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Old 2010-07-01, 07:49   Link #101
janipani
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For me the harem animes are hardest to watch. I hate when I can recognise character types from the first glance. Why can't they create more variations to girls. Well I guess I just have accept that harem anime in general are purely meant for fan-service. It's a little sad though, because all romantic anime series are usually made on harem concept.. tsundere harem concept.
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Old 2010-07-01, 15:15   Link #102
GuidoHunter_Toki
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Originally Posted by Last Sinner View Post

I think the lessening of detail has allowed more variety in some ways. The very abstract, grim nature of the animation in The Tatami Galaxy is rather intriguing - it suits the series and its abnormal ways. It amplifies the feeling of emptiness and regret. It feels very adult - no wonder it's in the noitaminA time slot. House of Five Leaves comes from a manga-ka who used a very weird art style - drawing the characters in a very bizzare, macarbe way. But because the story is so twisted and devious, it suits the characters as they exist in a world with beautiful, detailed backgrounds, but they themselves are not really so, which is appropriate. Yet in Ristorante Paradiso, that artstyle became something that instilled a refined, antiquated atmosphere to go with the elderly spectacled men that Nicoletta worked around. Again - overt detail would not have worked here. Other examples I could forward is the mosaic clothes style of Gankutsuoh and the baroque, surreal vibe it invoked. Or the minimalist style of Shin Takahashi used in Saikano that suited its war-torn setting and the hell that came with it. And we might as well acknowledge moe series. They rely on less detail to invoke a younger, more innocent vibe to generate the atmosphere and feelings associated with moe.


There needs to be some straying from the norm - otherwise the status quo will prevail, anime won't evolve with changing times and the industry goes belly-up because people will grow tired of the same old, same old. Hmm, that's already happening, I think.
While I agree that straying from the norm is important and I love the variety that animation can bring I just can't escape my main complaints revolved around the execution of animation (movement).

I completely agree with you that in the form of style it is important to experiment and break from the norm (but make sure you execute it well). I just am of the opinion that anime's typical style presents little room for well executed animation techniques. Many times I find people don't make a distinction between the art and the animation (often thinking if something looks pretty it counts as good animation).

Now anime isn't restricted from achieving good animation, but I just hate not seeing many well executed techniques in anime. Whether it is mostly due to stylistic or budget reasons is up to debate, but it doesn't make me any less put off by it. I guess I'm just too nit-picky and tied to my old'fashioned beliefs in animation..

Now I don't think every anime lacks good animation techniques. To give an example of an anime that I think applies pretty darn good overall animation, is Mushishi.

Almost all of the character animation in Mushishi is animated on twos, as opposed to the standard threes for most TV anime (for those unfamiliar with animation production, this means that at a rate of 24 fps, Mushi-Shi uses 12 drawings per second as opposed to 8, which results in a slightly fuller, more fluid look to the animation). The mushi themselves are animated on ones, the full 24 fps. This in itself gives the series a cinematic feel rather than a television feel. It gives it a more fluid, almost traditonal animation feel. Also the animation stays consistent, unlike most animes I've seen. Sure there is a lot of panning shots (maybe to cut costs) but that happens to compliment some of the landscape shots, which are a big part of Mushishi. So yes limited animation techniques has it uses and I'm completely fine with them when executed in a pleasing manner. Problem is I just don't get that from many animes.


I won't get into your comments about the target audiences and crud, cause I basically agree with you on all fronts and that has nothing to do with my arguments on anime. So moving on I guess I'll go into my topic of emotions I've yet to get into. I'm probably going to get more polarizing opinions on what I'm about to type, but anyways onto it....



Facial expressions. Cartoon characters are usually based off of exaggerated caricatures of real life, and so they often use very exaggerated facial expressions. Of course, the type of expressions used varies greatly from Anime and Traditional animation. These expressions are very important because they add emotions to the characters,
which makes the animation seem even more life-like. Some anime fans will probably contend that anime has more facial expressions than Western animation. I do not see any weight to this theory. There are American cartoons where hundreds of expressions are used. In fact, there are almost an infinite variation of expressions that can be used to give slightly different effects in American cartoons. This is because of the curve-based drawing method used in American animation. On the other hand, most animes only contain a small set of facial expressions. These may include a single expression for the emotions of happiness, shock, anger, and sadness. Other times, anime characters will
not display any emotion at all. However, these expressions do have a tendency to stand out and can sometimes leave lasting impressions on the viewer. It's also true that some of them are very extreme/exaggerated. I suppose in some ways this is a benefit to the emotional element of anime, but in no way do I see anime capable of having more facial expressions than traditional animation. Another problem with anime is that changes of facial expressions tend to look a lot more choppy than they do in Western animation.

Body posture can also be important in showing emotions. Subtle posture of a character can show whether that character is relaxed, stressed, shy, brave, etc. Traditional animators usually do a pretty good job of incorporating this idea in their animations. This seems rarely found in anime (at least to me). Typically the onyl way you can tell an anime character's emotions is by reading their facial expression.
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Old 2010-07-01, 15:22   Link #103
Anime Queen
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I don't like anime that centers on mecha because robots don't really interest me that much.
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Old 2010-07-02, 17:39   Link #104
Vantek
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One more thing that was triggered by argument on Elfen Lied in the "anime you hate but everyone else loves"...

When murderers of innocent people are forgiven because they had a tough childhood or whatever. LMFAO. What a pinnacle of morality. It's OK to murder if your childhood sucked! No way. Some things are unforgivable.
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Old 2010-07-02, 17:48   Link #105
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Probably been hammer to death but...overused conventions in harem and romantic comedies. They seem to be the easiest genres to screw up in anime form.
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Old 2010-07-02, 18:11   Link #106
CeDeR
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moeness, fan service and cliches.
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Old 2010-07-02, 18:27   Link #107
Chrisjon
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Originally Posted by Vantek View Post
One more thing that was triggered by argument on Elfen Lied in the "anime you hate but everyone else loves"...

