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Old 2011-04-09, 21:53   Link #3021
Marulash
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Does anyone know when Mizuno's song (Innocent Blue I believe it's called) will be out?
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Old 2011-04-09, 22:09   Link #3022
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Now that I'm thinking about it, what the hell was up with Sugata and the knife thing? Yeah, I get it, he carries around a knife to protect Wako, but from what? Does he just carry it around on the off-chance someone tries to mug her and he just happens to be there? Well, logic would seem to dictate that he would use it if the Glittering Crux members tried to abduct or attack her, but, as it's been said many times already, the GC member seem to have a thing against trying to abduct her outside of Zero Time, despite it being a perfectly logical thing to do.

I mean, they introduce it in that one episode and then he never uses it. Does anyone else think that was kind of a Chekhov's Gun that was never fired?

"Oh, but that's not the point. The point was to show how he felt about Wako and the extremes he would go to to protect her."

Yeah, but isn't kind of a shallow gesture when he doesn't even use it and, when you think about it, won't do any good in the first place?

This is what people are talking about. Little story elements that are introduced in one episode and never brought up again.
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Old 2011-04-09, 23:26   Link #3023
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I took it to be that the knife was symbolic of Sugata wanting to protect Wako and, since he couldn't pilot Smakeh for most of the show/couldn't be walking around with a sword or gun instead, it's not that strange. Plus Wako did use it on the bodysnacher in one episode, the knife was definitely brought up more than once.
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Old 2011-04-09, 23:51   Link #3024
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Originally Posted by wandering-dreamer View Post
I took it to be that the knife was symbolic of Sugata wanting to protect Wako
If I hear the word "symbolic" one more time...
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and, since he couldn't pilot Smakeh for most of the show/couldn't be walking around with a sword or gun instead, it's not that strange.
Why not? A sword I can understand, but why not a gun? It's just as concealable and would be more effective.
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Plus Wako did use it on the bodysnacher in one episode, the knife was definitely brought up more than once.
Yeah, that whole scene (not to mention the actual bodysnatcher characters) was pointless.
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Old 2011-04-10, 01:01   Link #3025
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Review of Star Driver by Shadowmage up at The Nihon Review:

[NHRV] Star Driver: Kagayaki no Takuto
Pretty much on the nose.
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Old 2011-04-10, 04:15   Link #3026
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Originally Posted by Nobodyman9 View Post
Why not? A sword I can understand, but why not a gun? It's just as concealable and would be more effective.
Values dissonance. The only type of people that would have guns in Japan are criminals. But a Tanto is far more ingrained in Japanese culture and the Shindo family is supposed to be traditional.
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Old 2011-04-10, 04:23   Link #3027
Nobodyman9
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Values dissonance. The only type of people that would have guns in Japan are criminals.
And policemen.
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But a Tanto is far more ingrained in Japanese culture and the Shindo family is supposed to be traditional.
Fair enough, but this is all aside from the point that it was ultimately useless and pointless.
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Old 2011-04-10, 04:27   Link #3028
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Useless but not pointless. Sugata couldn't be sure that the GC wouldn't try and take Wako by force and she certainly was in danger once against that fisherman girl's first phase (and it proved handy against the psycho lesbian). Better to have something than nothing at all. It just shows how paranoid Sugata is about Wako's safety. Like WD said, it's supposed to be symbolic more than anything else.
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Old 2011-04-10, 04:44   Link #3029
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Useless but not pointless. Sugata couldn't be sure that the GC wouldn't try and take Wako by force and she certainly was in danger once against that fisherman girl's first phase
Oh yeah, and I'm sure fisherman girl would've been pissing herself if Sugata pulled that knife out on her.
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(and it proved handy against the psycho lesbian).
Pointless scene. Sugata wasn't even the one who used it.
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Better to have something than nothing at all. It just shows how paranoid Sugata is about Wako's safety.
Paranoid and illogical. And as I said before, it's a huge let-down when Sugata doesn't even use it.
Quote:
Like WD said, it's supposed to be symbolic more than anything else.
All right, can we please stop the symbolic stuff. Symbolism is meant to enhance an already good and coherent work. It's not a substitute or placeholder for character emotions and development.
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Old 2011-04-10, 04:52   Link #3030
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Originally Posted by Nobodyman9 View Post
Oh yeah, and I'm sure fisherman girl would've been pissing herself if Sugata pulled that knife out on her.

Pointless scene. Sugata wasn't even the one who used it.
The point is that Wako could still be in danger outside Zero Time.

Quote:
Paranoid and illogical. And as I said before, it's a huge let-down when Sugata doesn't even use it.
You seriously cared that much about something you thought was illogcal to begin with?

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All right, can we please stop the symbolic stuff. Symbolism is meant to enhance an already good and coherent work. It's not a substitute or placeholder for character emotions and development.
...wut?
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Old 2011-04-10, 04:59   Link #3031
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The point is that Wako could still be in danger outside Zero Time.
So?

