AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Related Topics > General Anime

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2010-07-05, 18:25   Link #121
Last Sinner
Screw The Rules
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Summoner's Rift
Age: 32
Send a message via MSN to Last Sinner
Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
portrayed more as a victim and an anti-hero than the Villain Protagonist and Complete Monster she really is.
The point of Elfen Lied was to explore the terrible things people do to each other, the evil that resides within all people and how a monster can be created by the actions of others. Symapthy is optional. I never got victim vibes from Lucy - yes, other people triggered her into becoming what she became. It was still her choice to do so, though.

I get where you're coming from, though. Strange thing is, I'd use those words as some of the reasons why I couldn't handle Baccano and Durarara. (No offense intended, I know you really like those series. Each to their own) I felt like I was going to hell for watching them. I still feel the scars.

Last edited by Last Sinner; 2010-07-05 at 18:51.
Last Sinner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-05, 21:45   Link #122
Guernsey
The GAP Man
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 26
Send a message via AIM to Guernsey Send a message via MSN to Guernsey Send a message via Yahoo to Guernsey
I hate how most shonen heroes overcome their enemies just by being "Awesome" or "Courageous" but most of all, they have to complete morons on top of it. While some shonen subvert this, mostof the time they need to be idiots in order to be heroes.
__________________
Guernsey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-05, 21:53   Link #123
Terrestrial Dream
勇者
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Tesla Leicht Institute
Age: 24
If I have to pick one it would be from a cliche from sport genre. Every time when a player does something special or a technique those side characters that no one cares shout "its the xxx move!". Every time I hear that it annoys me a lot.

Other things that I rather dislike would be perfection. I f**king hate perfect characters and a character with a perfect family. Really make me want to go and ruin their lives .
__________________
Terrestrial Dream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-05, 21:57   Link #124
Last Sinner
Screw The Rules
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Summoner's Rift
Age: 32
Send a message via MSN to Last Sinner
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream View Post
Other things that I rather dislike would be perfection. I f**king hate perfect characters and a character with a perfect family. Really make me want to go and ruin their lives .
I think the term for them is Mary Sue?

That's a normal reaction. Perfect characters lack the ability to instill tension/conflict and the things that interest people.
Last Sinner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-05, 22:41   Link #125
Terrestrial Dream
勇者
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Tesla Leicht Institute
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Last Sinner View Post
I think the term for them is Mary Sue?

That's a normal reaction. Perfect characters lack the ability to instill tension/conflict and the things that interest people.
Seems to be correct term.
Though on other hand if the perfect characters are ruined or crushed in the beginning I think it has the potential to be more interesting than a character who is already flawed. But until something like happens I detest them.
__________________
Terrestrial Dream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-06, 13:35   Link #126
kitten320
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Age: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guernsey View Post
I hate how most shonen heroes overcome their enemies just by being "Awesome" or "Courageous" but most of all, they have to complete morons on top of it. While some shonen subvert this, mostof the time they need to be idiots in order to be heroes.
Yeh. it seriously gives wrong mpression about heroes.

I can understand at one point why they do it, like show that even the dumb one can achieve something but it is done in completly wrong way.

If he/she was an idiot for 12 or more years, how is it possible for them sudenly become something bigger?

If it was slower paced, it would make much more sence.
__________________
kitten320 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-06, 13:39   Link #127
Archon_Wing
Sisyphean Crusader
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Making people too mad to respond
Age: 30
Send a message via MSN to Archon_Wing
Oh yea, now that I think about it...

"The Dangerous forbidden technique" that is so dangerous it'll kill you, or you can't use it more than x amount of times. Naturally, this never matters. It's usually just to have people worrying and shouting NOOOO DONT DO IT to waste our time.

Bonus points if this technique is never seen or heard of again. This applies to technology in scifi stories.
__________________
God damn, there's so much bad fanservice out there. Touch me and I'll beat the crap out of you!
You are about to move into areas of the anime industry with wonders you cannot possibly imagine. And terrors to freeze your soul.

Avatar and Sig courtesy of TheEroKing
Guild Wars 2 SN: ArchonWing.9480 (Stormbluff Isle)
MyAnimeList || Reviews
Archon_Wing is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-06, 13:43   Link #128
kitten320
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Age: 23
^Ah yeh that's too.
Why bother to create one at all or tell about it to anyone?


