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Old 2011-07-10, 18:34   Link #3261
Leave The Pieces
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IkuzeMinna View Post
Colony leader Heero Yuy was assassinated in AC 175. It's safe to say that he can't be the father of anyone who isn't at least twenty in the series.
Unless of course we get more test tube baby cloning BS like with Quatrine.

Talking about Quatrine, is she Quatre's sister now or is she his clone? If he's gonna use her for spare parts (lolwhat?!), there should be a significant difference, no?
Maybe Sumizawa's a fan of the Island and Never Let Me Go. Especially the latter, what with clones' cliche 'purpose of existence' drama and all. Great book, though. =P

Hilarity aside, do we know if Quatre was the last child his mother got to 'conceive' before she died? Can't remember. It's been ages.

Anyway, if he wasn't, I think it's lame that Sumizawa had to have him cloned (and call this clone his sister; originals and clones are NOT siblings) so that he has a "spare", when he could've just made Quatrine a designer baby for him instead.

Plus, if he really wants them related, designer babies are a much better excuse because designer babies and the individuals from which their 'designs' were based on ARE siblings. No one can question that.

Last edited by Leave The Pieces; 2011-07-10 at 18:50. Reason: Pronoun misuse =P
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Old 2011-07-11, 01:11   Link #3262
Kitsoru
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EDIT: Things to clear up:

2. The Noinheim Konzern. How do they figure into the convoluted mess everyone's in?
They are Noin's family, and they were the spearheaders of Mars colonization- implicitly beginning DURING AC, so they were already there when the series was taking place.

3. The PPP.
Nanotech technology that I think is somehow related to them which inhibits anyone but Heero from acting violently towards Relena (hence why he has to be the one to kill her). So as SkullFaerie said, forced pacifism.

4. What happened in Libra/what was discovered there.
That line is just Duo referencing Hilde, as Ikuze said.

Though as far as I understood, Epyon is essentially piloted by itself via ZERO System, so you could say Wu Fei is fighting Epyon rather than holo!Zechs.
I don't think that's totally the case, it's more that the nanotech Zechs is created from the memories of Zechs and like how ZERO was used to restore Heero's memories, Epyon's System is acting the same way as the nanoZechs' 'memories'.
I think.

The spare explanation is as was said, a clone created by rich families for their children as backups in case their children are harmed or sick. Katherine was Quatre's, created by Zayeed Winner.

Talking about Quatrine, is she Quatre's sister now or is she his clone?
Technically, she's both; and besides that she was raised as his sister anyway.

do we know if Quatre was the last child his mother got to 'conceive' before she died?
Considering she died in childbirth, yes.

Last edited by Kitsoru; 2011-07-11 at 01:21.
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Old 2011-07-11, 02:47   Link #3263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitsoru View Post
EDIT: Things to clear up:

2. The Noinheim Konzern. How do they figure into the convoluted mess everyone's in?
They are Noin's family, and they were the spearheaders of Mars colonization- implicitly beginning DURING AC, so they were already there when the series was taking place.
Yes, but what I meant was... what were they trying to achieve? Has anything about their intentions been mentioned so far?

Quote:
3. The PPP.
Nanotech technology that I think is somehow related to them which inhibits anyone but Heero from acting violently towards Relena (hence why he has to be the one to kill her). So as SkullFaerie said, forced pacifism.
So... Does that mean that the PPP is only Relena-related? Violence still exists, just not towards her?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leave The Pieces
Maybe Sumizawa's a fan of the Island and Never Let Me Go. Especially the latter, what with clones' cliche 'purpose of existence' drama and all. Great book, though. =P
Haha, he could be. I love The Island and Never Let Me Go. :3 I wonder how it's going to play out should Quatre get harmed and need an organ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkullFaerie
I agree. Zechs was confusing enough when he was one person. Plus, he has reasonably re-integrated himself as having reasonable goals by the time EW came around.
Now what is he doing? Is it shady again? It sure seems like it. What happened to his character development? Did it get swept away in the winds of cyrene??
---
...... so, Zechs= Lord Voldemort?
Why, every time I try to understand FT, I need an aspirin.
Hahaha! You're not alone.

EDIT: Amen on Zechs being confusing enough as one person. Dude's always trying to find his purpose/something to protect. >_> I'm not quite sure what the man's up to come MC022, but I believe he was bounty-hunting that time he met Duo and entrusted Naina to him (so she could be sent off to Hilde).