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You seriously cared that much about something you thought was illogcal to begin with?
I care about it now. It's one thing to be illogical. It's another to not have a payoff. The knife subplot did both.

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...wut?
Nevermind. Look, even it's symbolic it's still a weak symbol for a weak subplot.
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Old 2011-04-10, 05:05   Link #3032
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If Wako would be attacked then he would have some mean to defend her since otherwise he would have nothing at all. Symbolism is nice and all but on a narrative meaning it makes no sense at all. They could have used different means to express how Sugata goes to extremes to protect Waku and not the overall cliché of "he has a knife, so it must be to protect people. Look how extreme he is.". The knife hardly shows it because it is tossed aside for Waku to be used, the extreme part is never used so it is kind of silly for them to state so. Guns aren't an option, they are hardly ever an option: in Japan a knife or sword is accociated with protecting someone it is a cultural thing of ancient history. Guns cannot properly defend but instead kill people, no one really dies in this show so they left that out (violence lol). Whenever a girl carries a knife around it is considered as protection, it has been used before in any series with miko's or older women who carry it with them for their own protection. Used too many times if I must add. I agree that it was rather useless though, the powers they oppose from the Crux society would hardly be shaken by the sight of a knife, the knife was meant for Waku to be able to protect herself not Sugata protecting her to extremes because the extreme part doesn't even happen. It is one of the many clichés you see in this series, which is too bad.
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Old 2011-04-10, 05:06   Link #3033
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Originally Posted by Nobodyman9 View Post
So?
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Originally Posted by Nobodyman9 View Post
Now that I'm thinking about it, what the hell was up with Sugata and the knife thing? Yeah, I get it, he carries around a knife to protect Wako, but from what? Does he just carry it around on the off-chance someone tries to mug her and he just happens to be there? Well, logic would seem to dictate that he would use it if the Glittering Crux members tried to abduct or attack her, but, as it's been said many times already, the GC member seem to have a thing against trying to abduct her outside of Zero Time, despite it being a perfectly logical thing to do.
From danger. Wako was still in danger. From the off chance that anything could happen, he would be prepared.

Quote:
I care about it now. It's one thing to be illogical. It's another to not have a payoff. The knife subplot did both.

Nevermind. Look, even it's symbolic it's still a weak symbol for a weak subplot.
Well that's your loss. Frankly I think Sugata using the knife to prove he cares about Wako would be kinda pointless since we already saw him use a first phase that nearly killed him...
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Old 2011-04-10, 05:17   Link #3034
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Well that's your loss. Frankly I think Sugata using the knife to prove he cares about Wako would be kinda pointless since we already saw him use a first phase that nearly killed him...
So it would be pointless for him to use the weapon he said he would use to protect Wako? Yeah...sure.

I want to stress that this was not an inherently stupid subplot, it's just that it was executed poorly. There was no payoff and there seemed to be no reason for Sugata to carry the knife. As you said, he did use his first phase, which nearly killed him, to protect Wako and that was good. That did show how far he was willing to go. But what about when they're not in Zero Time. What about when they're not in a private or secluded place? What if Wako was attacked or threatened in or near a public place where it would be unfeasible to activate phases? That would be a great time to bring out the knife. But no, I guess the writers weren't that creative.

Oh well.
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Old 2011-04-10, 05:23   Link #3035
Haak
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That sound cheap, not creative.

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Originally Posted by Nobodyman9 View Post
So it would be pointless for him to use the weapon he said he would use to protect Wako? Yeah...sure. .
After using first phase yes. The first phase did all the payoff symbolically that the knife could've possibly done, and then some. There's no point after that. Sugata could've used it in a situation were he could only use his knife but then what would that really mean besides it's practicality (which was never the point)?

It's far more creative to give it to the girl it's supposed to protect and then have HER use it instead. Both the symbolic and practical sides of the knife were sufficiently satisfied.
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Old 2011-04-10, 10:42   Link #3036
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Spoiler for Kanako Watanabe:
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Old 2011-04-10, 10:56   Link #3037
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Suguta had a shit ton of problems that were a mental burden. One could only imagine what was going inside his head.

He knew that because he had the mark, he had the likely chance of dying if he ever used his first phase because all previous members had suffered from that.

He also knew that his maids were trained to kill him if he ever showed signs of trying to destroy zero time. His actions were very much observed and he could not act or speak with that kind of risk.

The whole knife thing has symbolical meaning in that it represented his resolve to use his life for Wako. Wako getting it as a birthday present seemed like a sign that Suguta no longer felt the need to risk his own life and sacrifice himself.

In the second to last episode Suguta made a comment that paralleled Takuto's old friend who knew he was going to die, this was a sign that Suguta was prepared to die.

If you knew you were going to die, would you honestly try to be outgoing and friendly with everyone? People can often try to cut ties with people to soften the impact after one is dead.

