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Old 2012-07-07, 02:01   Link #4601
Destined_Fate
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It's been a very long time already, how many years are readers supposed to wait for explanations over why some of their favorite characters are so messed up? As far as things are concerned nothing has really been explained for such radically different takes on some of these fan favorite characters.
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Old 2012-07-07, 02:53   Link #4602
Tendou Souji
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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
You don't read anything you respond to do you? It's sudden because it happens off screen and fans aren't given any explanation. They're just supposed to accept that Duo, who was happy with Hilde at the end of EW, is suddenly a jerk that has no trace of his old self at all? You know, the character that fans loved in the first place and were expecting to see in a sequel to their favorite series? So what was the point in using Duo if he doesn't resemble his old self and is a complete stranger to fans? Oh right, just a bad writer using an established characters identity and looks to try and sell someone that's completely different.

And again, why should anyone care what you say if you can't even stop yourself from hurling insults every chance you get? How are you even making a point if you must resort to such pettiness?
How can someone who continuously ignores evidence from the novels say someone else doesn't read what others post? Duo and Hilde had very little evidence supporting a long term relationship. They weren't shown to be in love like Zechs and Noin. There is no evidence to that. Going on dates doesn't suddenly mean a long term relationship, love or soul mates. Even if there was evidence to that people change. BTW present Duo does act like he did during Wing. Only more mature. He even had another misunderstanding with Heero where Heero said something, Duo misinterpreted it, agreed, realized what Heero said and got offended. He and Wufei still bickered like they did at the base when they were prisoners. He still addresses Relena in a respectful manner. He still talks about never telling lies. He still calls something his partner. He still shows his mechanic, stealing and scavenging skills. Go read the chapters focusing on him before bashing his character. Duo went through a dark phase in life and recovered

You don't seem to understand how humans work at all. No one is going to be happy all the time. We saw Duo break down during the show when Deathscythe was destroyed. We saw how depressed that made him. Go read up on PTSD. It can occur at anytime. Some veterans have it 50 years later. Some people have it immediately. Duo was a mental breakdown waiting to happen. They all were. Every single one of them was a mental breakdown waiting to happen. They were too young to go through what they went through without any mental damage. That would make them completely unrealistic gary stus.
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Old 2012-07-07, 03:57   Link #4603
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Again you're implying. I'm not ignoring anything, FT simply has done a horrible job explaining anything concerning why the characters are so radically different, Duo/Hilde/Quatre, or why the characters that used to be so pro-active, Millardo, would let something like that happen. Than they killed his "fake" and it becomes clear that Millardo was written as incompetent so that they could use his "death" as a shock value to get fans interested only that he didn't "die" at all. Which makes the whole fake Millarido thing even dumber since he let it happen.

Also, you're one to talk. People change, sure. However these are characters of a story, fans came expecting to see the characters they loved. Instead what they got is something radically different with ZERO explanation over why FT made it its mission on butchering their favorite characters likeness while said characters have nothing relatable to the one fans loved. It's bad writing and it relies too heavily on "Oh, there was a time skip and stuff happened that we wont explain. Just take our word for it". That's just stupid and those that just take it without caring for the "why" are being lead around like a bunch of blind sheep that are too foolish to question their Master as they're lead off a cliff.

And no, FT Duo is nothing like Wing TV and EW Duo. Many have already pointed out numerous inconsistencies that go against what made Duo, Duo. Inconsitencies you never bothered to address and have instead ignored because they're irrefutable. Than the points you do nitpick on you use the "Time Skip, and people change over time" excuses yet when people ask for "Why" this all happened you have... Nothing but those excuses because FT doesn't even bother trying to explain a thing. It just drops off the radical changes to beloved characters, that made them unrecognizable, and expects them to be taken at face value, no questions asked.
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Old 2012-07-07, 05:43   Link #4604
Daniel E.
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@ Tendou Souji and Destined_Fate

Guys, I think it's clear neither one of you is going to convince the other, so why don't you guys calm some and agree to disagree. Please don't turn a simple disagreement into a personal argument.
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Old 2012-07-07, 05:50   Link #4605
Destined_Fate
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Eh, I didn't intend for it to devoid to that. I'll just take your advice when concerning issues such as this.