Last edited by Mareike; 2011-07-11 at 11:43. Reason: Added quote and response.
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Old 2011-07-11, 04:43   Link #3264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitsoru View Post
The spare explanation is as was said, a clone created by rich families for their children as backups in case their children are harmed or sick. Katherine was Quatre's, created by Zayeed Winner.

Talking about Quatrine, is she Quatre's sister now or is she his clone?
Technically, she's both; and besides that she was raised as his sister anyway.

do we know if Quatre was the last child his mother got to 'conceive' before she died?
Considering she died in childbirth, yes.
Oh good, cloning is the last resort then indeed.

Still, I don't get how Quatre and Quatrine are siblings?
She was raised to pose as a sister of his, yeah, but technically, she isn't his sister because she's nothing but his clone... right? Unless, in this particular universe, clones are considered to be an original's sibling? Afaik, one is only considered a (whole) sibling if the sperm cell and egg cell from which he or she originated from, came from the same parents, the preceding generation.

But since clones are produced from the single cells of the same generation, that means they don't have parents. Which means they can't have siblings. I don't pretend to know a lot about cloning and shiz. I'm just stating the general idea I have, so please correct me if I'm wrong. It's no biggie anyway, I'm just a bit... intrigued.

Also, has it been mentioned if cloning is considered illegal within this universe? Or does it simply depend on the country/colony/planet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mareike View Post
I love The Island and Never Let Me Go. :3 I wonder how it's going to play out should Quatre get harmed and need an organ...
I like them too. The general plot is pretty cliche but the delivery and execution were great, I reckon. Regarding your following statement, I can see a My Sister's Keeper on that one... lol jks. Nah, seriously, Quatre being Quatre, I doubt he'll let other people get hurt for him (unless he gets hit by the character derailment plague, too). Especially if he considers that person family. So if something bad happens to him, I don't think he'll allow anyone to dissect Quatrine like a toad (even if she herself begged him endlessly) just so he can have her heart, lungs, etc. despite the fact that he knows she was made for just that. Sap is a must lol.

Sumizawa made Quatrine Quatre's clone for the drama, I reckon. Not for the same reasons as Rashid's lol. Fortunately for Quatrine, Sumizawa trumps Rashid, haha. XD

Last edited by Leave The Pieces; 2011-07-11 at 05:13. Reason: Didn't want to spam. ;)
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Old 2011-07-11, 14:13   Link #3265
Kitsoru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mareike View Post
Yes, but what I meant was... what were they trying to achieve? Has anything about their intentions been mentioned so far?
That we don't really know yet, but it seems Relena was 'kidnapped' by them or taken hostage or somesuch for their use, so I guess it's world (Mars in this case) domination of..some sort. Or something.
Maybe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mareike View Post
So... Does that mean that the PPP is only Relena-related? Violence still exists, just not towards her?
Yanno, I'm not sure. I'd like to say it is because we clearly see that Wufei and nanoZechs are fighting each other, right? And Jr. seems able to pilot just fine, while he and Heero were pursuing Katherine. So it might be, but not certain. Maybe it's different because they're fighting a nanotech person (not a "real" person) and mobile dolls, respectively, so I dunno if we can say for certain yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leave The Pieces View Post
Still, I don't get how Quatre and Quatrine are siblings?
She was raised to pose as a sister of his, yeah, but technically, she isn't his sister because she's nothing but his clone... right? Unless, in this particular universe, clones are considered to be an original's sibling? Afaik, one is only considered a (whole) sibling if the sperm cell and egg cell from which he or she originated from, came from the same parents, the preceding generation.

But since clones are produced from the single cells of the same generation, that means they don't have parents. Which means they can't have siblings. I don't pretend to know a lot about cloning and shiz. I'm just stating the general idea I have, so please correct me if I'm wrong. It's no biggie anyway, I'm just a bit... intrigued.

Also, has it been mentioned if cloning is considered illegal within this universe? Or does it simply depend on the country/colony/planet?XD
Yes, yes, I know how cloning works. Simplest answer is... because they say so. Clones just seem to be CONSIDERED siblings in this culture; when they introduce the concept of spares, they mention that the spares and originals refer to each other as siblings (there was a specific name actually, but it escapes me at the moment), so that's just how they refer to each other.

And no, it's not illegal; it actually seems to be a luxury reserved for the wealthy.