Also a very comon thing in shonen when characters start to openly explain secrets behind their technique to the enemy who usually doesn't make a use out of the given information.
__________________
kitten320 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-06, 17:00   Link #129
Vantek
Asleep Being
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Oh yea, now that I think about it...

"The Dangerous forbidden technique" that is so dangerous it'll kill you, or you can't use it more than x amount of times.
Haha, I actually like this theme a lot. It is often misused obviously, but the idea of sacrificing your life or well-being to "defeat the bad guys" is very fascinating to me. As is using a limited amount of resource, which creates a strategic dilemma.
Vantek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-06, 18:08   Link #130
felix
sleepyhead
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: event horizon
series haters

Oh you all have met at least one! If you've been on the forum for some time, its statistically impossible to not have seen at least one!! You know who I speak of. Its those self centered bastards who have nothing better to do with their lives then come each week and explain to you why YOU should not be having fun. Or why, YOU having fun is WRONG! Or, implying as such.

Now, I'm all for having a open mind and accepting simple opinions and criticism in equal measure. But what I see is not criticism, it is narcissism. Criticism would suggest a better way. Criticism would also create a perspective; a complete alternative envision of the work. That's why [fundamentally] criticism was never considered negative (or necessarily negative). Criticism [by definition] may lack any mention of so called flaws, and the writeup will still be considered criticism. This is why its always good to accept criticism for your work. And also why criticism can easily help improve your work.

Contrary to popular misconception, there's no hate in criticism. Nor is there any use for it in criticism.

But this is the internet. And hate there is! And hate spreads. After all its so much easier to whine then it is to accept what is given. Yes, its so much easier to say "car exhausts are bad!" then it is to come with some alternative creative solution! But hey car exhausts are bad right, since pollution is bad! So my argument is 100% sound and foolproof, right? Of course its WRONG. But who the heck is capable of explaining to them their argument is utter nonsense [to begin with] and goes nowhere. Nobody, that's who! I've affectionately have come to regard these uneducated selfish posts as a "reverse-spoiler," in other words a spoiler which instead of spoiling the future events, instead spoil events [and along with them development] that has come to pass.

Lets take K-on. K-on is about Yui and co and how they go from uneventful school life to being a band. Yes, there's no useless male lead. There's no useless pantsu-shots, there's no training; not the cliche "learn it yourself expert-hood in 3 days" anyway. Heck there are plenty of character better then them at what they are trying to do. The characters don't save the world. The characters don't die either. The characters also don't learn any cliche line by the end, and as for lessons in life, everything there is they already know from the get go. And even so. Yui [and the others] get into music, get a guitar, learn to take care of a guitar and manages to learn enough on how to play one to just barely make it though a live performance. They manage to face off numerous real life headaches such as logistics, schedules, school [to name just a few of their numerous fears] and all in all just keeping everything together (barely). While at the same time, dealing with each characters personal issues (as best they can). And even though all that the show still keeping true to the "laid back comedy" aspects; which yes it may not be the slap stick 5 second chibi or over-exaggeration moment we're used to these days, but it sure as hell leaves a nice impression on you (unlike most cheap humor, that sacrifices and seriousness in the show).

So what do people do when you have a show that's not plot-holed cheeze? Why they invent new cursewords of course! In the case of K-on [and others] the new magic word of the year is "moeblob" or "moe show." And whats the crime? Apparently "cute girls doing cute things" is the crime. As if, in the past 20 damn years there haven't been ANY cute girls doing cute things! But I guess the "laws of the internet," like normal laws, only look forward (even when they are backwards). And so, with the advent of new methods [and stupidity], the troll war effort moves on.
__________________
felix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-06, 19:12   Link #131
Reckoner
Bittersweet Distractor
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Santa Barbara
Age: 22
But... But... I like to rag on K-ON! fans... It's my very nature!

I'd be one of those so called narcissists, but dang, everyone is sometimes.