Anyway, moving on.

Who's betting that the other unrevealed Gundams will just end up look like their old selves only 3.0? I'm personally am lowering my standards for the other Gundams by a great deal so that way I wont be disappointed when they're finally revealed. It's an old saying of my Father, "If you don't expect much of something you can't help but be surprised when you see it".
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Old 2012-07-07, 13:51   Link #4606
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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Eh, I didn't intend for it to devoid to that. I'll just take your advice when concerning issues such as this.

Anyway, moving on.

Who's betting that the other unrevealed Gundams will just end up look like their old selves only 3.0? I'm personally am lowering my standards for the other Gundams by a great deal so that way I wont be disappointed when they're finally revealed. It's an old saying of my Father, "If you don't expect much of something you can't help but be surprised when you see it".
Did you expect something completely off the wall? They're successors to the five Gundams, of course they're going to share the same themes. Prometheus looks exactly the way it should: a Heavyarms upgrade with some new armor patterns and a bunch of new weapons.

I expect the same out of the other 5 and look forward to it.

It seems like you expected something that's not Gundam Wing, and got upset when you found out it was.
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Old 2012-07-07, 14:25   Link #4607
Eeni
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Did you expect something completely off the wall? They're successors to the five Gundams, of course they're going to share the same themes. Prometheus looks exactly the way it should: a Heavyarms upgrade with some new armor patterns and a bunch of new weapons.

I expect the same out of the other 5 and look forward to it.

It seems like you expected something that's not Gundam Wing, and got upset when you found out it was.
I think what Destined is trying to say is that even within the series, the Wing and Wing ZERO had a significant facelift.

Unfortunately, we were given Prometheus, an upgrade of HeavyArms. But HeavyArms really didn't get an upgrade in the series... HeavyArms & Sandrock pretty much stayed the same, just upgraded for battle in outer space. Even their upgrade in the OVA wasn't a large leap (especially HeavyArms) whereas all the others had pretty huge changes in both color and mechanical design.

And as a final note, yes I did read FT as far as I could stomach it. I'll admit that I haven't gotten past the fist four chapters and most of what I'm going by is me skimming through the rest of the chapters. And most of what I've read is easily forgotten, mostly because it's full of cliches and randomness (I feel). It reads like a fanfics and this story doesn't impress as much as some fics that I've stumbled upon. I know I will never convince anyone to hop over to my side. Everything written on these boards is personal opinion. And if you enjoy this story, more power to you. I'll just sit back with my popcorn and watch this story hurdle towards earth like Operation British while voicing my dislike for it.
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Last edited by Eeni; 2012-07-07 at 15:33.
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Old 2012-07-07, 16:44   Link #4608
IkuzeMinna
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And what's with the people of Mars just letting Milliardo Peacecraft be their president? Did they all forget that Milliardo tried and almost succeeded in killing everyone on Earth a decade or so ago? Or did they just not care about it? Or perhaps "Milliardo" just showed up one day and said "I'm president of Mars now, F'in deal with it!"?
Dixneuf pulling a Korra... Now, that made my day.

But seriously, I'm hoping once we get through the Preventer 5 chapters we will get an explanation on this matter because the way it is right now, it just sounds stupid beyond belief.
And hopefully Sumizawa won't try to tie it in to Heero's and Zechs' strong/weak debate they had on Libra, what with the colonies relying on Milliardo and the Earth hating him and blah. The philosophical stuff they spouted in the series seldom made much sense without rephrasing and with what I've seen so far, I'm not trusting Sumizawa to be very coherent about this.

But trying to explain how things have come to be would be the right way. If there's one thing I completely agree with Tendou and Deacon and whoever else complained about it, it's that he needs to stop torpedoing the novel with useless background info and focus on the current story and events. So far, the flashbacks far outweigh the "main" story. Which is, again, poor writing style if you call the novel a continuation (even though the wackiness of the Peacecraft twin chapters' is enormously entertaining).