(Speaking of Rashid, btw, he's married by the time of Katherine's backstory; but he and Iria seem to flirt or something during that time. It never goes anywhere, though.)

Also, for those who were pining for a peacecraft family portrait:
Spoiler for from pixiv:

Last edited by Kitsoru; 2011-07-11 at 14:53.
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Old 2011-07-12, 03:43   Link #3266
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From what I can discern with my limited skills this novel is actually turning out much better, than I thought it was going to be a few months ago, still confusing but at least interestingly confusing.
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Old 2011-07-12, 07:47   Link #3267
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Originally Posted by Kitsoru View Post
EDIT: Things to clear up:



3. The PPP.
Nanotech technology that I think is somehow related to them which inhibits anyone but Heero from acting violently towards Relena (hence why he has to be the one to kill her). So as SkullFaerie said, forced pacifism.
so it takes Heero a century to FINALLY kill her, (if he do it anyway)
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Old 2011-07-12, 10:22   Link #3268
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so it takes Heero a century to FINALLY kill her, (if he do it anyway)
We all know he won't do it.
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Old 2011-07-12, 10:28   Link #3269
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Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou View Post
We all know he won't do it.
He'll do it unless he says he'll kill someone. Then we know he won't kill that person.
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Old 2011-07-12, 11:47   Link #3270
IkuzeMinna
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
He'll do it unless he says he'll kill someone. Then we know he won't kill that person.
But he said he'd kill Relena Peacecraft. Hence why we know he won't do it. xD
Unless he kills her like he killed Mariemaia.
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Old 2011-07-12, 13:31   Link #3271
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Originally Posted by IkuzeMinna View Post
But he said he'd kill Relena Peacecraft. Hence why we know he won't do it. xD
Unless he kills her like he killed Mariemaia.
Haha, oh Heero.
I felt sorta relieved and happy for him when he said, "I'll never have to kill anyone again. I don't have to anymore."
*shakes Sumisawa by the shoulders* WHY YOU DISREGARD EVERYTHING

I guess Relena's an exception to everything though hehe.
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Old 2011-07-12, 19:58   Link #3272
IkuzeMinna
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Haha, oh Heero.
I felt sorta relieved and happy for him when he said, "I'll never have to kill anyone again. I don't have to anymore."
*shakes Sumisawa by the shoulders* WHY YOU DISREGARD EVERYTHING

I guess Relena's an exception to everything though hehe.
What about Quatre and Zechs? And Treize? Actually, I'll be surprised if he kills anyone (with a name). If he does manage to, I bet it's gonna be the wrong person like with Noventa or the little girl. For being a trained assassin Heero really sucks at getting the job done correctly. xD
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Old 2011-07-12, 23:52   Link #3273
Mareike
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Originally Posted by Kitsoru View Post
That we don't really know yet, but it seems Relena was 'kidnapped' by them or taken hostage or somesuch for their use, so I guess it's world (Mars in this case) domination of..some sort. Or something.
Maybe.
Really, really interested to see how this plays out. NOOOOIN! Your family's wreaking havoc, what are you doing???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitsoru
Yanno, I'm not sure. I'd like to say it is because we clearly see that Wufei and nanoZechs are fighting each other, right? And Jr. seems able to pilot just fine, while he and Heero were pursuing Katherine. So it might be, but not certain. Maybe it's different because they're fighting a nanotech person (not a "real" person) and mobile dolls, respectively, so I dunno if we can say for certain yet.
Quote:
Also, for those who were pining for a peacecraft family portrait:
Spoiler for from pixiv:
Hahaha! Thanks! They're so adorable... I just wish the Mr. and Mrs. are there, too.

Hm. I suddenly remembered that Karla (I think), posted her artwork of the kids and auntie, too. Lovely art that was.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IkuzeMinna View Post
But he said he'd kill Relena Peacecraft. Hence why we know he won't do it. xD
Unless he kills her like he killed Mariemaia.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IkuzeMinna View Post
What about Quatre and Zechs? And Treize? Actually, I'll be surprised if he kills anyone (with a name). If he does manage to, I bet it's gonna be the wrong person like with Noventa or the little girl. For being a trained assassin Heero really sucks at getting the job done correctly. xD
I'm leaning towards the way he killed Mareimaia. Symbolic killing, anyone?
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Old 2011-07-13, 14:01   Link #3274
Kitsoru
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Yeah, same. I think he's gonna 'kill' Relena Peacecraft, and leave Relena Darlian remaining again :U