Lately I've been compelled to post relentlessly in the Evangelion Rebuild thread simply to rage. I been there so much over the past months it's starting to scare me.
Reckoner is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-06, 19:21   Link #132
Archon_Wing
Sisyphean Crusader
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Making people too mad to respond
Age: 30
Send a message via MSN to Archon_Wing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vantek View Post
Haha, I actually like this theme a lot. It is often misused obviously, but the idea of sacrificing your life or well-being to "defeat the bad guys" is very fascinating to me. As is using a limited amount of resource, which creates a strategic dilemma.
Yea, it's just so rare that I see anything done right. Then about 20 episodes later, I'd be like "hey, this would come in handy now!"


Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Lately I've been compelled to post relentlessly in the Evangelion Rebuild thread simply to rage. I been there so much over the past months it's starting to scare me.
It's ok, it's entertaining to me-- maybe even more so than the movie. j/k... kinda.

edit: I mean the discussions
__________________
God damn, there's so much bad fanservice out there. Touch me and I'll beat the crap out of you!
You are about to move into areas of the anime industry with wonders you cannot possibly imagine. And terrors to freeze your soul.

Avatar and Sig courtesy of TheEroKing
Guild Wars 2 SN: ArchonWing.9480 (Stormbluff Isle)
MyAnimeList || Reviews

Last edited by Archon_Wing; 2010-07-06 at 19:36.
Archon_Wing is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-07, 02:23   Link #133
0utf0xZer0
Pretentious moe scholar
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post
So what do people do when you have a show that's not plot-holed cheeze? Why they invent new cursewords of course! In the case of K-on [and others] the new magic word of the year is "moeblob" or "moe show." And whats the crime? Apparently "cute girls doing cute things" is the crime. As if, in the past 20 damn years there haven't been ANY cute girls doing cute things! But I guess the "laws of the internet," like normal laws, only look forward (even when they are backwards). And so, with the advent of new methods [and stupidity], the troll war effort moves on.
I remember the term "moeblob" being thrown around way before K-On! came about. K-On! just happens to be the moe hater's scapegoat for moe in general, which seems as ridiculous to me as the practice of scapegoating as a whole but human history tells me that practice isn't going away anytime soon.

It probably didn't help that the show got popular with the "I have to watch it because it's a big title even though I don't like this kind of show" crowd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
But... But... I like to rag on K-ON! fans... It's my very nature!

I'd be one of those so called narcissists, but dang, everyone is sometimes.

Lately I've been compelled to post relentlessly in the Evangelion Rebuild thread simply to rage. I been there so much over the past months it's starting to scare me.
I have a different problem - I never really "rage" unless I feel I or a group I belong to is being misrepresented, but when something I like is criticized I feel compelled to justify my opinion, usually with an extremely well thought out response that will take me a long time (often hours) to write. I usually end up writing such a reply even if I don't want to because I know I'll end up thinking up justifications even if I try not to.

While I believe that the response I've written in response to criticisms have helped me develop really good writing and argumentation skills, I've find myself less and less willing to read potentially "hot" threads over the years - when you feel compelled to write responses that take a couple hours to think up, it takes up an absolutely ridiculous amount of time, which between getting into third and fourth year university courses and getting a girlfriend, I no longer have. Trust me, there's few things that invoke self-loathing like "I can't ask my girlfriend out this weekend because I was arguing on the internet and need to catch up on coursework."
__________________

Signature courtesy of Ganbaru.
0utf0xZer0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-07, 02:34   Link #134
raduccio
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guernsey View Post
I hate how most shonen heroes overcome their enemies just by being "Awesome" or "Courageous" but most of all, they have to complete morons on top of it. While some shonen subvert this, mostof the time they need to be idiots in order to be heroes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post
series haters
Those two and the fact that good shows aren't finished to leave the door open for another season... that never comes because sales aren't so good.
raduccio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-07, 02:57   Link #135
Konakaga
Yuri Moderator
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: FL, USA
Age: 26
Send a message via AIM to Konakaga Send a message via Skype™ to Konakaga
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
One thing I hate about anime with multiple love interests is that frequently the non-winners (or perhaps winners depending on your opinion) never go on to find anyone else-- it's rare that they even get interested in anyone else. Or maybe it happens off screen, but it sucks regardless.
I really can't say I hate much about anime as series/movies/OVAs, but this is very very good point, and sadly true point in a lot of series D:.
__________________
Haruka & Yuu - Sakura TrickAvatar by Auxilism
Sig by TheEroKing
MAL(KagamiHiiragi)
Konakaga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-07, 07:26   Link #136
Triple_R
Center Attraction
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 32
Send a message via AIM to Triple_R
I think that K-On! gets a lot of hate because its pure, 100%, concentrated moe.