Hell his subtlety created a wonder as to what Suguta's true intentions were at the end. It helps add to the desire to watch and see more.

Quote:
I want to stress that this was not an inherently stupid subplot, it's just that it was executed poorly. There was no payoff and there seemed to be no reason for Sugata to carry the knife. As you said, he did use his first phase, which nearly killed him, to protect Wako and that was good. That did show how far he was willing to go. But what about when they're not in Zero Time. What about when they're not in a private or secluded place? What if Wako was attacked or threatened in or near a public place where it would be unfeasible to activate phases? That would be a great time to bring out the knife. But no, I guess the writers weren't that creative.
They would never be attacked out in an open area, the Crux is a "Secret Organization" thats members don't even know who is in it. So they couldn't act much like a group in a public situation. The knife was symbolic, is everyone that carries a symbolic item pointless? A cross is tech a tool of torture, so should everyone go around torturing each other if they carry it?

They lured Minori into a secluded place because they just can't act out in the open. Its just how they roll.
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Old 2011-04-10, 15:32   Link #3038
Kaioshin Sama
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Originally Posted by Nobodyman9 View Post
Pretty much on the nose.
Too generous IMO, but then again I find nihon review to be a pretty poor compass for recommendations at the best of times. Maybe its the format, or maybe its the fact that after that Kavik Ryx dude left the remainder just feels too skewed toward a certain demographic that is incapable of representing or recommending for my taste in anime.

Basically I go with ANN overall if I can't get a read on a show I might want to watch as long as its not a Carlo Santo review.
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Old 2011-04-10, 21:23   Link #3039
Nobodyman9
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That sound cheap, not creative.
I would ask how my scenario is cheap, but then again you're the guy who prefers Bleach over One Piece.
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After using first phase yes. The first phase did all the payoff symbolically that the knife could've possibly done, and then some. There's no point after that. Sugata could've used it in a situation were he could only use his knife but then what would that really mean besides it's practicality (which was never the point)?
If the knife can't be used and there's no reason for Sugata to use it, then it's a completely shallow gesture! There's no meaning to it!
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It's far more creative to give it to the girl it's supposed to protect and then have HER use it instead. Both the symbolic and practical sides of the knife were sufficiently satisfied.
Eh, I guess that was kind of a neat twist. But I still hold that it was a pointless scene and the knife subplot wasn't used to its full potential.
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Originally Posted by Sekirei07 View Post
If you knew you were going to die, would you honestly try to be outgoing and friendly with everyone? People can often try to cut ties with people to soften the impact after one is dead.
Are you saying that this is the reason he was emotionally reserved throughout the whole series? If so, then why did he form a friendship with Takuto? Why did he go out on casual outings?
Quote:
Hell his subtlety created a wonder as to what Suguta's true intentions were at the end. It helps add to the desire to watch and see more.
A character can be vibrant and lively and you can still be wondering what their intentions are if they do something strange. Sugata's reservedness actually made it less impactfulness since the audience has a limited scope of what kind of person he is.
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The knife was symbolic, is everyone that carries a symbolic item pointless? A cross is tech a tool of torture, so should everyone go around torturing each other if they carry it?
Crosses have very different connotations now then they did 2000 years ago. But when a person is carrying around a knife for the explicit purpose of using it to protect someone, then yeah, it should be used.
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Basically I go with ANN overall if I can't get a read on a show I might want to watch as long as its not a Carlo Santo review.
Currently they have Code Geass R2 rated as the 5th best anime of all time.

Yeah, no.
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Old 2011-04-10, 22:25   Link #3040
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Originally Posted by Nobodyman9 View Post
I would ask how my scenario is cheap, but then again you're the guy who prefers Bleach over One Piece.

If the knife can't be used and there's no reason for Sugata to use it, then it's a completely shallow gesture! There's no meaning to it!

Eh, I guess that was kind of a neat twist. But I still hold that it was a pointless scene and the knife subplot wasn't used to its full potential.

Are you saying that this is the reason he was emotionally reserved throughout the whole series? If so, then why did he form a friendship with Takuto? Why did he go out on casual outings?

A character can be vibrant and lively and you can still be wondering what their intentions are if they do something strange. Sugata's reservedness actually made it less impactfulness since the audience has a limited scope of what kind of person he is.

Crosses have very different connotations now then they did 2000 years ago. But when a person is carrying around a knife for the explicit purpose of using it to protect someone, then yeah, it should be used.

Currently they have Code Geass R2 rated as the 5th best anime of all time.

Yeah, no.
You do realize that that is a user poll and has absolutely nothing to do with the staff whatsoever. Also since when does a persons credibility hinge on whether they like code geass r2. This isn't 4chan here.

Speaking of which, while I still agree with the majority of points made about this show I must add that you are dangerously close to thread shitting territory here. Give the thread at least some room to breath man. It's not going to make your conviction about the shows quality any less strong.
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