o Heero u so predictable

By the way, new Gundam Concierge with Epyon and Epyon White: http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__...34527EGW56.jpg
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Old 2011-07-13, 16:34   Link #3275
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Makes me wonder why the other protagonists decided to side with Relena when she herself has sided with Heero? I doubt it's because Naina, Milou, Quatrine, etc. are actually supportive of her captors' monkey business. Maybe it's cuz they think there's a better way of dealing with this, without having to kill Relena? You know, cuz they're family and all. Family means nobody gets left behind! Lol
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Old 2011-07-13, 19:59   Link #3276
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Makes me wonder why the other protagonists decided to side with Relena when she herself has sided with Heero? I doubt it's because Naina, Milou, Quatrine, etc. are actually supportive of her captors' monkey business. Maybe it's cuz they think there's a better way of dealing with this, without having to kill Relena? You know, cuz they're family and all. Family means nobody gets left behind! Lol
Yeah, I'm wondering myself WHY there's a divide at all if Relena isn't against them... But I think it's like you've said. For example Katherine said when she was escaping, something about turning Mars into the Sanc Kingdom? So maybe yeah, they want to fix things a different way. Makes me wonder if that means Katherine, Milou and Naina are actually disobeying Relena, now...
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Old 2011-07-13, 20:51   Link #3277
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By the way, new Gundam Concierge with Epyon and Epyon White: http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__...34527EGW56.jpg
With White having been revealed, I'm hoping we can finally get a real glimpse of the other new mobile suits.
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Old 2011-07-13, 22:24   Link #3278
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Yeah, I'm wondering myself WHY there's a divide at all if Relena isn't against them... But I think it's like you've said. For example Katherine said when she was escaping, something about turning Mars into the Sanc Kingdom? So maybe yeah, they want to fix things a different way. Makes me wonder if that means Katherine, Milou and Naina are actually disobeying Relena, now...
Wow, I just realised the first sentence from my previous post sounded incredibly dumb. Eek. Glad you got what I meant, though. Phew.

Anyway, have we been informed if Relena's aware of the battle between Yuy Team and Quatrine (the one where she gets picked up by the 69 twins afterward)? Hmm. If she isn't, I'm hoping it's because the kids are keeping it from her. Cuz I'm really leaning towards them disobeying her (like your speculations), because then, that would mean the kids think there's another way to rectify the situation without hurting Relena. Maybe not as failsafe as Operation Mythos, but still.

Something tells me the drama is just beginning... that we haven't seen nothing yet. So I'm getting really paranoid here. I don't want Relena to die. That would be too much. Everything else, I will try to swallow. But her dying... my, ahem, humble Relena fangirl heart won't be able to survive THAT kind of drama. I just know it.
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Old 2011-07-14, 02:50   Link #3279
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Originally Posted by Elo the Blue View Post
With White having been revealed, I'm hoping we can finally get a real glimpse of the other new mobile suits.
Haha, we wish...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leave The Pieces View Post
Anyway, have we been informed if Relena's aware of the battle between Yuy Team and Quatrine (the one where she gets picked up by the 69 twins afterward)? Hmm. If she isn't, I'm hoping it's because the kids are keeping it from her. Cuz I'm really leaning towards them disobeying her (like your speculations), because then, that would mean the kids think there's another way to rectify the situation without hurting Relena. Maybe not as failsafe as Operation Mythos, but still.
I don't think she was, no.... And it may well turn out to be one of those things where both sides seek the same goal but in different ways, yanno? It's weird, we still don't really know much about the state of the ESUN, the colonies, etc in this age, since it's all been focused on Mars. So we don't really know a whole lot about the ESUN's motivations here...
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Old 2011-07-14, 05:21   Link #3280
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It's weird, we still don't really know much about the state of the ESUN, the colonies, etc in this age, since it's all been focused on Mars. So we don't really know a whole lot about the ESUN's motivations here...
Wow you're so nice. "Weird" is the most decent way of putting it. I'd use the word... nah, nevermind. Too harsh. XD

Btw, random question here. Did anyone else other than Sumizawa see some chemistry between Quatre and Noin? During the series, I mean. Honestly, Milou and Quatrine? Umm. Didn't see that one coming. I think they make a rather curious ship, no?

Oh well, at least the idea is unique, albeit totally random. Don't think the fandom influenced him on that one.
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