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Originally Posted by Tendou Souji View Post
Duo and Hilde had very little evidence supporting a long term relationship.
Duo and Hilde generally had little evidence supporting a romantic relationship. Likewise, they had little evidence supporting a nonexistent romantic relationship. In short, personal interpretation determines the nature of their relationship as far as the series is concerned. The only fact is that they had some sort of relationship.

By the way, taking Duo's level of concern for her when she escaped from Libra as proof for romantic feelings is moot; he flipped just as much (if not more) when Quatre sacrificed himself to get him and Wu Fei safely off the ground at the Singapore spaceport. Duo is generally very concerned about the people around him. Scenes like him asking Quatre to turn around so he could help the Maguanacs or catching Heavyarms when its arm is blown off by Virgos and asking Trowa in anything but a calm manner if he was okay prove this.

Quote:
BTW present Duo does act like he did during Wing.
Agreed. Aside from a few points that have been mentioned at length already, FT Duo is still a lot like his "old" self (jeez, horrid pun), like when he's messing with Kathy or offing guys trying to abduct his charge. And let's not forget the entertaining narrative, especially when it comes to describing the fairer sex.

But one thing's off:

Quote:
He and Wufei still bickered like they did at the base when they were prisoners.
I'm sorry but no. No, no, no, no, no. They never did that, that's fanfic bull. The way Wu Fei teased Duo (at the Singapore spaceport, I might add; they got along swimmingly on the moon) has absolutely nothing in common with the childish squabble described in FT.

I'm appalled that Sumizawa incorporated it, it's so generic. Okay, I can understand where it comes from if he turns Wu Fei into a sour old douche (not that he was much better in the series :P) but honestly, I've seen it in a million other animes. Coming up with something original isn't that hard, you know...

Anyway, nevermind the above. I'm simply miffed because it supports fanfic clichés. >_>

Quote:
They were too young to go through what they went through without any mental damage. That would make them completely unrealistic gary stus.
Haha, well yes, that's the point. The Wing pilots are all a bunch of Gary Stus. A very likeable bunch but Gary Stus nonetheless. I mean, seriously, you can't tell me half the stuff they pull is realistic.
So forgive me if I find it funny that people are trying to apply realism to them in form of PTSD or what have you.

Besides, it's not your job to make up excuses for changes in a character, it's the author's. Sumizawa might as well have written that, I dunno, Trowa had a sex change. You can explain it away somehow but if left like that it still has you go .

It's funny anyway that considering the amount of back story we got, he focused precious little on Wing's main characters. We know more about Sabrina and Katrina than what Quatre has been up to for example. Sequel? My foot.


By the way Tendou, could you put quotes in uh, quotes or something, so that they can be distinguished from your text next time you cite something? I'd appreciate it.
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Old 2012-07-07, 17:11   Link #4609
Sommer
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BTW What is Difx... whatever his name is point? Why the hell he want gold if he is already super rich?
Quote:
Originally Posted by IkuzeMinna View Post

Duo and Hilde had very little evidence supporting a long term relationship.
Duo and Hilde generally had little evidence supporting a romantic relationship. Likewise, they had little evidence supporting a nonexistent romantic relationship. In short, personal interpretation determines the nature of their relationship as far as the series is concerned. The only fact is that they had some sort of relationship.

By the way, taking Duo's level of concern for her when she escaped from Libra as proof for romantic feelings is moot; he flipped just as much (if not more) when Quatre sacrificed himself to get him and Wu Fei safely off the ground at the Singapore spaceport. Duo is generally very concerned about the people around him. Scenes like him asking Quatre to turn around so he could help the Maguanacs or catching Heavyarms when its arm is blown off by Virgos and asking Trowa in anything but a calm manner if he was okay prove this.
Thanks for explain my point better than I could
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Old 2012-07-07, 17:16   Link #4610
Rising Dragon
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BTW What is Difx... whatever his name is point? Why the hell he want gold if he is already super rich?
Probably the same reason the banks and the CEOs of America want money when they're already super rich: greed.
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Old 2012-07-07, 17:27   Link #4611
Sommer
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Probably the same reason the banks and the CEOs of America want money when they're already super rich: greed.
Yeah but you don´t see them taking hostages and threaten them with droping a Nuke ...
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Old 2012-07-07, 17:29   Link #4612
Rising Dragon
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Yeah but you don´t see them taking hostages and threaten them with droping a Nuke ...
Nukes? Nah. Hostages? They probably do, just in different ways. >.>
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Old 2012-07-07, 17:36   Link #4613
IkuzeMinna
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Thanks for explain my point better than I could
You're welcome? lol

Also, found a new pic. Is it just me or do they look younger than what they were in EW?

