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Originally Posted by Arabesque View Post
Care to enlighten us all then on why all what Haak wrote was wrong?
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/personality

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bish%C5%8Dnen

Last edited by Nobodyman9; 2011-04-08 at 05:33.
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Old 2011-04-08, 06:22   Link #2989
Haak
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You're definitely insane...

But if you just want behaviour then fine: He's emotionally resevered, strict and introverted (aswell as ruthless in combat). I'd also say he's Plegmatic...

Introversion =/= No personality.

And becoming emotionally attached to a character does not entirely depend upon the characters behaviour either.
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Last edited by Haak; 2011-04-08 at 07:05.
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Old 2011-04-08, 06:58   Link #2990
Kanon
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well for those who are ranting about further easy to comprehend explanations then good news for you all



EDIT:

for those who do not think that quote is making sense then it might imply BONES studio will do specials/ova/movie for Star Driver to make things more easy to understand
I wish all of this had been explained in the anime. Geez, I think that all in all, the interviews have more plot than the anime itself.
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Old 2011-04-08, 12:00   Link #2991
cyoti
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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
I wish all of this had been explained in the anime. Geez, I think that all in all, the interviews have more plot than the anime itself.
I'd recommend watching the show with the sound and the subs instead of just watching the pretty pictures moving and trying to lipread the characters.
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Old 2011-04-08, 12:09   Link #2992
roriconfan
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The first time I watched Neon Genesis, I didn't get half of what was going on. But I could still follow the main story, there was an on-going plot with a few fillers in-between, the characters were given depth and were not thrown in the sidelines after their development episode. That didn't happen here.
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Old 2011-04-08, 12:47   Link #2993
Angelmonster
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Originally Posted by Funkatron View Post
My problem with the play wasn't that it was there or its purpose: I understood that it was a way to tell about the past. What annoys me was that they play should have been done eons ago in the anime. It was on what, a few episodes before the show ended and then whatever importance it was supposed to have basically disappeared almost an episode later.

It felt like the play should have been at the latest at the midway point of the series and then used as sort of a platform to build up the rest of the mythology. I also agree that this show should have been condensed into a 1 cour series. Pacing just seemed so all over the place at times, not to mention all the fluff.
Ia ctually think it was placed perfectly, it gave the back story to what exactly was happening and showed that these is a purpose for everything going on. That the creators of the cybodies are still there, just watching.

I just dislike everythign that happened after it, the pacing was really off. I also still do not understand what the purpose of the lesbian couple was...they simply served no purpose besides new cybodies and they could have done that with just bringing background school characters into the Crux.
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Old 2011-04-08, 12:50   Link #2994
Haak
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Yeah what was the deal with those psycho lesbians? They didn't even have an actual story to them. Just the fact that they frighteningly disregarded everyone and everything but their own pleasure and that's it.
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Old 2011-04-08, 14:44   Link #2995
Nobodyman9
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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
You're definitely insane...

But if you just want behaviour then fine: He's emotionally resevered, strict and introverted (aswell as ruthless in combat). I'd also say he's Plegmatic...

Introversion =/= No personality.
All right, let me be clear. We're not talking about personality in the psychological sense. We're talking about distinctive qualities or character quirks that make the character likeable or interesting, because that's one of the foundations of good storytelling. Thus far you've only really listed two character traits reserved and strict (introverted and Plegmatic are the pretty much the same thing as reserved), neither of which are really appealling at all.

Quote:
And becoming emotionally attached to a character does not entirely depend upon the characters behaviour either.
Actually, yeah, it kinda does. In fact, it's the foundation for becoming emotionally attached to a character. All that subsequent stuff like character development, backstories, and trials that the character faces don't mean anything unless we like the character.
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Old 2011-04-08, 14:56   Link #2996
Haak
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Originally Posted by Nobodyman9 View Post
All right, let me be clear. We're not talking about personality in the psychological sense. We're talking about distinctive qualities or character quirks that make the character likeable or interesting, because that's one of the foundations of good storytelling. Thus far you've only really listed two character traits reserved and strict (introverted and Plegmatic are the pretty much the same thing as reserved), neither of which are really appealling at all.

Actually, yeah, it kinda does. In fact, it's the foundation for becoming emotionally attached to a character. All that subsequent stuff like character development, backstories, and trials that the character faces don't mean anything unless we like the character.
That's pure and utter bullshit. "Quirks" and other behaviour are what idiots need for a foundation. I'd prefer good character depth, development and background any day.
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Old 2011-04-08, 15:00   Link #2997
Nobodyman9
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That's pure and utter bullshit. "Quirks" and other behaviour are what idiots need for a foundation. I'd prefer good character depth, development and background any day.
Character traits first, development and background second. Both are important, but if we don't like the character, the development and backgrounds are meaningless.
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Old 2011-04-08, 15:01   Link #2998
Haak
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Whether you like a persons "Quirks" and other behaviour is entirely dependant on perspective and taste and nothing else. I personally don't mind the reserved and phlegmatic personality and I was able to appreciate it even more when it clearly showed to have a lot of depth to it (as I pointed out).

If you have a problem with introverted characters regardless of how much depth they're given then that's entirely your problem.
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Old 2011-04-08, 15:07   Link #2999
Nobodyman9
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Whether you like a persons "Quirks" and other behaviour is entirely dependant on perspective and taste and nothing else. I personally don't mind the reserved and phlegmatic personality and I was able to appreciate it even more when it clearly showed to have a lot of depth to it (as I pointed out).

If you have a problem with introverted characters regardless of how much depth they're given then that's entirely your problem.
Welp, same to you then. I hope you enjoy your emotionally stagnant bishonens who don't give a damn about anything, don't say or do anything interesting are just sort of...........there.
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Old 2011-04-08, 15:11   Link #3000
Haak
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Nice straw man.

I'll enjoy good character depth, background and development if that's what you mean. I made my point that Sugata is blatantly not emotionally stagnant, gives a damn about a lot of things, and does a some very interesting things. You see? Your way of judging a character completely leads to the wrong conclusions...
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