That is the entire show, more or less.

Now, I'm not saying that to be critical, as I myself tend to like moe.

But I'm saying it because, for the moe haters, this show has nothing that can appeal to them. The moe hater really would be better off simply not watching it.

Even Clannad, for example, has its non-moe scenes. Scenes, for example, of Tomoya joking around with Sunohara. For the moe hater, these scenes can provide welcomed breaks from the moe-ness.

But K-On! is just pure moe from start to finish.


One thing I think that we anime fans need to come to grips with is that while we're all anime fans, our tastes and interests beyond that can wildly diverge.

Just because an anime series becomes a hit, or a cult classic, doesn't mean that every anime fan will like it, or even that every anime fan should like it. It's not so much as Sturgeon's Law is correct, it's that the personal tastes of many individual people will render 90% of shows unappealing to them. Those 90% of shows aren't necessarily crap, as much as they're simply not for everybody.

As the old saying goes, there's no accounting for taste.
__________________

Last edited by Triple_R; 2010-07-07 at 07:55.
Triple_R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-07, 11:07   Link #137
felix
sleepyhead
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: event horizon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I think that K-On! gets a lot of hate because its pure, 100%, concentrated moe.

That is the entire show, more or less.

Now, I'm not saying that to be critical, as I myself tend to like moe.

But I'm saying it because, for the moe haters, this show has nothing that can appeal to them. The moe hater really would be better off simply not watching it.

Even Clannad, for example, has its non-moe scenes. Scenes, for example, of Tomoya joking around with Sunohara. For the moe hater, these scenes can provide welcomed breaks from the moe-ness.

But K-On! is just pure moe from start to finish.
Does your vocabulary actually have other words besides moe? Contrary to your flawed reasoning the characters actually talk in the show (wow, surprise!). You'll have known dialog is 90% of what the show is all about if you actually bothered watching it (which I'm guessing you didn't; beyond 1 episode or something anyway). Clannad had Tomoya, K-on has every damn character in the show, as far as humor goes. Sorry but no sane studio actually gives a damn about material for people who blatantly hate the show! I fail to see the point you're trying to make besides excuses for jerking off about it more.

You don't even have a clear definition of the word "moe." I mean how could you, the word itself is by definition a "inexpressible" feeling. Yet here you are waving it around to support your hate this, hate that, hate everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
One thing I think that we anime fans need to come to grips with is that while we're all anime fans, our tastes and interests beyond that can wildly diverge.

Just because an anime series becomes a hit, or a cult classic, doesn't mean that every anime fan will like it, or even that every anime fan should like it. It's not so much as Sturgeon's Law is correct, it's that the personal tastes of many individual people will render 90% of shows unappealing to them. Those 90% of shows aren't necessarily crap, as much as they're simply not for everybody.

As the old saying goes, there's no accounting for taste.
Funny how people who use the word "taste" are pretty much the only ones to actually blindly use it, as well as preach about "their superior taste" to others. I don't understand all this preaching to K-on fans. Are we the ones who go out of our way to go to sections of other anime and ditch on them? When the heck has anyone even labeled K-on some masterpiece or something (like Suzumiya Haruhi, Legened of the Galactic Heroes, Ghost in the Shell have). Heck you even have borderline shows like Qwaser and Queen's Blade, and tons of crappy shows out there I can't even begin to count, and yet they don't get this much crap.
__________________
felix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-07, 11:32   Link #138
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 56
Quote:
Heck you even have borderline shows like Qwaser and Queen's Blade, and tons of crappy shows out there I can't even begin to count, and yet they don't get this much crap.
Ah, you noticed.
Well, we could go into a long discourse about the twisted definition of "manly" some have but frankly its tough to want to waste time with people who don't even have a good definition of that which they hate
__________________
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-07, 12:43   Link #139
0utf0xZer0
Pretentious moe scholar
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post
Does your vocabulary actually have other words besides moe? Contrary to your flawed reasoning the characters actually talk in the show (wow, surprise!). You'll have known dialog is 90% of what the show is all about if you actually bothered watching it (which I'm guessing you didn't; beyond 1 episode or something anyway). Clannad had Tomoya, K-on has every damn character in the show, as far as humor goes. Sorry but no sane studio actually gives a damn about material for people who blatantly hate the show! I fail to see the point you're trying to make besides excuses for jerking off about it more.