When murderers of innocent people are forgiven because they had a tough childhood or whatever. LMFAO. What a pinnacle of morality. It's OK to murder if your childhood sucked! No way. Some things are unforgivable.
Spoiler for Elfen Lied Spoilers:

Anyways. A small thing that I hate that happens quite a bit in anime is when someone shoots a giant laser beam or a powerful impact occurs it is replayed three times normally at different angles for a more awe inspiring effect. It just doesn't go over well with me.

I also almost always hate harem stories.
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Old 2010-07-02, 20:44   Link #108
klare
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- still frames (like the ones in Lodoss TV)
- anime-original ending (most are done badly)
- harem story
- indecisive guys
- fan service focused
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Old 2010-07-02, 22:13   Link #109
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Speaking of fanservice, I ahte how some manga are over the top with the fanservice and some even go further to amke a superpower to get info of a person by stealing their underwear. I hate that and it gets annoying over time especially with manga like Negima.
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Old 2010-07-03, 01:44   Link #110
LMF
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Fillers and overusage of those big heads.
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Old 2010-07-03, 01:57   Link #111
Elo the Blue
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- Stock footage
- Inordinate amount of fan service
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Old 2010-07-03, 05:50   Link #112
ttdestroy
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Prolly been mentioned, but main characters who are whiners. I don't mind for the first few episodes of the show, but after 20 friggin episodes?
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Old 2010-07-03, 12:01   Link #113
kitten320
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Originally Posted by Vantek View Post
One more thing that was triggered by argument on Elfen Lied in the "anime you hate but everyone else loves"...

When murderers of innocent people are forgiven because they had a tough childhood or whatever. LMFAO. What a pinnacle of morality. It's OK to murder if your childhood sucked! No way. Some things are unforgivable.
That depends on the person, some people don't forgive stuff like this.

Some of the murderers are unstable, they don't control their actions much. Some people are killed by accident.

If bring Lucy to this topic, yes some of her murders were unforgivable but some were deserved.



Ah, what I can add to my list is some body proportions... it took me ages before I was able to Code Geass and it took half of season if not more before I got used to it.
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Old 2010-07-03, 12:27   Link #114
Vantek
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This is in no way limited to Elfen Lied, otherwise I wouldn't have brought it to this thread. Another example fresh in my memory is the Shiff in Blood+. They went around slaughtering the good guys and then the main charachter's brother was like "they are not our enemies please don't hurt them!" while they were killing his own damn comrades. That was not even the whole reason why the whole ordeal sucked but it does illustrate the typical anime stock theme I have a problem with. Another one I can think off the top of my head is Hunter X Hunter where Killua murdered some random good guy after his brother said nasty things to him, and everyone acted like he had pooped on the carpet rather than murdered a human being for no apparent reason. In my eyes Elfen Lied falls right into the same category with these.

I guess a connected issue is that in anime people other than the main charachters are often depicted as equal in significance with flies and ants. If something is done to one of the main charachters, it's unfogivable and everything, but if the exact same thing happens to a side charachter (often commited by one of the main charachters), noone gives a shit.
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Old 2010-07-03, 14:56   Link #115
synaesthetic
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The problem with Elfen Lied is, unlike its manga predecessor, it has no plot and Lucy/Nyu is portrayed more as a victim and an anti-hero than the Villain Protagonist and Complete Monster she really is.
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Old 2010-07-05, 16:59   Link #116
Kaze
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Originally Posted by CeDeR View Post
moeness, fan service and cliches.
This is the main reason why I don't watch much anime anymore these days, everything is just smack full of this.
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Old 2010-07-05, 17:08   Link #117
qwertqwert8989
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I've always thought Elfen Lied was a good example of a mildly interesting premise which was otaku-ized into utter garbage. Hence the pointless fanservice, idiotic love triangle, cutesy moron character (Nyu), slightly tweaked cat-ear fetish, etc.

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This is the main reason why I don't watch much anime anymore these days, everything is just smack full of this.
Just avoid otaku shows, they're not particularly hard to spot. They're made for a certain audience (eg, the kind who sit around making up pet nicknames for exposed skin under skirts), so I don't know why you'd expect anything more. Both Noitamina shows this season were excellent. You have to know where to look.

Last edited by qwertqwert8989; 2010-07-05 at 18:34.
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Old 2010-07-05, 17:42   Link #118
Kaze
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Originally Posted by qwertqwert8989 View Post
Just avoid otaku shows, they're not particularly hard to spot. They're made for a certain audience (eg, the kind who sit around making up pet nicknames for exposed skin under skirts), so I don't know why you'd expect anything more. Both Noitamina shows this season were excellent. You have to know where to look.
I know, main example of this would be K-on, which is just smacked with it.
(No offense to people who watch it, I'm just saying it's not for me)

I know how to stay away from shows like it.

It's just that after Code Geass ended, and now with FMA (manga + Anime) has ended, there isn't really anything there that fills the gap.

Eventually something might come up though, time will tell.
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Old 2010-07-05, 18:04   Link #119
Vexx
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It is amazing how many good series one misses when they make sweeping generalizations about a genre without occasionally taking a look to see if something good has floated to the top. But I guess it makes life simpler...
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Old 2010-07-05, 18:24   Link #120
qwertqwert8989
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Unfortunately, I doubt most people have the time to individually sample every single anime series in existence to make sure they haven't missed giving pet anime X a chance. Observing trends and patterns within anime aimed at particular audiences is a smart and useful thing to do when it comes to first impressions and deciding what will most likely appeal to you. Exceptions are nice, but that's what they are - exceptions.
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