Spoiler for Dawww:


Definitely a better nurse than Trowa, huh Heero? xD
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Old 2012-07-07, 17:42   Link #4614
FalsePrime
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Originally Posted by IkuzeMinna View Post
You're welcome? lol

Also, found a new pic. Is it just me or do they look younger than what they were in EW?

Spoiler for Dawww:


Definitely a better nurse than Trowa, huh Heero? xD
Relena doesn't really look younger so much as at least to me it looks more like her origianl Anime hair. As it stands, the clothes, white shirt and suit skirt still give the feeling she had in EW.

They do look thinner/smaller but I would say the majority of art we have gotten from Heero has had this increased/decreased bodysize to further add on to the pretty boy look he originally had.
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Old 2012-07-07, 17:49   Link #4615
Ferhb
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Originally Posted by IkuzeMinna View Post
You're welcome? lol

Also, found a new pic. Is it just me or do they look younger than what they were in EW?

Spoiler for Dawww:


Definitely a better nurse than Trowa, huh Heero? xD
How cuuute!!! Where's that from? Preventer 5 part 2?

I think it's just Asagi's style... she makes them thinner. But they look more mature to me... and her art is beautiful, always. Reminds me of Blind Target.

She can make Relena cuter without making her look less Relena... she still has her confident expression.
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Old 2012-07-07, 17:57   Link #4616
IkuzeMinna
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A little too confident if you ask me. I wouldn't peel an apple with my eyes closed. xD
By the way, what is it with apples and sick people? It pops up in like every anime.

And yes, I think it's Preventer 5 part 2. I can't read Chinese but it's listed under that chapter title.

Oh well. *shurgs* I guess it's just me then.
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Old 2012-07-07, 18:05   Link #4617
Elo the Blue
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Originally Posted by IkuzeMinna View Post
I'm sorry but no. No, no, no, no, no. They never did that, that's fanfic bull. The way Wu Fei teased Duo (at the Singapore spaceport, I might add; they got along swimmingly on the moon) has absolutely nothing in common with the childish squabble described in FT.

I'm appalled that Sumizawa incorporated it, it's so generic. Okay, I can understand where it comes from if he turns Wu Fei into a sour old douche (not that he was much better in the series :P) but honestly, I've seen it in a million other animes. Coming up with something original isn't that hard, you know...

Anyway, nevermind the above. I'm simply miffed because it supports fanfic clichés. >_>
Amen. It was a minute nuance, but it was a bit puzzling.

Been away from the forum for a number of days. Thanks for the third GoL volume, Deacon. Much appreciated.
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Old 2012-07-07, 18:27   Link #4618
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A little too confident if you ask me. I wouldn't peel an apple with my eyes closed. xD
By the way, what is it with apples and sick people? It pops up in like every anime.

And yes, I think it's Preventer 5 part 2. I can't read Chinese but it's listed under that chapter title.

Oh well. *shurgs* I guess it's just me then.
I think she was trying to make a point. But yeah, don't close your eyes, you have a knife.

I can only think of Sakura peeling an apple while Sasuke's in the hospital... right before he and Naruto fight...
*starts crying at this point*
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Old 2012-07-07, 21:47   Link #4619
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That's because the picture is the colonial leader Heero Yuy and Sabrina/Katrina or whomever.
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戦っている人間には充実感がある。
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Perhaps the meaning of existence lies within their will to fight.
People feel a sense of accomplishment through battle.
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Old 2012-07-07, 23:03   Link #4620
Ferhb
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Are you sure, Deacon? Didn't he look stronger?

Her hair is also a little different... I think Katrina's hair is longer. Don't you think?

Spoiler for Comparison:
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