You don't even have a clear definition of the word "moe." I mean how could you, the word itself is by definition a "inexpressible" feeling. Yet here you are waving it around to support your hate this, hate that, hate everything.

Funny how people who use the word "taste" are pretty much the only ones to actually blindly use it, as well as preach about "their superior taste" to others. I don't understand all this preaching to K-on fans. Are we the ones who go out of our way to go to sections of other anime and ditch on them? When the heck has anyone even labeled K-on some masterpiece or something (like Suzumiya Haruhi, Legened of the Galactic Heroes, Ghost in the Shell have). Heck you even have borderline shows like Qwaser and Queen's Blade, and tons of crappy shows out there I can't even begin to count, and yet they don't get this much crap.
Eh, normally I'm pretty sympathetic to fans of shows like K-On! since I am one myself but if that kind of post can set you off, you really do need to cool it a bit. That was not a hate post and for the record, Triple_R has seen K-On! and from what I remember kind of liked it.

Yes, K-On! does have a little more going for it than just the moe factor (especially in season 2), but let's not mince words here: the moe in the show is laid on so thick that it's impossible to ignore.
__________________

Signature courtesy of Ganbaru.
0utf0xZer0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-07, 12:56   Link #140
Reckoner
Bittersweet Distractor
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Santa Barbara
Age: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post
Does your vocabulary actually have other words besides moe? Contrary to your flawed reasoning the characters actually talk in the show (wow, surprise!). You'll have known dialog is 90% of what the show is all about if you actually bothered watching it (which I'm guessing you didn't; beyond 1 episode or something anyway). Clannad had Tomoya, K-on has every damn character in the show, as far as humor goes. Sorry but no sane studio actually gives a damn about material for people who blatantly hate the show! I fail to see the point you're trying to make besides excuses for jerking off about it more.

You don't even have a clear definition of the word "moe." I mean how could you, the word itself is by definition a "inexpressible" feeling. Yet here you are waving it around to support your hate this, hate that, hate everything.

Funny how people who use the word "taste" are pretty much the only ones to actually blindly use it, as well as preach about "their superior taste" to others. I don't understand all this preaching to K-on fans. Are we the ones who go out of our way to go to sections of other anime and ditch on them? When the heck has anyone even labeled K-on some masterpiece or something (like Suzumiya Haruhi, Legened of the Galactic Heroes, Ghost in the Shell have). Heck you even have borderline shows like Qwaser and Queen's Blade, and tons of crappy shows out there I can't even begin to count, and yet they don't get this much crap.
You have quite a bit of misdirected rage here.

Look, it's no mystery that K-ON! is a moe show. There is hardly anything left in the show to appeal to a broader audience without the moe. Yeah we can rustle and play tug-of-war with the definition for pages and pages, but that is quite irrelevant.

Most people who have experience with so called "moe" in shows are able to get a general feeling of what makes a moe show, and K-ON! is in general a moe show. Have we finally established that and put that to bed? Good.

Anyhow, we already know there is proper edict in having discussions, and that everyone should realize we all really do have different opinions and that insulting people for merely telling their honest opinion of a show is just not acceptable on a forum such as this. But in reality we would not be here on a forum if we were not trying to prove the worth of our opinion to others and find others who share their opinion. You have to have a degree of narcissism when you post here in an attempt to defend your opinion of what is supposedly a form of art.

For those who post a lot, episode to episode, whether you LIKE the show or HATE the show, you just express the self-centered aspect of one's self that really everyone has whether they admit it or not. We always just tend to take more notice of the negatives in life.
Reckoner is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:04.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
We use Silk.